my friend and i were working moving some stuff around and he said something mean to me jokingly i told him to "suck a dick" jokingly. then he was about to say something then said "no thats mean. i was going to say some thing but thats mean so i wont." i know he was going to say at least i have a dick, because the last time he wouldn't tell me something it was a trans thing. which if he had i would have kicked his ass, well tried. i would have punched him square in the face. he happens to have 10 pounds on me and is two inches shorter. so he probably would have kicked my ass. so yeah i dont know what to do because im pissed at him and i never got to release my anger because he never actually said it.

That doesn't sound like a friend to me. It would be different if he was poking fun at something he knew you could laugh at but it seems like he was purposely being a jerk.

I've had a few friends who were asses like this. It started to make me wonder why I continued to be friends with them if they were going to treat me like crap so I distanced myself from them. I decided that I didn't need their abuse even when it was disguised as joking around.

My family occasionally crosses the line, too, since I'm usually open to joking about anything and everything. You just need to let them know that using things like that against you isn't appropriate. If he continues to joke about it when you make it clear it isn't funny or appreciated I would cut all ties with him. It's hard enough to deal with all of the other nonsense in the world without having to put up with an equally unaccepting and insensitive support system.

Yeah. Tell him how you feel and if he doesn't respond the way you need him to, then I'd find a new friend.

Friends, especially guys mess around all the time dude, don't take it so bad.
Me and my friends make fun of each others weak points all the time.
Just say something witty back.

''I might not have a dick, but I still get more ladies than you lol''
''Your girlfriend(or mom) didn't seem to mind.''

Or something like that. After just laugh and move on.

Quote from: Jayr on March 18, 2013, 01:57:18 PM
Friends, especially guys mess around all the time dude, don't take it so bad.
Me and my friends make fun of each others weak points all the time.
Just say something witty back.

''I might not have a dick, but I still get more ladies than you lol''
''Your girlfriend(or mom) didn't seem to mind.''

Or something like that. After just laugh and move on.

Perfect freakin' answer. Guys are just naturally asses to one another and him telling you that saying it would be too mean shows that he is probably a more considerate friend than what you think. just cut him some slack, this is how guys act.

Quote from: Jayr on March 18, 2013, 01:57:18 PM
Friends, especially guys mess around all the time dude, don't take it so bad.
Me and my friends make fun of each others weak points all the time.
Just say something witty back.

''I might not have a dick, but I still get more ladies than you lol''
''Your girlfriend(or mom) didn't seem to mind.''

Or something like that. After just laugh and move on.

Perfect freakin' answer. Guys are just naturally asses to one another and him telling you that saying it would be too mean shows that he is probably a more considerate friend than what you think. just cut him some slack, this is how guys act.

Not really. I'll admit, I thought of that too when I first read the post since guys do poke fun at each other like that but if he's always making little remarks about only trans related stuff it's not meant as a joke anymore, it's meant to provoke instead. Guys might poke fun like this when they're joking but only if you can take the joke and throw one back at them. Once they know you don't like the joke, they do it to harass you so they can get a physical reaction out of you.

There's no need to feel like you have to act manly about it. If someone's being an ass, they're being an ass and you don't have to take it.

A joke is only a joke when two people laugh.Otherwise,if one gets hurt then the other is doing it in order TO hurt.being a man does not give one a right to be cold,period.A perfect example is my current room mate,hes a cold hearted bastard-and he will make such comments as well and even worse but out right.Of course the whole *i was only joking* comes in and all i can say is *if you were joking,then how come im not laughing? how come i feel like some freak thats a waste of space?* the honest truth is,people use the joke excuse in order to say what they want without being held accountable.Learn to know the difference.Joking is ment to make people happy,laugh-NOT hurt their feelings,make them feel worthless.If it wasnt for my current situation,my room mate knows-he would be on his ass.So my suggestion is,be blunt with your friend and tell him how it makes you feel and make sure he knows,that *men* or not,if it doesnt stop-there will be some changes made.

My brother aka best friend,is another perfect example.I KNOW who is joking with me coldly and i know who isnt.its there,you feel it,its MENT to hurt.my brother loves to crack jokes like *dude you been with more woman then i can count!* and we just laugh our ass's off (hes messing with me mind you-i havent LOL) but i know his heart.

You should let it go. There was off colored joking by both of you, right? That's what guys do. No one gets butthurt about it. Men don't complain to other men that their feelings weren't respected. They just don't. Hugs, Devlyn

Wow, I'm pretty disappointed at some of the responses here. Respect is a big issue among men, is it not? I read it as someone asking for advice too, not gossiping about hurt feelings. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.

