As I'm sure you know transition ain't about them.  How self centered of them to think so!  And they seem to not think much of you for thinking the TV could make you trans, even if subliminally.

I don't want to pick on your parents or anything the like. They just seem out to control you.  And very selfish.

And if transition and hormones go against nature, nature sucks!

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

... and now my eye won't stop twitching.

Well. I give your parents points for creativity. Subliminal messages on TV convincing you to become a woman? That's a new one.

But, all in all I have to give them some real credit for them admitting that they might possibly be wrong. I'd hang onto that. Its a sign they might come around. And you stood your ground while letting them vent their feelings and be heard. So you've done all you could.

Have you thought about giving them space for awhile?  Maybe they just need a cooling off period (and you need a break from the third-degree interrogation, it sounds like).

My friends just suggested that, too.  I definitely need some space, and I'm sure they do to (even if they don't realize it yet).  I'd like to go on our family vacation in May, but if they're still hostile after that then I'm going to cut back on contact with them.

Sorry, I am going to have to, in order to stop arguing with my computer screen address some of these at least....

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
I am not good at maintaining control of the conversation when talking to my parents.  Here are my notes:

- Why do I want to hurt them?

Yes - I should live the life you want me to, so you feel good about it.

Quote

- Transitioning and hormones go against nature

So does wearing clothes, driving cars and use of telephone and email - so I am afraid I am going to have to terminate this conversation now :-P

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- I should try depression medicines

I would love to but they go against nature.

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- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear

Yeah where as admitting it to others was easy, and clearly it is better to live your life according to somebody elses values and desires, so that they don't have to hear anything they don't like.

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The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

Have you thought about following this up with scientific studies?

Maybe reverse the psychology on them, and let them know that their arguing each point with you is actually firming up your ideas and commitment in your mind. Just a thought. I haven't really thought that through, but it does seem that it could get them to ease up on the pushing as it actually genuinely does often have the opposite effect.

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... and now my eye won't stop twitching.

Deep breathes. Hugs

Steph
x

Quote from: Jess42 on March 18, 2013, 08:16:49 AM
You can still help them when they are older, even now, and actually you really should. You know all the Karma and stuff. Don't hate them even though you are angry and hurt. Genetic family really don't mean much, it's just a group of people sharing the same genes that you are born into, so their argument about losing family and friends is kinda' weak. You can have family and friends and if they don't accept you, there are plenty of others that will.

I like that everybody keeps telling me that.  I honestly have an easier time believing and listening to my friends than I do my parents.  Maybe me transitioning will help my parents become better people!

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It seems to me that you have come to the crossroads and have to decide to go however way you want to follow. If they want to cut ties, let them. Let it be known that it is fine with you. From what they wrote that you posted, it seems to me like threats. Put the "ball back in their court" and say something like "sorry and I really hate to lose the relationship and really can't believe that you can't unconditionally love your own child but I have to go my own way." That would be throwing the guilt back to them and maybe let them see that it is indeed serious.

I'm getting to the point where I might do this - even if it's just temporary so both sides can cool off.

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I wish you the best of luck to handle situation. When it comes down to it, be the stronger of the two parties, don't lose your cool. Let them see that you are confident and content with who you are. It may actually concrete the realization to your parents and they may start coming around. You still may have to give them time so be extremely patient. Be ready for whatever happens with whether they do cut all ties with you or want to salvage the relationship. Either way, I wish you the best.

Thanks for the luck and the advice.  I've got some serious thinking to do about how to handle them.

Quote from: Misato33 on March 18, 2013, 07:22:21 PM
I don't want to pick on your parents or anything the like. They just seem out to control you.  And very selfish.

Pick on them all you want!  It'll make me feel better...

Quote from: ChrisJ on March 18, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
But, all in all I have to give them some real credit for them admitting that they might possibly be wrong. I'd hang onto that. Its a sign they might come around.

I hope so... I really, really hope so.  It would be nice to have my family support me through this.

Quote from: Steph21 on March 18, 2013, 08:07:38 PM
Sorry, I am going to have to, in order to stop arguing with my computer screen address some of these at least....

