I'm in shock right now and just...I don't know what to think.
My parents' friend came to live with us for a week for vacation, who is a surgeon, urologist, and naturopath. He's a well-known doctor. Tonight he wanted to talk to me about my shots that I am taking; he is very open-minded and treats me like a man and everything. He started telling me everything on a very medical and scientific level, about hormones and receptors and stuff like that...female and male metabolisms and how they are different, etc. I'll try to summarize...
Every transsexual that begins the process of transition has a SIGNIFICANTLY shorter life. Because of hormones, death happens 30-40 years earlier. You cannot fight biology. Right now, while you are still young, your body's cells are able to fight the testosterone and live with it at the same time. Sooner or later, they will stop, and degenerative diseases begin. You CANNOT run from it. There is 100% chance that something will develop; taking blood tests every 3 months does not mean a thing. When a test actually shows something abnormal, then it is too late. Right now, because you are 4 months on T, you CAN force yourself to change your mind. Yes, you may feel horrible and develop depression forcing yourself to be a girl/woman even though your image is entirely different, but trust me, it will be MUCH, MUCH easier to live with than dealing with physical illnesses in the future. You will save tragedies from happening, for yourself and for the people that love you. You will become sterile, and while you are 18, it doesn't sound that bad; but in 20-30 years, you will be ripping your hair off of your head screaming in agony because what is done is done. It's irreversible. Do not go against biology, because if you take the decision to, you are signing a contract with inevitable disease, pain, and a terrible death. While you are young, everything is okay. Your body is strong, no significant changes have occurred, and everything seems to be filled with positivity. You have to understand you won't be able to have a family; you won't be able to satisfy sexually a woman, you won't be able to have children (and that is what women want the most), and of course, inevitable degenerative diseases that are irreversible. I want all the best for you, and I firmly respect your decision and I believe how hard it is, but you can change your mind while it's not too late. It's harming your own body and setting yourself up for the worst that can possibly be.

With his level of knowledge, I don't know what to think right now. For the first time in my life, I feel the happiest I ever did. I feel the freest. I feel endless possibilities, I feel like I can live my life how it was meant to be lived. I cannot go against my decision now. I cannot imagine ever going back to what I had to deal with before. I just changed my name legally, and beginning to make friends, go to college as a man, do everything I ever wanted to do. I'm living THE life I wanted. So now it's go against all of that to save 30-40 years of my life.   

I am absolutely sure that statistic is skewed by violent deaths, such as suicide.

Read this:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/93/1/19.full

Seems like a dick.
I know more older trans women that have been on hormones. There's this one woman who started hormones about 30 years ago (she's in her 60s). If knocks that much off your life then she must be invincible or something.

Quote from: BearGuy on March 25, 2013, 01:11:36 AM
Because of hormones, death happens 30-40 years earlier. You cannot fight biology. Right now, while you are still young, your body's cells are able to fight the testosterone and live with it at the same time. Sooner or later, they will stop, and degenerative diseases begin.

30-40 years shorter life expectancy? I have a very hard time believing this. I mean, I understand that testosterone does put us at higher risk for certain medical conditions (hypertension and cardiovascular issues come to mind) but these are hardly degenerative diseases.

I get that you're looking out for us here but honestly I think if there was much truth to these claims, HRT would not be nearly as accessible as it is. And though there hasn't been as much research on the long term effects of HRT as there should be by now, I think the medical community would be aware of something this significant. But it's all the more reason for us to take care of our health in all the ways that we are able -- with healthy diet, regular exercise, etc.

