Reading back through several threads I found a topic in the mtf section that ask if a pre op male who transition would beat up a chick to defend themselves.

Although what is interesting is that I have not found a similar topic in this side of the forum. If for the ftm that transition fully would you beat up a cis female if they were to provoke you in a fight? (Now that you have testostorone in your body and some of you do body build)
Do you guys feel the need to uphold society's standard with males never doing any harm towards female, even in danger? How do you feel for the males wrongfully incarcerated for simply defending themselves against female abusers? Do you think it is funny or take it seriously?

Just to be fair I will answer this question for myself since I never participated in that previous thread in the mtf section. If a female was bigger and stronger then me or we were in a fight for our lives then I would knock her out. Does not matter if I am preop or not. In society I think people tend to think that men are blood skull bashing machines that is capable of killing anyone. Men have weaknesses too and when exploit they can be a easy target. I would not want to do any harm towards anyone, but if it was for my life and others that I love, you better believe me that I will make sure she is at least put in a coma.

I feel especially sorry for men who is obviously way shorter and and weighs must less than his female assilant. When society learn that there are such circumstances where females can abuse men.

I am suprise that no one ask you guys this question to counter your original question? 

if i was seriously being injured then yes. if a girl is hitting me and isnt stronger then me i would grab her wrists and try to calm her down. i would never hit a girl unless i was in serious danger.

i think its ridicules for a 150lb man to hit a 100lb women who hit him first.

I never really agreed with the "don't hit women" rule in the first place.  If someone's attacking you, I don't care who it is-- defend yourself.  That said, you use the necessary force to stop them.  If a 5-year-old is punching you in the stomach, you're not going to haul off and punch them in the face-- you're probably going to try to gently yet firmly restrain them.  If a huge mean dude is coming at you, you're not going to try to be gentle with him-- you're going to do whatever it takes to stop him and get away.

So if I woman attacked me, I would stop her just like I'd do if a child attacked me.  I'd try to use a little less force and see if I can't restrain her or redirect her attacks without physically hurting her, but I wouldn't just stand there and let her hurt me.

I used to use violence all the time when I was 12 or so because I thought that the only way to be accepted by the guys was to be stronger and better than them. That sort of continued until I was 15 and me and another guy pitched ourselves at each other every lunchtime, and he never had any qualms about fighting me. Neither did other guys who were much stronger and bigger than me. If people are willing to fight and keep getting tougher then I'll fight them back and not go easy.

If possible I'd try and restrain a female as best I could, if they kept at it I think I would turn to dumping them on the floor if I could before swinging a punch at them. Breaking my hand with a punch (not at a person) and messing up my wrist later has made me cautious, as well as not wanting to be that violent to anyone.

At the end of the day my dislike of hurting women comes more from not wanting to be excessively violent where I have, or may have, the upper hand. A really hench woman would be much easier for me to hit than a skinny delicate man. Like when I didn't hit a girl who was threatening and provoking me (years ago) if because she had a busted finger, not because she was female.

I don't believe that gender should be relevant at all when it comes to self-defense.  If someone is attacking you, the appropriate response will depend on that person's size and force, as well as determining whether a physical response of any kind (counter-attack or simple restraint) is even warranted in that particular situation--and if so, what kind.  Being larger or stronger than the other person does not equal using full force when responding physically.  It is entirely possible to tone down one's responses accordingly; you can hit back without hitting significantly harder. 
And as for myself, frankly, I am tiny and if I think I'm going to be in danger unless I fight back, then fight back I will.  I don't care what's between your legs.  Chances are, if you've got me in a situation where I actually need to defend myself from you in the first place and no one else is around to stop you... you are a danger to me already, female or otherwise, and society can bite me because I'm going to do what I need to do.  Most females are going to have a physical advantage over me as it is, so this "men shouldn't hit girls because men are stronger" is total bs for multiple reasons. 

There's always the problem of if you don't stand up for yourself, you'll look like a fool for getting beat up by a girl but if you do stand up for yourself, you'll look like a jerk for beating up a girl.

For me personally when it comes to self defense, I don't differentiate between male or female. If someone is trying to hurt me or someone I care about, they're going to be in trouble regardless of their gender. Women are just as capable of causing damage as men are, especially if they happen to have a weapon in their hands which would make anyone dangerous.

That being said though I've been told that I'm more of a gentleman because if I know that someone, regardless of gender, is weaker than I am and incapable of really hurting me, I usually refuse to retaliate. It would be unfair to hurt a person who has no chance against me.

Pre-T, Post-T, whatever, I'd hit a girl if I needed to, if someone's attacking me I am going to defend myself the best I can, I don't care if it's a man or woman coming after me. No matter who it is, if I am physically capable, I'd rather restrain than seriously injure another person (unless the person has a weapon), but I am only 5'2" so realistically, I am not going to do that much damage fist-on-fist so it'd probably be a pretty fair fight unless it's a bigger girl who's stronger than I am.

(edited to make what I wrote make more sense)

Not to make this thread into a sob story. Once I remember this girl who use to bully me several times everyday. She was much bigger and stronger than I was. She had about eight inches on me and fifty pounds also. She would stop me right in the middle of the streets and demand that I empty my pocket. Sweating profusely and trembling, I did as she said. In broad daylight everyone was watching and laughing at me. Why is it that only girls get protected from this sort of stuff, but men don't. Although I understand completely now. That is how society operates with men.

The next day I refuse to let her have anything, she came at me and beat me up. I had scars, bruises. busted lip, black eyes, and when I told someone they laughed at me.

When she came back the next day I took a bar and told her to get away from me. Regardless, she came after to me as always, but this time I defended myself. She was slow and I use my quickness and wit to injure her. However the moment I touched her with the bar, everyone came for her defense and I went to a juvinile detention facility for doing so. Now that is mother F****** crazy. I have so much problems with both males and females, I am not suprise that I am lonely.

