I've been on T for over 13 months and I do not regret my decision to transition or anything like that, but I have noticed I struggle with Internalized Transphobia. It's hard for me because I have all these feelings about being trans. Like, I live as male and am very happy in this role, but feel weird when I say I'm male, not because I'm not happy or don't feel that way, but I look at my own history (which is very different from the standard "I've always known" troupe) and feel like I don't belong or that there is something wrong with it. Anyone else feel this way? How do you deal with it?

I do as well. It's hard to call myself a man, especially when I never passed for so long and still seem ambiguous a lot of the time. Yet, I know I am a man. It definitely is a sense of shame for me. The way I handle it is to hang around supportive people as much as possible, but also to try and picture myself as if I were living on an island. If no one would judge my manhood, how would I see myself? How would I feel? Would I be secure in who I am? And the answer is yes. So that gives me some comfort.

I think I do too; I'm happy with my internal self, but I experience quite a bit shame regarding physical transition. My internal dialogue goes something like: "sheesh, couldn't you have just kept these feelings to yourself? Do you have to show the world how you feel on the inside?" I guess the idea of transition feels really unnatural to me some days, even though I know it's the path I want to take. Interestingly, I've dubbed this feeling 'internal transphobia'.

I deal with it by being confident about who I am. When I'm feeling down about transition, I look at the source. Am I afraid? Am I ashamed? Do I feel guilty? <--these are feelings that are expected and understandable. I acknowledge them, let them have their moment, and then I move on. They are stones and ruts on my path; they don't ultimately effect my destination.

Now things like doubt about my identity, or just a shift in identity, are things I take more time with, as these can change where I'm headed. The different kinds of feelings are hard for me to tease apart sometimes though. Nice to know I'm not the only one with a little 'transphobia.' As long as we don't let it get the best of us.

On my own I have no transphobic feelings inside, just a tinge of sadness and regret about not being born male in a male body. Then there's the problem of being in a house where I get bashed for having ever said anything and hear a constant stream of hatred, proclaiming that all transgender people who take hormones or have surgery or want those things are freaks, which is parroted by the internal voice that hates me and starts beating me up when I feel down, as if my mother has suddenly invaded my head and is in there with a megaphone.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 24, 2013, 01:11:06 PM
I've been on T for over 13 months and I do not regret my decision to transition or anything like that, but I have noticed I struggle with Internalized Transphobia. It's hard for me because I have all these feelings about being trans. Like, I live as male and am very happy in this role, but feel weird when I say I'm male, not because I'm not happy or don't feel that way, but I look at my own history (which is very different from the standard "I've always known" troupe) and feel like I don't belong or that there is something wrong with it. Anyone else feel this way? How do you deal with it?

just to get it straight,
you'r feeling this because you feel somehow less trans cause your feel your diffrent, as having a diffrent trans story than the typical mainstream one? (right?)
--
I guess alot of transfolks are diffrent and don't fit the general term of how the "typical trans is"
but media have set it up as a narrow vision to make it simple for cis folks to understand, (or even trans people)

I also feel diffrent in a way cause I dont hate "girly things" and don't have bottom dyshoria like many ftms do, neither do I really want to fit in the boxes on "how real men should be" thing or think of ->-bleeped-<- as being neither a disorder or a big handicap but a group of people who unfurtunately has less rights in our sociaty.
this and other things who make me feel diffrent from the "general trans picture"

I think what helps making me feel better is not to look to much at the typical media, or mainstream thing but insteed try to look around in diffrent people who got diffrent backgrounds. im lucky to have alot of friends, trans or not who is pretty interesting and who feel diffrently about there gender identety and many of there lifes and storys are an inspiration even if you dont want to be like that its still nice to see that its posible.

often gender is diffrent for each of us what we combind it with, I dont belive its natural that just because we are trans we are all simular and agree on everything, theres points who is typical to relate with, but ex I cant really understand those transfolks who lived as a lesbian for many years cause I never have. somethimes we forget we all got this diffrent storys and put ourself to much up in black and white terms, we also forget that the word "gender" itself is diffrent from each of us, if you ask a person from the middle east to say something about women they might say "women wears scarfs" while this wouldn't make sense for a typical western famely.
I could also ask someone on the stress about men and women they might say "women gives birth" but I know transguys who have done that so I dont combind it with something only female do.

this is diffrent from each of us.

I don't know if my difficulty with calling myself a man (I usually use the words guy, trans guy, male, etc.) is due to transphobia. I have wondered that since I lived most of my life as female and never considered myself a "woman" that I somehow did not exactly "grow up". I wouldn't think I'd have trouble with "boy" except that it is so not true.

--Jay

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 24, 2013, 01:11:06 PM
I've been on T for over 13 months and I do not regret my decision to transition or anything like that, but I have noticed I struggle with Internalized Transphobia. It's hard for me because I have all these feelings about being trans. Like, I live as male and am very happy in this role, but feel weird when I say I'm male, not because I'm not happy or don't feel that way, but I look at my own history (which is very different from the standard "I've always known" troupe) and feel like I don't belong or that there is something wrong with it. Anyone else feel this way? How do you deal with it?

I feel this way.  I have all sorts of transphobic thoughts - some of them are self hatred, some are a backlash because I feel like I don't have the same experiences as any other trans person, and some are a reaction to the transphobia of the people around me.

In the end, I think we should just see being trans as a self-descriptive adjective. As in, I have brown hair, but the brown hair group is not something I need to feel like I belong to.  There's no trans club we exist outside of. 