<snip>

Maybe reverse the psychology on them, and let them know that their arguing each point with you is actually firming up your ideas and commitment in your mind. Just a thought. I haven't really thought that through, but it does seem that it could get them to ease up on the pushing as it actually genuinely does often have the opposite effect.

Haha!  I like your replies!  I wish I had thought of some of them while I was on the phone...

Majority vote is that I should take a break from them for a while.  After that, if they're still being difficult I can point out that all they're doing is making me want to prove them wrong.  I hope this goes well.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Why do I want to hurt them?

Why do they want you to suffer for their comfort?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- They raised me to be straight, narrow and moral

Gender identity has nothing to do with nurture, it's nature. Nothing they could have done would have changed you. Plus who wants to be narrow anyways. Wicked people are narrow.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I should try depression medicines

Not a bad idea, i'm taking some myself to keep my spirits up but it wont cure your feelings.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Transitioning and hormones go against nature

And depression meds don't  . All medicine goes against nature, if we let nature have it's way we'd all be fragged.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I am not a medical doctor and I cannot self diagnose

Most medical doctors know about as much about being transgender as the homeless guy talking to himself on the street corner. It's too complicated to be measured or graded and sufficient research has not been done for their to be serious formal diagnoses.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear

Again it's about them and not you. This happened with my parents a lot in the early stages. Classic "every man for themselves" mentality, selfish, cruel.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I need to figure out where "male me" is and not cover "him" up

I think you need do that except with the female you because that's obviously what makes you happy and happiness is everything.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I need to fight for the male me

and you will lose...if not now then later, we all do.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Maybe this is something I picked up subliminally from the TV

I lol'd. Their are trans people who don't have TVs because they live in third world countries where they can't afford one. Maybe the government hacked their brain?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Things have settled down since I moved and it should have gone away by now

It never goes away.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Mom is convinced I'll kill myself by taking hormones

So was my mom, except hormones are natural and not a poison. Many people take them without issues.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- Don't I value their opinions?

If you didn't value their opinions you wouldn't bother talking to them about it in the first place.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM- I need to stay off of informational sites (no way I'm leaving here)

Ya who needs information  lets just be blind and ignorant and it will go away right?

The bottom line is to hold the line with them. They will either flee and abandon you or act like loving parents and stand with you. Hopefully the latter.

 

Good answers MaidOf Orleans. Except for the one with the "all medicine goes against nature". Nature provides natural medicines to cure all of or ills mental and physical. It's just that most of them are deemed "illegal". Marijuana will help for things like glaucoma, back pains, anxiety and so on. The Incans chewed on Cocoa leaves before going into battle so that if injured, they could fight through the pain. If you have a headache, chew on the inner bark of the willow tree. It's nature's aspirin. And the list goes on. With the proper knowledge of plants and more lax laws, nature could probably help us and heal us more than big pharma ever could or will.

Anna Michele. It is a good sign that they may be reconsidering their views. But don't get your hopes up too high though because they can very well convince themselves otherwise. I, personally, wouldn't go with them on a family vacation until there is less tension between you guys. That is just my opinion though. If you do, I would definately handle my own transportation arrangements so if there is fighting or more guilt trips, you have the option to leave early. Don't get yourself trapped in a position that you have no options to get out of.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on March 18, 2013, 11:45:46 PM
Not a bad idea, i'm taking some myself to keep my spirits up but it wont cure your feelings.

I think I'll pass on the anti-depressants for now.  The time between accepting myself and being rejected by my parents was the longest sustained happy feeling I've had in a really long time.  Hopefully I can get back to that

My mom is continuing to send me regret stories and information about depression centers, so I've decided I need a break from them.  Here is the email I just sent:

Quote
There are too many heightened emotions on both sides, and it is keeping us from having a rational conversation. I don't need this constant stream of negativity, and you need time to process this information about myself that I have shared with you. I've decided that it is best for us to take a break from each other, so I'm not going to respond to anything until at least April 3rd. I hope that you will take this time to try opening your mind and your heart a little more.

