I know I'm better one-to-one but twice this week I've had an unpleasant experience in two group social settings.

I'm with a bunch of people. Nobody is making eye contact with me, just each other. They're addressing their comments to one another and not to me. When I try to make a comment, I'm interrupted a couple words in by someone else who is eager to speak. No one helps out by asking what I was going to say. I gradually realize I'm not really part of the discussion, just taking up space at the table.

I know it's not all about me and that not everyone in the world is going to find me interesting but it's hard not to take it personally. The second time it happened, I ended up excusing myself and leaving early.

It seems like a lot of people naturally have some "magic" that holds other people's attention and makes social interaction smoother, whereas for whatever reason, I'm born without it.

Have others had that experience? What do you do? Sit back and blend into the woodwork? Be more forceful or assertive (which carries its own risks)? Leave? Any tips for being at the center of the social bazaar instead of off on the edge?

It really is getting to bother me. I hate feeling invisible.

Same problem. I avoid social groups and instead opt for one on one time with people. Its much better for me. Its ok if you don't do well in groups. Try more one on one settings and see how you do in those.

Me too - I hate groups. But that's mainly for two reasons: a) I have Asperger's, which makes it more difficult for me to socialise; and b) I spent my entire life being forced to hang out with girls and later women. They're lovely, but I don't understand them (particularly the way they socialise) and I can't relate to them.

That's been one of my big trans issues: as a child I was forcibly separated from my natural social group and was made to socialise with people I didn't understand and to whom I couldn't relate.

I try to avoid groups where I can.

Yes

There isn't a clearcut answer.  Someone in the group has to be the quietest person (which may or may not work for your personality), but it is important that the group is still able to pay attention when appropriate.  If you have something of extra value to contribute to a conversation (it may be a topic or field you have more education or experience with than the rest of the group), and you are interrupted or broadly ignored in favor of what other people have to say, I think you want to leave due to a lack of respect.

You may also find you want to talk to people in smaller groups or on an individual basis, so you might see if it is possible to group off in that way.  Even if you are in a larger group, you might be able to address someone individually (especially if you have something to say that is relevant specifically to the individual) while another conversation is going on.

Sometimes you just have to bide your time, but a part of conversation is paying attention to the conversation -- if it is something interesting, you will probably find an opportunity to engage at some point, but if it is something you have a low connection to and a low interest in, it is easier to just leave than to redirect the conversation to something you find more relatable.  Take your chances with another group.

I have that problem when it is a group made up entirely of straight males. Since I pretty much have nothing in common with them, I am not part of the conversation. It changes if there is at least one other woman in the group. The only time a group of straight men will include me is when at least one of them is hitting on me.

Well, I think it would help if we understood the situation a little more. Are you talking about work? Another type of group? Are you presenting as a woman or in DRAB at the group in question?

I don't do well in groups either, Suzy... I think, in part, because I'm a bit retiring and - while I reckon I could yell "Fire!" loud enough, if prescribed - tend to internally weigh whether or not what I have to say is important... and generally finding it not.

I'm also just weird, and when I do say something it doesn't seem to find a target very often... but that's okay: keeping one's self entertained is three-quarters of the battle. 

As for tips? Well... they say that folks like talking about themselves, so finding ways to draw on that might help. I know that there are also books on how to have a more "winning personality" (or some such), and books are always my go-to for learning something new... sometimes they're helpful, sometimes they're b.s. (usually a little of both).

I hope you don't let it get you down too much - no doubt it can be overcome, but it will probably take some effort and practice.

My Best - Sadie

Quote from: Kaelin on March 15, 2013, 11:24:09 AM
There isn't a clearcut answer.  Someone in the group has to be the quietest person (which may or may not work for your personality), but it is important that the group is still able to pay attention when appropriate.  If you have something of extra value to contribute to a conversation (it may be a topic or field you have more education or experience with than the rest of the group), and you are interrupted or broadly ignored in favor of what other people have to say, I think you want to leave due to a lack of respect.

You may also find you want to talk to people in smaller groups or on an individual basis, so you might see if it is possible to group off in that way.  Even if you are in a larger group, you might be able to address someone individually (especially if you have something to say that is relevant specifically to the individual) while another conversation is going on.

Sometimes you just have to bide your time, but a part of conversation is paying attention to the conversation -- if it is something interesting, you will probably find an opportunity to engage at some point, but if it is something you have a low connection to and a low interest in, it is easier to just leave than to redirect the conversation to something you find more relatable.  Take your chances with another group.

Good answer!

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on March 15, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
Well, I think it would help if we understood the situation a little more. Are you talking about work? Another type of group? Are you presenting as a woman or in DRAB at the group in question?

Presenting female in both cases.

First case, my divorced/separated support group, a mixed group of straight cis males and females and me (didn't self-identify, but don't know how well I pass). Moderated by a professional social worker.

Second case, my feminist reading group. A group of cis (more or less), lesbian and bisexual females. They know I'm trans, but in the few months since I've joined the group, they've never before treated me or the other trans woman who periodically comes like any kind of an outsider.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 15, 2013, 11:42:08 AM

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on March 15, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
Well, I think it would help if we understood the situation a little more. Are you talking about work? Another type of group? Are you presenting as a woman or in DRAB at the group in question?

Presenting female in both cases.

First case, my divorced/separated support group, a mixed group of straight cis males and females and me (didn't self-identify, but don't know how well I pass). Moderated by a professional social worker.

Well, as stated above, it's very common for females to be ignored in mixed groups. Even if you're not passing, the fact you're presenting female may 'help this along'.

QuoteSecond case, my feminist reading group. A group of cis (more or less), lesbian and bisexual females. They know I'm trans, but in the few months since I've joined the group, they've never before treated me or the other trans woman who periodically comes like any kind of an outsider.

Since you haven't felt like an outsider before here, I wouldn't read too much into it at this group yet. We all have our 'off' days.

In either case, confidence is the key. It sucks that females have to exude a lot more of it to be taken seriously than a guy would, but that's how it goes. Believe in your right to be there and in what you're saying. Just know that you may have to try a few times - both being female and being trans may work against you. Even in trans friendly circles, especially feminist lesbian ones (or so I hear), much more weight is given to transmasculine over transfeminine people.

Just consider it as you have to work to have your voice heard just like any other woman. It's not about you personally. Good luck hon!