Quote from: BearGuy on March 25, 2013, 01:11:36 AM
I'm in shock right now and just...I don't know what to think.
My parents' friend came to live with us for a week for vacation, who is a surgeon, urologist, and naturopath. He's a well-known doctor. Tonight he wanted to talk to me about my shots that I am taking; he is very open-minded and treats me like a man and everything. He started telling me everything on a very medical and scientific level, about hormones and receptors and stuff like that...female and male metabolisms and how they are different, etc. I'll try to summarize...
Every transsexual that begins the process of transition has a SIGNIFICANTLY shorter life. Because of hormones, death happens 30-40 years earlier. You cannot fight biology. Right now, while you are still young, your body's cells are able to fight the testosterone and live with it at the same time. Sooner or later, they will stop, and degenerative diseases begin. You CANNOT run from it. There is 100% chance that something will develop; taking blood tests every 3 months does not mean a thing. When a test actually shows something abnormal, then it is too late. Right now, because you are 4 months on T, you CAN force yourself to change your mind. Yes, you may feel horrible and develop depression forcing yourself to be a girl/woman even though your image is entirely different, but trust me, it will be MUCH, MUCH easier to live with than dealing with physical illnesses in the future. You will save tragedies from happening, for yourself and for the people that love you. You will become sterile, and while you are 18, it doesn't sound that bad; but in 20-30 years, you will be ripping your hair off of your head screaming in agony because what is done is done. It's irreversible. Do not go against biology, because if you take the decision to, you are signing a contract with inevitable disease, pain, and a terrible death. While you are young, everything is okay. Your body is strong, no significant changes have occurred, and everything seems to be filled with positivity. You have to understand you won't be able to have a family; you won't be able to satisfy sexually a woman, you won't be able to have children (and that is what women want the most), and of course, inevitable degenerative diseases that are irreversible. I want all the best for you, and I firmly respect your decision and I believe how hard it is, but you can change your mind while it's not too late. It's harming your own body and setting yourself up for the worst that can possibly be.

With his level of knowledge, I don't know what to think right now. For the first time in my life, I feel the happiest I ever did. I feel the freest. I feel endless possibilities, I feel like I can live my life how it was meant to be lived. I cannot go against my decision now. I cannot imagine ever going back to what I had to deal with before. I just changed my name legally, and beginning to make friends, go to college as a man, do everything I ever wanted to do. I'm living THE life I wanted. So now it's go against all of that to save 30-40 years of my life.   

I'm sorry but this man doesn't sound "open-minded" to me.  In fact he actually sounds like the infamous anti-ftm blogger that a lot of us know.    This man says that what women "want the most" is to be sexually satisfied?  That's a huge red flag to me.  He cannot speak for every woman on this Earth.  He's not even a woman!  He's not the only surgeon, urologist, and naturopath on this planet.  This is why people get second opinions.   Plus, there are just aren't enough  long time studies to prove that every transman will die a tragic, horrible death by using hormones.


Honestly, I don't care.  I never see myself living a long life anyways, T or not.  The way I see it,  I'd rather live a shorter life being known for the man that I am than to live a long life putting on a mask, pretending to be something I'm not and being miserabe.  I could care less about having a family.  I'd rather spend that money on video games and vacations  This Earth is overpopulated anyways. 

However, I realize that people are different.  There's going to be a risk to everything you do and you have to analyze for yourself if the risk is worth the reward.

As Jamie pointed out, there's honestly not enough data to say trans people live shorter lives.

The way you recounted what he had said, it sounds like he was trying to scare you.  Using phrases such as, "You CANNOT run from it", "you are signing a contract with inevitable disease, pain, and a terrible death.", and "it's not too late."

Take what he said with a grain of salt, ask your doctor, and do some research of your own into the subject. 

I am of a professional opinion that the 'good' doctor is a total moron and displaying  a personal agenda.

For example the following is utter prejudiced irrelevant incorrect biased stupid and evil bull->-bleeped-<-. I'd say it more explicitly but my anger level may show through.

You will save tragedies from happening, for yourself and for the people that love you. You will become sterile, and while you are 18, it doesn't sound that bad; but in 20-30 years, you will be ripping your hair off of your head screaming in agony because what is done is done. It's irreversible. Do not go against biology, because if you take the decision to, you are signing a contract with inevitable disease, pain, and a terrible death. While you are young, everything is okay. Your body is strong, no significant changes have occurred, and everything seems to be filled with positivity. You have to understand you won't be able to have a family; you won't be able to satisfy sexually a woman, you won't be able to have children (and that is what women want the most), and of course, inevitable degenerative diseases that are irreversible.

What crap, what nonsense.

Utter stupid foolish and dumb comments.

Not only is it a very right wing holy doly misogynist statement it is also tantamountly and provably wrong.

I'll stop because his comments are so sick and stupid.

Just calm down and think! Yes 'everywoman' who doesn't have children is a failure and lives in misery? Testosterone kills you in agony?


No doubt the good quack also believes that woman are naturally content when kept bare foot and pregnant. Giving them the vote really stuffed them up.