I only live an hour away from my parents, so to thwart any unexpected visits I spent this evening changing my locks.

I like that you set a concrete date.  Also like the break on the whole.  Something had to be done to stop the momentum.

Here is the reply:

Quote
Constant stream of negativity?  Rational conversation?  I hope you take time to see that you are closing your eyes and ears to help.  You are looking through a prism that is distorting your brain.

I don't know what the significance is to April 3. 

I remember being told in Discrete Mathematics, of all places, that in order to have a productive discussion with someone the participants have to be operating from the same set of axioms.  You're/we're coming from a place of transition will be a healing.  They are coming from a place of transition will destroy.  They are also creating a self-fufilling prophecy by putting their needs ahead if yours.

A break remains a good idea.  They need time in the corner, as it were, to think about what they've done, what's really important and what is true.

Good move. Hopefully the break will give them some time to cool off and rethink things.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 19, 2013, 10:41:40 PM
  The time between accepting myself and being rejected by my parents was the longest sustained happy feeling I've had in a really long time.  Hopefully I can get back to that

Don't worry you will its just going to take time. But it will get better over time and your parents want be like this forever once the shock of you coming out wears off. It will get better but things will never be the same as they were before. There was a point when I thought being accepted by my parents was impossible but I was wrong and things have slowly gotten better. Just give it time the fact that they are trying to communicate means they do care for you and are less likely to disown you.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Why do I want to hurt them?

You're not the one that's hurting them. It's the truth coming out which is painful, you're just the messenger. It's the unfulfilled expectations which cause much of the pain.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
- They raised me to be straight, narrow and moral

But being yourself, being able to function as yourself, and coming across as being yourself and authentic trumps any morality.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I should try depression medicines

Sure they can be useful or supportive in stressful times but they aren't any sort of solution.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Transitioning and hormones go against nature

Nature chose you to be who you are so I don't see how transitioning and hormones go against it. The choice has already been made.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I am not a medical doctor and I cannot self diagnose

Until medical science develops a way of accurately reading someone's mind and making genes visible all we have to go on are what is presented to us by patients.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I don't realize how hard it is for them to hear

They don't realize (probably) just how hard it's been for you up to this moment in time. The truth isn't just painful, it can also be difficult to cope with. But the thing about pain and suffering is that it comes attached to growth and healing.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I need to figure out where "male me" is and not cover "him" up

What if the 'male you' simply doesn't exist, and if it does is no more than an illusion?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I need to fight for the male me

You don't need to fight for anything. You just need to be yourself openly, honestly and without hiding it or keeping it a secret.

Why fight to continue living a lie? 

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Maybe this is something I picked up subliminally from the TV

This strikes me as strange coming from two people who probably accepted two male cops running round in black leather, pantie girdles and pantyhose as 'normal' (Batman and Robin).

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Things have settled down since I moved and it should have gone away by now

There is no such word as 'should' when it comes to these matters. People move on when they're ready to move on and they do what they need to do.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Mom is convinced I'll kill myself by taking hormones

Accepted that there are a few risks with taking hormones but there are also precautions which you can take which ensure hormones are safe. You can only really kill yourself by taking hormones if you smoke heavily, drink heavily and develop a blood clot in the wrong place.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- Don't I value their opinions?

I think this can be roughly translated as 'Why don't you do as we expect you to rather than what you need to?'

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM

- I need to stay off of informational sites (no way I'm leaving here)

How else are you going to learn and make informed decisions?

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 18, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
The have conceded that they've thought about the possibility they could be wrong.  I did say a few times that I will ultimately do what I feel is best, even if they don't agree.

Welcome to the harsh reality of transitioning, it comes with varying degrees of emotional pain.

It's unfortunate because it comes at a time when you need the support and also the reassurance that you have them on your side, and they also might need support because they're shocked and angry and afraid and nothing can change these things other than taking the opportunity to get to know you as you really are inside and out.

I think it's wise that you give them time to come to terms with the truth and instead I would focus on your journey and the positive supportive people in your life.

