I've spent the last few days up above Washington DC at my hospital. The government studies me not only for my genetic illness but also because I'm the only known transsexual with the disease.

Yesterday, I visited my gyno (who was also my surgeon) for my after hysto follow up. Out of the blue she says "we believe in your case we know why you are transgender". That kinda caught me off guard so I was just like "um, ok". She brought out a large picture of cis male anatomy. She started pointing at the head of the penis and the veins. She said, "You have those glands and it's not normal. Something happened to you in utero. At this point we can't say what happened but there is evidence that your development wasn't typical in the womb."

I'm sharing this because there is a debate amongst many if being trans is a medical condition or just an identity. For some of us apparently it is medical and I'm glad that the medical community is taking these things into account.

I did call my mom later and told her in a round about way what they found. She brought up when I was born they knew something was different but didn't know what. When I was born up until around pre school age I had no vaginal opening. Then she brings up she has seen talk shows were parents made a choice with their kids to be male or female and then made the wrong decision. Then when I start asking questions she goes off on another subject (I love my mom but she has "moments") and I knew at that point she would say no more.

I don't think I am better than or "more trans" (whatever that is) or anything else. Really now I feel even more alone.

I remember seeing a documentary about a gay trans couple where they discovered that the one who wasn't on T (Evan) was possibly intersex.  It's not quite the same because no one knew that anything was up until he went to his endo before starting T, but your situation reminded me of it.  The documentary is here if you're interested in it, it doesn't focus on those issues but it does make mention of them.

If I was in your situation I would just take comfort in that I had a solid reason for believing that I was trans and wouldn't have those moments where I wonder, "Am I trans or am I just butch/crazy/whatever."  Maybe I'm just the only one who has those fleeting thoughts before dysphoria decides to come and tell me to shut up, but it would be nice to make sense of why we're like it.  People understand diabetes, strokes and heartattacks, but no one understands why trans people are trans, except in cases like yours.  Is that the norm for a trans person and people just have varying degrees which are not visibly apparent or detected, or are there different causes?  I'm glad that there are people out there who are studying this, although I hope it's with your consent and they're not just using you as a guinea-pig because you're medically interesting.

Something happened regardless in all of our development in my opinion. Studies prove that our brain physiology in more close in relation to the gender we identify with rather than what we were born with anatomically. Just like homosexuality; there's a scientific basis for it all, in varying degrees.

Quote from: Hayzer12 on March 15, 2013, 03:59:11 PM
Something happened regardless in all of our development in my opinion. Studies prove that our brain physiology in more close in relation to the gender we identify with rather than what we were born with anatomically. Just like homosexuality; there's a scientific basis for it all, in varying degrees.

I agree.

I agree too.  I've read the studies, and I think being trans is a type of intersex (which is itself just an umbrella term for any variation in sex development).  I think in time that's how the medical profession will classify ->-bleeped-<-.

It is really great you are getting some answers, Simon - though I'm sorry you have to experience everything else that going on with your body in order to get them.  Hang in there, man.  You're not alone - we may not have your exact experiences, of course, but we are here to support you, for whatever that is worth.

Quote from: Hayzer12 on March 15, 2013, 03:59:11 PM
Something happened regardless in all of our development in my opinion. Studies prove that our brain physiology in more close in relation to the gender we identify with rather than what we were born with anatomically. Just like homosexuality; there's a scientific basis for it all, in varying degrees.

This is why I think of myself as physiologically and biologically male, despite some of my organs and body structure - our brains are definitely still physical. It is not a psychological gender identity disorder.

It will probably be awhile before we completely understand exactly what is going on with it medically. It is probably more than brain structure. For example, the influence of  hormone abnormalities appearing in puberty,  and other things going on with pre-natal development, as in Simon's case, etc.  Life experiences probably play a factor too - some latent physiological differences might be activated or triggered, for instance.

I am really encouraged by the studies going on, though.  Science is so fantastic, and it can explain so much.

Quote from: Simon on March 15, 2013, 01:14:16 PM
I'm sharing this because there is a debate amongst many if being trans is a medical condition or just an identity. For some of us apparently it is medical and I'm glad that the medical community is taking these things into account.

It can be a medical condition and an identity, for some too. One's an explanation; the other is acceptance, at least how I see it.

Quote from: Hayzer12 on March 15, 2013, 03:59:11 PM
Something happened regardless in all of our development in my opinion.

Then we are in agreement because I think it's a medical condition (for all) but there are plenty who do not have that way of thinking.