I think the good 'quack' forgot that half of the world population are woman and not all have children either by choice or whatever.

The quack seems to have also forgotten that cismen are full of T and don't all die from degenerative disease, the incidence of most autoimmune disease and degenerative diseases are higher in females than in males BTW.

Maybe the good quack has forgotten that there are people in the world.

Utter and total crap, a total loon who has no place in the fresh air and should crawl back under a rock.

Um, naturopath? Naturopathy is heavily based on pseudoscience. I'm sure he has all sorts of statistics and studies to back up his claims? No? Then they're not worth the paper they're written on.

Besides, if I stop, I die. It might take me six months or a year, but I will kill myself. Then I'll be in line with this projection of dying 30-40 years early, at least. Will that make him happy? Yes? Then I guess I won't stop.

Definite smell of b.s. from this doctor

Edited for profanity, still the truth

Quote from: Arch on March 25, 2013, 03:49:30 AM
Um, naturopath? Naturopathy is heavily based on pseudoscience. I'm sure he has all sorts of statistics and studies to back up his claims? No? Then they're not worth the paper they're written on.

Besides, if I stop, I die. It might take me six months or a year, but I will kill myself. Then I'll be in line with this projection of dying 30-40 years early, at least. Will that make him happy? Yes? Then I guess I won't stop.

I was going to mention the oxymoron of Doctor, surgeon and naturopath. Even surgeons generally have a basic grasp of science - no matter what the majority of medical people think (Heee Hee).

I won't tell you what professional scientists think.

Quote from: BearGuy on March 25, 2013, 01:11:36 AMSo now it's go against all of that to save 30-40 years of my life.   

what life? for most of us transitioning is keeping us here longer than not transitioning. i personally think you should take your fear mongering rubbish elsewhere.

Please, with all due respect; what did the dear Doctor have on his cereal this morning? Or what does he drink regularly? As I'd like some of either.

Given the fact there never has been or are any long term medical/scientific studies done anywhere on the Transgendered community, even based on the number of nose bleeds we incur; the dear Doctor is basing his ideologies on lies, assumption with a very healthy dose of bias and transphobia.

Should he remain at your place I would be seeking others places to eat.

That's just my personal feelings

Huggs
Catherine

P.S. Even if there was a modicum of truth in what has been said, it would still not sway my opinion on where I'm taking my life to. Lying JUST DOESN'T WORK Period.

Huh, interesting read...

But either that 'doctor' is pulling your leg horribly, or he's some kind of anti-trans witch doctor.
When you start the process, everything is talked through. How it will change your life, how it might effect your sensation in the downstairs department, how you will never be exactly like like a biologically male or female (because that's still medically impossible at this point) etc. So I guess unless any of our doctors/psychologist go like "oh yeah, forgot to mention this but....The whole process also halves your life. We thought it was no biggie, you know....Want some coffee?", I wouldn't worry about a thing.

Also, if he thinks he's really right, I want to see his references. I'm sure this has been studied before because it is known that hormones can have a damaging effect.

It's the stuff he said about "never being able to satisfy a woman" and "every woman wants kids" that threw me off of what he said big time. He obviously is not as open-minded as he initially came across. There are tons of ways to please a woman, and lots of women definitely do not want kids because they would prefer to have their independence.

And whenever anyone says "100%" (100% chance of something going wrong), I'm leery as well, that's an awfully generous estimate.

Given how little we know, hormones may affect life expectancy, especially if not monitored correctly. But what he has said is extreme, far off the mark, and I doubt based on any proper science.