Thinking about what happen years ago, I cannot help but laugh it off now But don't worry about me, I just needed to get this off my chest. Do you guys think I did the wrong thing? I was only trying to do the right thing by telling everyone what was going on. That included my mom, dad, brother, sisters, police officers, the teachers. However none of them listened.

Thinking about that situation makes me feel like a monster and outcast to society. Currently, this is what I am talking about to my therapist. Sometime I think this person does not understand how I feel. To really know how I feel you must first live through the experiance. For once I just want people to take me serious and tell me that my feelings do matter. That I am just as important as anyone else.

Anyway, for the people that replied, I had a feeling that you were going to respond the way you did . That was too bad too because I wanted to see a reply from someone that actually took that rule about not hitting girls seriously. I always wonder why anybody would take that rule seriously.    

Quote from: manyquestions on March 19, 2013, 07:15:34 PM
When she came back the next day I took a bar and told her to get away from me. Regardless, she came after to me as always, but this time I defended myself. She was slow and I use my quickness and wit to injure her. However the moment I touched her with the bar, everyone came for her defense and I went to a juvinile detention facility for doing so. Now that is mother F****** crazy. I have so much problems with both males and females, I am not suprise that I am lonely.

Do you guys think I did the wrong thing?

I don't think it's wrong to defend yourself against a female, but from a purely detached and legalistic standpoint, using a bar might've been too far. You're only allowed to use reasonable force to protect property, so a reasonable person probably would've just handed over their lunch money or whatever she was after or ran away instead. The history of her beating you up the previous day does come into your favor though (if anyone would've listened to you), which would make you hitting her with a bar more reasonable since you had a legit fear of bodily injury, but the bar definitely counts as a weapon and that would probably bring it over the line, especially if you could've ran away or taken a different route, even though she was bigger then you. It would also depend on how she started coming after you on that occassion, like if she just stepped forward or if she started trying to hit you... but you're still only allowed reasonable force to protect yourself unless you're afraid (reasonably and objectively) the attacker is going to kill you. But you holding the bar out first and then her coming toward you, in the legal perspective you'd be seen as the initial aggressor,  since her beating you up the previous day isn't a continuation of the same event, so therefore it's almost as if she was protecting herself by coming after you on that day....

I don't know though, I think she got what she deserved. 

A reminder from the TOS:

5. The posting of messages on the chat or forums which are of a threatening tone, contain obscene or pornographic materials, are intended to titillate, or which depicts illegal acts; will not be permitted.

Assault with a bar is illegal, please have that discussion somewhere else.

I'm going to make this comment..

Strength is not everything. HRT has taken some of my strength, but not my skill and experience - I can (and sadly have) taken down a guy much larger and stronger than me because he attacked me.

That said, I have and always believe that a man hitting a woman is wrong - I don't think people should hit each other at all..

Quote from: Sammy on March 20, 2013, 06:21:23 AM
I want to bring a bit of heresy in this discussion... Lets say, would FTM (assuming he is a long time on T) would raise his hand against MTF in transition?

And I explicitly agree with Kelly. When dealing with pure and brutal hand-to-hand, it is not strenght, but skill, experience and mental conditioning which matters. I am 5.8, about 68 kg, 10 years of martial arts, but I am not a violent person - I could never kill someone (at least that is against my inner self), I could never hit somebody first, but if talking fails and You hit me or somebody close to me physically, I will dish out proportionate level of violence. And I am able to (I have done so in my life) take out two-three untrained and unarmed males of equal size and weight, unless I am down on the ground. Or course, I will suffer damage in the process, but that is inevitable. And I wonder how much of this the HRT might take away - not the skills and reflexes for sure. And it can take only one blow to incapacitate your opponent.
Mmmm, and besides... girls are not expected to fight fair and can use any dirty tricks they can... Awww, right...

Lol, i'd run away!

I have never been able to hit anyone. Unfortunately that has seen me get beaten up quite a few times. Often by people who were smaller and weaker than me. :-S

Quote from: Sammy on March 20, 2013, 07:02:25 AM
My young friend, when presented with options of fight of flight, running away is the best option ever. Unfortunately, You will not always be granted this luxury...

I could grovel at your feet 

Unfortunately, I am quite short, don't often carry weapons, and despite lifting weights I am probably still very wimpy in comparison.

i just want to add that in a non attack situation if a guy hits me ill hit him back if a girl hits me i dont hit her back. like if my little cousin hits me or my girlfriend hits me not trying to hurt me badly but just for fun i wont hit them back if a guy friend or one of my brothers hits me ill hit him back with equal force.

Quote from: Steph21 on March 20, 2013, 08:06:20 AM
I have never been able to hit anyone. Unfortunately that has seen me get beaten up quite a few times. Often by people who were smaller and weaker than me. :-S

Aikido.  Everyone should know how to defend him/herself.  If you don't want to really hurt anyone, try to find an Aikido class.

My stepdad's ex was a mean b-tch. She wouldn't ever let him see his kids and would stand in his way and boss him around despite her being like five feet tall, if that, and he's like 6'7. So women are very capable of violence and while I wouldn't haul off and punch her lights out, I still agree with defending ones self to a proportionate degree.

Yeah, I'd defend myself. Equality means equality. If I'm not allowed to hit someone, that means they shouldn't be allowed to hit me. Mind you, I avoid hitting people of any gender since that would get me into trouble. Also, when I do defend myself, I use size and skill appropriate tactics. For example, when my toddler hits me which sometimes happens, I hold his hands so he can't do it again, remind him that hitting hurts people, and put him on time out.