There is an intersex condition where you are born with a larger clitoris (but too small for docs to consider a penis) and no vaginal opening.  So this may be a factor for you.

http://intersexroadshow.blogspot.com/2011/04/intersex-genitalia-illustrated-and.html

I have been researching because I, too, am now under the impression that I also may be intersex.   Externally I appeared F, but I only had on ovary and one tube.  I suffered from infertility.  When I underwent tests for fertility was when that was discovered. Also, there was a 'mass' where the other ovary should have been, which was removed.  I was subsequently able to conceive.  I was told the mass was an embryonic remnant that had mineralized but I didn't pursue it further than that.  It turns out that in some cases of intersex a person can be born with 1 ovary and 1 ovotestis and externally appear female, and may have fertility issues.  I can no longer question the doctor that took that mass out, but it does make me wonder about intersex in myself. All I really know is that I always thought I was a boy, period.

Do I think all trans people are intersex?  No.  I do believe it may be due to a hormonal shift at some point during gestation.


Jay

I think being trans is a biological condition. I think this is a sensitive issue for people who are intersex if they are also trans. Since I think people identify themselves, I wouldn't go there.


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 15, 2013, 08:00:06 PM
I think being trans is a biological condition. I think this is a sensitive issue for people who are intersex if they are also trans. Since I think people identify themselves, I wouldn't go there.


--Jay

Well, since there is a good possibility that I myself may be intersex...I went there. I speak for myself, only myself.

From what you're saying, I'd say you're on to something with intersex.

A few years ago I did some heavy research into being intersex when some things came to light surrounding my mom's health while she was pregnant with me and some curious info that my aunt sent me (she sent me a birth announcement card where it was all "it's a boy" blue color but had my baby picture on it and also a letter where my mom said she had an ultrasound and was having a boy). I am one of those people who came out of the shoot with the larger than average external junk (for a female), I've had "reproductive" problems throughout my life but never had what could be considered "normal" female puberty or monthly crap. And of course, since day 1 I've just thought I was male (very upsetting learning the truth about the physical body when I was like, 3 or so – but nonetheless, that's the way my brain is set up). Thank the universe I don't have a genetic disease to deal with it on top of it all! But I truly believe that there's a ton of different variations to intersex – some are very much physical things that can be seen or tested, but I personally believe that being transsexual very much does have a biological brain component (not just a mental component). When I was doing my own research I ran in to a number of articles on what hormones do to developing fetuses. My mom's ovaries had stopped functioning few years before I was born. It was only because of another operation she had and the doctors operated on her ovaries in an attempt to make them function. I believe she had PCOS that went undiagnosed. I was conceived not long after her operation and my personal thought on it was that genetically I may be an XX (never had a genetic text but that's my assumption) but while my body started to grow out of those two cells I was bathed in the T that was coursing through my mom's system. Hormones are powerful stuff and they don't always conform, for lack of a more medical term, to genetics. So even though I'm not XY and didn't get all those proper "signals" in the womb, I feel that the excess hormone had a similar influence and it changed me from being a normal, functioning female.

My belief is that being transsexual can happen in the womb, just like a myriad of intersex conditions, genetic diseases ... plenty of not "normal" or "average" things that can happen while a baby is being formed. I hope science really does validate this some day.

I don't think I had any intersex physical characteristics and I would never ask my mother about it (this is all a very touchy subject for her, so I try not to mention it).  I did have a lot of problems in the womb, though.  I started coming out almost three months early and they had to stop the labor and put my mom on bed rest for a month and a half.  I was still born a month and a half early and had to be in an incubator for a few days.  I don't know if any of that messed with my brain.  I mean, learning-wise it didn't affect me at all.  I hit all the developmental milestones on time or early and I grew up to be a very intelligent person, but I don't know if it messed with my gender development at all.

I also agree that being transgender in most (or all, but I won't say all just to be open) cases is a biological thing, if not in the genitals, then in the brain.

I have to admit I'm kinda jealous of them finding a physical cause for you.  I dream about that kind of thing.  It would remove all doubts for me and I would be able to stop worrying if it's all in my head or not.  And maybe if there was something physical to be pointed at, my parents (and others) would accept it more easily.  I think you've been given a gift.

Quote from: Devin87 on March 16, 2013, 08:17:39 AM
I have to admit I'm kinda jealous of them finding a physical cause for you.  I dream about that kind of thing.  It would remove all doubts for me and I would be able to stop worrying if it's all in my head or not.  And maybe if there was something physical to be pointed at, my parents (and others) would accept it more easily.  I think you've been given a gift.