Rampant stereotyping going on in this thread.  I don't think the OPs friend should get a pass cuz "thats how guys act towards eachother."

Because none of the guys who I keep company with, pre transition and currently, treat one another like that.

I also am not cool with women who talk crap behind other womens' backs; they don't get a pass because "that's how women act toward eachother."

Respect and sensitivity to other's feelings is pretty important in my social circles, and i think its a legitimate thing for ANYONE to ask for from their friends, male, female, or anywhere inbetween.

Quote from: natastic on March 18, 2013, 04:26:00 PM
Rampant stereotyping going on in this thread.  I don't think the OPs friend should get a pass cuz "thats how guys act towards eachother."

Because none of the guys who I keep company with, pre transition and currently, treat one another like that.

I also am not cool with women who talk crap behind other womens' backs; they don't get a pass because "that's how women act toward eachother."

Respect and sensitivity to other's feelings is pretty important in my social circles, and i think its a legitimate thing for ANYONE to ask for from their friends, male, female, or anywhere inbetween.

Agreed. This thread sucks, basically.

Lots of stereotyping and perpetuation of gender roles going on here.

Honestly, I think it's more what he said than what he didn't say. His saying, 'no I won't say it, that would be mean' makes it sound like he might not have been joking. Like he's making a big deal out of it. Especially since he's used that before. If he had just said 'at least I have a dick' or whatever, probably just teasing. But we weren't there so... A lot depends on tone.
But even with guys, there's usually boundaries. But you don't know someone's boundaries until you push a bit. I'd be more offended at the implication I'd be offended. 

Maybe talk with him about it. If he does it all the time, he's trying to get a rise out of you and screw that crap. But on the other hand cis people generally arent sensitive to trans people because they just can't empathise. One friend of mine supported me when I told him I was trans*, and then a couple days later sent me a joke on FB about trans people which wasn't exactly...sensitive. But I let it slide, because I knew he wasn't coming from a hateful place. Still. If he did it again I'd let him know he was crossing the line and to stop it. It all depends on the other persons intentions with me.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 18, 2013, 04:28:25 PM
Lots of stereotyping and perpetuation of gender roles going on here.

Stereotypes are based on truth. It's less about how the OP should act, and more on what to expect from a cisman's behavior.

Regardless of the genders of the people involved, you should learn to not find these types of things offensive, it's not meant to be offensive and it's a silly thing to let get in the way of a friendship. Learn to make light of it instead, as Jayr suggested.

Quote from: Contravene on March 18, 2013, 11:25:06 AM
That doesn't sound like a friend to me. It would be different if he was poking fun at something he knew you could laugh at but it seems like he was purposely being a jerk.

I think you are judging him much too harshly.

I've had people say that too. They're about to make a joke and go "no, that's mean" or "no, I won't go there." It is hurtful when they do it,  because you know they were thinking something bad about you.

The best advice I could give is that he obviously realized it was something that wouldn't be fair to say to you. Sure, it came late and he put his foot in his mouth, but at least he realized it wasn't appropriate to joke about something that could be legitimately hurtful to you.

I also have to agree about the stereotypes...they're not always true. My brother has groups of male friends who treat each other really well and don't take jabs at each other. And if someone crosses the line, the others will tell him he's being a jerk. So it's certainly not a universal thing and I don't think you're taking it too personally by being mad about it.

Well... to be fair, we really don't know what the friend was going to say at all. We're just jumping to conclusions based on one past action on what he was going to say.

Also, I've heard cis-males tell other cis-males that they don't have a dick while they're joking around with each other, so if he was going to say it he might've remembered at the last moment that you were trans and stopped himself thinking that it would hurt your feelings, or be seen as him being mean.

Yeah, gotta agree with LH on this. It's not a stereotype to say that guys do this, because it's just a social habit to playfully insult one another. A guy whom I consider my closest friend (actually told him and my bf about being trans before my parents because I trust them the most) says stuff like that after some comment of mine along the lines of "b***h please I will f**k you up the a**", immediately followed by my retort of "And you do?". It's just something we do in good fun- though I wasn't there so I can't say for sure, it sounds like your friend was being the same way, and then stopped in case you did get angry and decide to deck him in the face.

If it really bothers you, I'd just tell him "Hey, that's not cool, man" or something to that effect. Don't stress too much, but if it's really hurt your feelings enough to make you post about it, don't let it go without telling him.