I think the bottom line about coming out is that when you do you give people a choice over whether they accept you for you and continue the relationship or they stick with the illusion of who you presented yourself as never really knowing you as you are deep inside.

I would stay focussed on the positives. Pain and hurt comes with growth and healing but this needs time, and some people need the benefit of hindsight. You do have positive friends in your life and a support network.

I lost most of my family and friends through transitioning but a few remained, and these remained generally through thick and thin.

Reply #2:

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I can accept that you may think differently but I will NOT accept you physically changing yourself into a woman. You are NOT a woman any more than I am a black man.

I am meeting your brother at a restaurant for Easter 3/31. If you are not attending and he asks where his brother is, should I tell him?

So I need to talk to my brother soon.  I don't like feeling like they're forcing my hand here...

Maybe they should tell him the TV subliminally forced you to think ur a woman? Lol.  See where that gets them?

I am still u sure if the mean a television or a transvestite hypnotist! Lol

Quote from: Steph21 on March 20, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
Maybe they should tell him the TV subliminally forced you to think ur a woman? Lol.  See where that gets them?

I am still u sure if the mean a television or a transvestite hypnotist! Lol

Don't forget backwards through time!  Their claim that TV subliminally influenced me backwards through time sounds like crazy talk to me.

Quote from: Misato33 on March 20, 2013, 10:52:14 AM
I remember being told in Discrete Mathematics, of all places, that in order to have a productive discussion with someone the participants have to be operating from the same set of axioms.  You're/we're coming from a place of transition will be a healing.  They are coming from a place of transition will destroy.  They are also creating a self-fufilling prophecy by putting their needs ahead if yours.

It's weird thinking that something I'm seeing as "dream come true" and they're seeing it as the end of my life. 

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A break remains a good idea.  They need time in the corner, as it were, to think about what they've done, what's really important and what is true.

Quote from: Heather on March 20, 2013, 03:45:24 PM
Don't worry you will its just going to take time. But it will get better over time and your parents want be like this forever once the shock of you coming out wears off. It will get better but things will never be the same as they were before. There was a point when I thought being accepted by my parents was impossible but I was wrong and things have slowly gotten better. Just give it time the fact that they are trying to communicate means they do care for you and are less likely to disown you.

I hope so, I really do.  I feel horrible about having to cut them out like this, even if it is only for two weeks .  I've never had to do this before...

Quote from: StellaB on March 20, 2013, 04:55:08 PM
Accepted that there are a few risks with taking hormones but there are also precautions which you can take which ensure hormones are safe. You can only really kill yourself by taking hormones if you smoke heavily, drink heavily and develop a blood clot in the wrong place.

I think their biggest concern is that it could set off a Crohn's disease flare-up.  I'm worried about that, too, and I plan on asking doctors if anything has been studied about people who transition with Crohn's (even if mine is under control).  I don't plan on starting anything until I know it's safe.

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Welcome to the harsh reality of transitioning, it comes with varying degrees of emotional pain.

Thanks... I'd say I'm happy to be here, but I guess I need to get used to it instead.

Quote
I think it's wise that you give them time to come to terms with the truth and instead I would focus on your journey and the positive supportive people in your life.

I think the bottom line about coming out is that when you do you give people a choice over whether they accept you for you and continue the relationship or they stick with the illusion of who you presented yourself as never really knowing you as you are deep inside.

I would really like them to accept me as their offspring, and not only as their son.  They've said some harsh things, but if they change their tone I'll be more than happy to forgive and move on.

Quote
I would stay focussed on the positives. Pain and hurt comes with growth and healing but this needs time, and some people need the benefit of hindsight. You do have positive friends in your life and a support network.

I lost most of my family and friends through transitioning but a few remained, and these remained generally through thick and thin.

The support network is really, really useful now.  I didn't realize that coming out to parents would be so much more difficult than coming out to friends!  I hope the family you lost eventually comes around, too.

I think it would be good to reach out to your brother.  Maybe you'll find an ally there?  Better you try to draft him first instead of your parents.