I will agree that in a sense it does feel like a validation. Then it's still not put to rest in my head because I wonder if there is more my mom isn't telling me and if not then why would she make a comment about parents choosing their child's sex. Yesterday she called to ask if I plan on telling the whole family about this. She thinks it will make them be accepting. Uh no, I don't think it's their business and if they didn't love me before then I don't want them around now. I don't want people talking behind my back about it either "Simon was born a freak so since he was born that way it's ok". No, just no.

I've actually heard that chromosomal differences are prevalent with Ftms. Not sure if this is true, but it would not be something to usually test for. You wouldn't even know, unless you were examined. There are also who find out thru some accident or incident-- don't really know their whole lives til something happens.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 16, 2013, 04:05:55 PM
I've actually heard that chromosomal differences are prevalent with Ftms. Not sure if this is true, but it would not be something to usually test for. You wouldn't even know, unless you were examined. There are also who find out thru some accident or incident-- don't really know their whole lives til something happens.

--Jay

That's an extremely interesting way of looking at it...it's entirely possible that like someone female in the sense of XX that undergoes male pre-natal development due to a translocated SRY gene, there is something that could be physically seen within the chromosomes dictating for a brain of one gender identity and a body of the other. My "brain map" is wired so that I have phantom limb sensations to the point where I have had itching like any other guy but couldn't scratch because the physical structure that the nerves claim are there, well, aren't.

My brain wiring is likely messed up in the way that caused my handicap anyway because I decided that it would be a great idea to spend around 10 minutes alive and then do a little magic trick involving turning blue and having every organ in my body fail. "Traumatic birth", they called it. But I digress.

I often wonder if different causes explain the different "types" of ->-bleeped-<-, from the kids who know as soon as they can talk, to ones like me who figure it out when they're bigger, to people who have a realization in adulthood. Perhaps even varying degrees of the same thing, such as the "masculinizing" of the infant brain that occurs in post-natal development, an ironic usage of estrogen. Perhaps the estrogen receptors were left free to be bound to in the brain of an FtM, completely or partially, maybe bi-gender people undergo masculinization but not defeminization...oh, bah. I'm just rambling at this point. I'll post an interesting pdf I'm reading over that can explain this better than my hyperactive brain can at the moment.

http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/PDF/640_TD_sexdiffnotes.pdf

Quote from: aleon515 on March 16, 2013, 04:05:55 PM
I've actually heard that chromosomal differences are prevalent with Ftms. Not sure if this is true, but it would not be something to usually test for. You wouldn't even know, unless you were examined. There are also who find out thru some accident or incident-- don't really know their whole lives til something happens.

--Jay

Really? I want to know more about this.

Thanks for the PDF Max, that's interesting. 

Jay, do you remember the source for that info?  I'd like to read it.

The endocrinologist told me that "sex differentiation is very complex and there are a lot of reasons why things don't always come out quite the way we expect".  I would say the problem is that our culture is very invested in the myth of dyadic sex and so struggles to accommodate the level of variety in human sex differentiation.  Hopefully this will change over time.

QuoteMy "brain map" is wired so that I have phantom limb sensations to the point where I have had itching like any other guy but couldn't scratch because the physical structure that the nerves claim are there, well, aren't.

Mine's the same.  My brain has a definite view on what my body looks like, how tall it is, what appendages it has, where things are and so on, but this map has nothing to do with what my body's really like.  Even after 27 years the map has never changed to reflect physical reality.  It really seems to be hard-wired.

Quote from: Mosaic dude on March 17, 2013, 04:37:26 PMMine's the same.  My brain has a definite view on what my body looks like, how tall it is, what appendages it has, where things are and so on, but this map has nothing to do with what my body's really like.  Even after 27 years the map has never changed to reflect physical reality.  It really seems to be hard-wired.

Me too. I hope to be able to bring it closer though.

QuoteMe too. I hope to be able to bring it closer though

You will.

My mom had a lovely flip out when I discussed this with her. It was all fine and dandy until I brought up that she thinks I may have some sort of late-onset CAH, which if I remember right was listed somewhere as possibly resulting in masculinization in the brain. I know they were studying the effects of classic CAH on it but don't recall seeing anything really definitive- if CAH does it, why not a late-onset form?

To go back to the brain map, mine very clearly knows it's wired male and my mental presence is male as well in spite of my body. I also have an ideal of what my mind wants to look like, but it's not how my wiring sees me. The latter perceives me exactly as I am...minus the extra fat on my chest and hips and plus some equipment that should be there. Too bad that map can't fix my body.

Much hope to you, Edge and Mosaic Dude. Hope things get better soon for the both of you.