Quote from: Liminal Stranger on March 18, 2013, 08:57:12 PM
If it really bothers you, I'd just tell him "Hey, that's not cool, man" or something to that effect. Don't stress too much, but if it's really hurt your feelings enough to make you post about it, don't let it go without telling him.

I agree with Liminal. I'm all for joking around and I'm usually the one who starts it, but if it's going too far you should tell him. Playing around is great as long as everyone involved is having a good time. When it starts to get to someone and the other person won't stop, it's bullying.

Guys poking fun at each other weak points is nothing new to me. Most of my guy friends, if not all, act just like that. I am a sensitive person and do not like taking things too far when I joke with other people or when people joke with me. I never thought my guy friends were bad, I just thought that was one kind of friend out of many. Girls usually do the same thing but they tend not to go as far as guys do with joking. I do not think there is a problem among guys joking the way they do. If you do not like that type of friend why not look for the type that you like. There is nothing wrong with looking for a guy who is softer and cares about other people feelings and emotion. Quite frankly, I probably would had felt just like you did if it happen to me, but that is usually the treatment that I get with my guy friends. That is why I like girl (friends) more because they are more considerate like you (not to say that you cannot find guys that are like that too). It might also explain why I did not have many friends growing up. They would always look at me and tell me what's wrong, but I never said anything because like people here said previously, that is how guys act. Well most of them. Being a transsexual let you see differences on how guys and girls treat each other.

What I find interesting is how both male and female friends treat each other. You just witness how MOST guys treat each other. Also there is a difference between how two girls, one girl and one boy, and two boys treat each other. I'll talk about my experiance  with the girl/boy relationship with me being the boy since that interest me more:

I made a small joke with a girl (friend) that probably would not be a big deal with a guy. It was a funny joke that was not serious at all (It was a stupid joke). Me personally, I never take things too far, even with my guy friends and they always took advantage of that. However, with this girl (friend) she wanted an apology and I thought that was radiculous. So, afterward I did apologize, but I seen this joke told a dozen of times with two girl friends. What is more even funny was that this same joke was told to this same girl (friend) of mine by other girls. Also it was not a joke that only two girls can tell each other (it was a really stupid joke), pretty much boys or girls can tell this joke to each other. Jokes coming from friends (boys) to (girls) are usually, taken more personally no matter what type of joke it is. The fact that she took it more personally made me felt like she labeled me more as a guy which cause me gender dysphoria.

The fact that you get treated like that with your friend(s) (guy) just means that they accept you as one of them. Sure, you may not like the way they treat you (neither did I), but if you tell him about you feelings getting hurt, he will laugh (if he is anything like my guy friends). I never knew why I stay with my friends... It could had been because I was lonely and like the story I told with the girl (friend) I would had not belong in her friend list anyway.

Having my feeling and emotions not cared for with my guy friends (I will say one more time, that is how guys act with each other) and having to be extra careful not to step on someone toe with my girl (friends) really makes me feel gender dysphoric.

Just like me, you have to accept that guys act like that and deal with it or move on to other friends. The only reason I stayed was because I had no one to turn to. Take the beatings or find the type of friend that you like. That is how most male or female operate in society when in a friendship with the same or different gender. Unless they are breaking the status quo. In other words a guy is soft with another guy and hard on a girl duing a joke when in a friendship. As for girls they can go as hard or soft as they want with guys, but never go too far with other girls.

Have you ever thought how a guy would look if he was crying over his emotions being hurt or the other guy being too soft while he told a joke (that definitely did with me with my guy friends). Unfortunately, in 2013 men freedom of expression is still restricted and you just experiance just that. If only feminist can see what you just saw then they would take men's rights more seriously. If I was seen as a girl I can treat a guy as rough as I wanted and he would not dare bite back (never would because I am a sensitive person).  And if he did he would have to apologize like I did. I felt like I was licking her invisible balls and penis treating her like a queen, while the guys were letting me have it. Women in some ways are more progressive and men are restricted. Of course, you must have known that guys treated each other like this before you thought of transitioning right???

As a guy I cannot find any suitable relationship with a guy or girl (because of society) and it is rare to find a guy who is caring or a girl that treat you as one of her friends. My transsexualism lead me to be lonely, depress, and sad..... I hope this does not happen to you. Although having friends have nothing to do with how you view yourself as a boy or girl, it does effect what friends you get most of the time.

I hope that by transitioning that I get the friends that I look for, if they still see me as a guy (don' pass) i'll be okay because at least am myself. I rather be a lonely ugly girl then have the type of relationship that you described. Good luck in your search for friendship.