Quote from: BearGuy on March 25, 2013, 01:11:36 AM

Every transsexual that begins the process of transition has a SIGNIFICANTLY shorter life. Because of hormones, death happens 30-40 years earlier. You cannot fight biology. Right now, while you are still young, your body's cells are able to fight the testosterone and live with it at the same time. Sooner or later, they will stop, and degenerative diseases begin. You CANNOT run from it. There is 100% chance that something will develop; taking blood tests every 3 months does not mean a thing. When a test actually shows something abnormal, then it is too late. Right now, because you are 4 months on T, you CAN force yourself to change your mind. Yes, you may feel horrible and develop depression forcing yourself to be a girl/woman even though your image is entirely different, but trust me, it will be MUCH, MUCH easier to live with than dealing with physical illnesses in the future. You will save tragedies from happening, for yourself and for the people that love you. You will become sterile, and while you are 18, it doesn't sound that bad; but in 20-30 years, you will be ripping your hair off of your head screaming in agony because what is done is done. It's irreversible. Do not go against biology, because if you take the decision to, you are signing a contract with inevitable disease, pain, and a terrible death. While you are young, everything is okay. Your body is strong, no significant changes have occurred, and everything seems to be filled with positivity. You have to understand you won't be able to have a family; you won't be able to satisfy sexually a woman, you won't be able to have children (and that is what women want the most), and of course, inevitable degenerative diseases that are irreversible. I want all the best for you, and I firmly respect your decision and I believe how hard it is, but you can change your mind while it's not too late. It's harming your own body and setting yourself up for the worst that can possibly be.
   

Spoken like a transphobe.

Quote from: BearGuy on March 25, 2013, 01:11:36 AM
... but you can change your mind while it's not too late.

UTTER CRAP!!!

If it was possible to change my mind, don't you think I would have done that!!!

I've spoken to many medical PROFESSIONALS and even the most conservative of them have said is that we do not have enough information about the long term effects of cross hormone therapy.  Most say that taken responsibly and with proper testing they are no worse than birth hormones.

He does not have any knowledge of the trans condition or know any trans patients.

He is an ass.

-Sandy

The first word that stuck out for me was 'naturopath'. I echo what others have been saying here: that's a red flag to me right off the mark.

I used to work for a complementary medicine magazine where I interacted with a lot of people that were very high up in the industry*... and you wouldn't believe the bovine excrement that some of them tried to pass off as 'research'. By and large, Complementary Medicine is like religion: everyone believes that their own little doctrine (or their particular sub-branch of that doctrine) is the One True Way and that everyone else is wrong or deluded. They'll try to turn you to their way of thinking to 'save' you from the evils of modern medicine. A lot of it is based on faith, opinion and charisma rather than scientific evidence. Seriously, it's so much like religion that it's almost scary.

Naturopathy is ideologically at odds with our transitions as it encourages natural healing with a minimum of medical intervention. It's understandable that your 'doctor' friend might think that T is a harmful, unnecessary medical intervention under those circumstances. Doesn't mean he's right, though. He probably also doesn't believe in Evidence-Based Medicine, so how he can be a surgeon and a naturopath whilst keeping a straight face is beyond me.

He reminds me of the infamous former South African Minister of Health, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, who recommended that people dying from AIDS should treat themselves with garlic, lemons and beetroot rather than using anti-retrovirals because those nasty ol' ARVs aren't natural. People like that can do untold harm to innocent lives.

If I were you, I'd put my faith in the actual medical professionals who you're working with, rather than someone who believes your body has a special invisible energy field.

* One of the people I had to work with was very high up in a major Naturopathic organisation here in the UK. He's one of the least healthy-looking people I've ever met in my entire life.

My doctors would disagree wholeheartedly. All three if them. Maybe he has blinders on....

Quote from: Malachite on March 25, 2013, 01:54:51 AM

Honestly, I don't care.  I never see myself living a long life anyways, T or not.  The way I see it,  I'd rather live a shorter life being known for the man that I am than to live a long life putting on a mask, pretending to be something I'm not and being miserabe.  I could care less about having a family.  I'd rather spend that money on video games and vacations  This Earth is overpopulated anyways. 

This. If I think of myself as a woman I want my life to be end as soon as it's possible. I'd rather live a short but happy life then a long, endless suffering.
I think this is different for everyone just like HRT, I'm sure there are trans people who lived shorter because of transitioning (I know someone). But I also know that she was happier than ever in the years that she lived as a woman, and would never regret transitioning, even if she knew she will die soon.

Life is shorter than what? Is there a standard here? Some sort of guaranteed minimum?

I could wake up tomorrow, leave my home, and die from being in a road traffic accident.

I could have a heart attack next week.

Next month I could contract cancer.

But you know right now I'm sitting here, very much alive, writing this posting, and doing what I can to create happy memories for myself and those in my life.

It doesn't matter to me when I die (I mean there's not much I can do about it, is there?) but what does matter is that people remember me for who I truly am, and not as the person I never was and never would have been.