When I was a teenager global warming was called pollution and what was thought to be the cause was muscle cars and 2 stroke bikes.The manufacturers stopped making them and the pollution stayed!

Now you're just trolling me Ozma ;p !

Quote from: monica.soto on February 14, 2013, 06:42:10 AM
Now you're just trolling me Ozma ;p !

huh? in what way? I'm just trying to make a point that climate change is only seen in hindsight, in the rear view mirror... to predict the future? I think you have to say 'I don't know'.  it's entirely possible global temp decreases the next 20 years! we don't know! all claims (specifically about the dangers of climate change) we make are in theory, and there is nothing wrong with that... until you start treating it as fact, ridicule those are sceptical, and demand action... I think it would be better if we suggested action, that we teach people to care :-) don't legislate, educate! and if people don't care? you can't force them to! don't use coercion and violence to force us to invest in clean energy, to cut emissions... if people don't care, they don't care... is it sad? sure, but that means you should work harder to convince people of your cause! without coercion, guilt, or fear.  play of positive emotions, not negative ones.

does that mean we affect climate? maybe... but to make that claim with absolute certainty? ugh... reminds me of the apocalypse/rapture trend... people are so narcissistic that they imagine the world will end in their lifetime? that Jesus will come save them? I mean in the course how long the planet has existed... we are less than a blink of an eye. to think our existence is any more important than others? narcissism.

again... I'm not denying or agreeing... just trying to let everyone know that its OK to say 'I don't know' as a position on this topic.  that doesn't mean you shouldn't encourage people to bike, or encourage them to litter...

plus, anytime people start pointing fingers, especially the federal gov... it throws a red flag for me.  I mean who really benefits the most, politically, from human climate change being real? our rulers and masters known as politicians who will punish us for it!

and one last point... CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION!

I thought you were replying the evolution question with the "I don't know". I may come off a little dismissive and I do admit sometimes I can be rude, but in no way do I not think you are a smart woman. Your dabbling into politics, philosophy and science is the sign of  an inquisitive mind who doesn't take anything for granted and for what it's worth I really admire that in a person.

Yes you're allowed to be skeptical,  and being skeptical is a good quality to have, but the thing is, my dear Ozma, that most of what passes as climate change denial science is bunk, financed by corporations whose bottom line depends on stricter pollution laws and carbon emission taxes not going into effect.

You make an excellent point on the solution is education and not legislation. let me share some up to date links:

http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/11/15/why-climate-deniers-have-no-credibility-science-one-pie-chart

So there it is, The science behind the denial is fake, either it is not serious and/or ethically compromised because it is financed by big corporations whose bottom line depends on stricter regulations not being passed.

The thing is it's worse than what was reported at first:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/01/27/nicholas_stern_says_he_underestimated_risks_of_climate_change.html

That's Nicholas Stern, from the London School of economics, hardly a left wing hippie eco-terrorist.

About green energy, Germany has economic incentives for solar energy, people pay more for electrical energy ( I think it's a matter of public education and no fear mongers financed by corporations) and you know what? The country's economy is growing and things are more or less good. Why wouldn't green energy work better in the US than in Germany, seeing as the USA receives more solar radiation in the summer than does Germany during the whole year?

Sometimes legislation is required to kick the butts of non compliers into order, the US clean water act is one of the country's finest ecological laws which has greatly benefitted the majority of the population.

So forget Señor Stossel and Fox news, this isn't something that's an ideological or party issue, it's a fact of life.

Also your correlation is not causation quote, check this out:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html

Slate is not a reputable source of information under any stretch of the imagination. Nothing that comes across the Internet is really credible, and most certainly the media is out to lunch on most everything as you can count on it as having been skewed one way or another. I saw a movie years ago about some mid-eastern terror cult, they chanted in unison, "Nothing is true, all is a lie!" My sixty nine years on the big rock seems to indicate that there is a lot of truth to their words.

@Monica, cause I don't want to quote that big box... it's hard to delete big sections of text on a phone!

what's the energy usage of USA vs Germany? I mean we are much bigger and no doubt consume a lot more right?

that article was nice... correlation does not imply causation, but gives a hint!

and for all those stats lovers... ill still argue 73% of all stats are made up!


for using the gov to invest in green energy... how do you decided which companies to invest? why this one over that one? I think it's probably chosen through political means... meaning they pick their friends companies first which does no good for us :-( id rather the gov let the people pick! with their own money! they'll be much safer, demand results and be highly critical so they can get their money back.

just throwing money at something and saying MAKE GREEN ENERGY! won't work... as proven by throwing money at education and getting zero results.  we need to be more careful with money, not so reckless... nobody spend their money as safely as yourself... its easy to spend other peoples money
..

.

The Great Green Con no. 1: The hard proof that finally shows global warming forecasts that are costing you billions were WRONG all along

Without stacking numbers and citing references (there's only so much time in a day, and I don't have the time to become an instant expert on climate change), I can't imagine that anyone can, in good faith, state that we are benefiting the planet with our fossil-fuel emissions... and that there aren't bound to be negative consequences of our doing so.

If it's debatable - let's hold the debate in the garage with the car running.

I also don't believe that a global-warming "myth" is being perpetuated by economic interests (read: greed): that makes little-to-no sense when you compare it to the economic interests of the oil companies.

Where's the money in it?

The global warming alarmists are almost all funded by tax-payers' monies.  The economic interest is to keep the funding gravy train going.

this whole thread is just one huge facepalm. It's not hard to test the effects of emissions on a smale scale. It's proven they affect temperature. And as already stated, why pollute and kill ourselves via asphyxiation when we don't have to? It sucks when you have asthma like me.

Living ideology and faith aside, and to-be in line with the spirit of the OP, the following facts are scientifically undeniable

1. Earth's temperature changes in cycles and the impact generated by human activity is at best negligible

2. Ozone destruction by human-generated pollution is deleterious for the biosphere

3. Earth pollution and environmental degradation by human-activity is not only bad for the environment but also for the health of humans4

4. human overpopulation is the real problem

Quote from: peky on March 18, 2013, 07:10:40 AM
4. human overpopulation is the real problem

I wish I could stick that in my IRA! Imagine the dividends!

Quote from: peky on March 18, 2013, 07:10:40 AM
Living ideology and faith aside, and to-be in line with the spirit of the OP, the following facts are scientifically undeniable

human overpopulation is the real problem

Not for long, there will inevitably be a world wide pandemic or CBR warfare that will resolve that problem soon enough!