Additionally, everything I've seen lately seems to indicate that the typical trans narrative is actually some generalized normative construct very few actually adhere to.  It spread from space to space because no one wanted to feel like they didn't belong, so they adopted it as part of their own internal story. Of course, this was aided by the perpetuation of this narrative as a requirement to get medical treatment.  And, not to discount those that actually feel like the typical narrative, I am sure some people actually do feel that way.  But not me. And not tons of other people.

Quote from: aleon515 on March 24, 2013, 05:45:04 PM
I don't know if my difficulty with calling myself a man (I usually use the words guy, trans guy, male, etc.) is due to transphobia.

I do this too: I use words like 'dude' or 'guy' or even 'fanboi' (under the right circumstances).

To be brutally honest, I think it's because I still feel to a certain extent that I haven't yet earned the right to use the 'man' label. And this may well be due to internalised transphobia... but more specifically (in my case at least) I think it's because I've been denied permission by society to call myself what I am for so long now, that it's difficult for me to get my head around the fact that I am allowed to do so.

Sometimes when I'm overthinking I feel like I'm just sick of being trans. I mean I have to plan every move I make, how to act among different people who knows me before transition, to go or not go home etc. And these are just the little things, there are the surgeries, making the money for it with the female name and the masculine look. Sometimes these thoughts are just overflowing and make me sad.

Not wanting to be trans isn't internalized transphobia. I don't think any of us enjoy having to spend thousands of dollars on medical treatment, be judge by our peers, and deal with body dysphoria. Being trans sucks and there's nothing wrong with feeling that. Transphobia is disliking or mistreating trans people because they're trans, not hating that you've been stuck with this life.

Quote from: mangoslayer on March 26, 2013, 05:36:22 PM
Not wanting to be trans isn't internalized transphobia. I don't think any of us enjoy having to spend thousands of dollars on medical treatment, be judge by our peers, and deal with body dysphoria. Being trans sucks and there's nothing wrong with feeling that. Transphobia is disliking or mistreating trans people because they're trans, not hating that you've been stuck with this life.

Yep.

I am happy where I am transitioning.  I definitely knew from early on even if I didn't understand it.

Problem I have is, I still prefer Females and it makes me feel like a fraud.  Its like whenever I think of myself in a lesbian relationship or flirting that in the end of the day they are going to see me as a guy  no matter how well I pass.  Of course thats not true!

Much of that dysphoria comes from my genitals, where when I am post SRS I feel I won't have to worry about that REJECTION.

Its not so much the rejection of sexuality(lets face it, I still have "it") but the rejection of my gender from what I would consider my peers (Which I have no trouble saying, its seriously not my fault I was born in this body with this brain). 

In short, many of us deal with this fear.  Regardless of gender transitional spectrum. Yes it has alot to do with not feeling comfortable speaking your true gender identity, the fear of rejection. 

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 24, 2013, 01:11:06 PM
I look at my own history (which is very different from the standard "I've always known" troupe) and feel like I don't belong or that there is something wrong with it. Anyone else feel this way? How do you deal with it?

I feel similarly. My story is very different from most FAAB trans people in a lot of ways, and I feel sometimes like I'm not a 'real' trans person because I'm not binary, or because I didn't realize until I was 18, or because I don't have bottom dysphoria.

Another big thing for me lately is that I've been reading a lot by radical feminists, and it gets me to thinking that I only think I'm transgender because I've internalized so much misogyny. I know this isn't true, I know I'm really trans, but I agree with a lot of what they say on other topics.

Quote from: mangoslayer on March 26, 2013, 05:36:22 PM
Not wanting to be trans isn't internalized transphobia. I don't think any of us enjoy having to spend thousands of dollars on medical treatment, be judge by our peers, and deal with body dysphoria. Being trans sucks and there's nothing wrong with feeling that. Transphobia is disliking or mistreating trans people because they're trans, not hating that you've been stuck with this life.

Speaking for myself only, I turn not feeling transgender enough into actual transphobia.  Sometimes, honestly, I feel the standard, "Oh I've always known..."  is often justification after the fact.  When my roommates make transphobic comments, I have regretfully joined in to let them know I wasn't going to be super sensitive like it seems some other trans people are sometimes.

Additionally, sometimes I will turn feeling not trans enough into something that is actually beneficial for transphobic reasons.

I am aware all this happens and the reasons for it though, and none of this my actual, reasoned out opinion - it is just the thought process I work through as justification for how I feel sometimes

Quote from: mangoslayer on March 26, 2013, 05:36:22 PM
Transphobia is disliking or mistreating trans people because they're trans,

But that includes ourselves. I treat other trans people just great. They are guys. Real guys. Me, I'm a freak, a bona fide Pinocchio without the burgeoning wood. That's internalized transphobia.

Quote from: androgynoid on March 27, 2013, 05:16:45 PM
I feel similarly. My story is very different from most FAAB trans people in a lot of ways, and I feel sometimes like I'm not a 'real' trans person because I'm not binary, or because I didn't realize until I was 18, or because I don't have bottom dysphoria.

Another big thing for me lately is that I've been reading a lot by radical feminists, and it gets me to thinking that I only think I'm transgender because I've internalized so much misogyny. I know this isn't true, I know I'm really trans, but I agree with a lot of what they say on other topics.

I don't think the radical feminists (really extremely radical) have much to offer transguys, imo. Just speaking for myself, I was active in the women's rights movement in my 20s. It didn't keep me from becoming a transguy. (There are other transguys that were even feminist separatists.) You are trans enough. I am not completely binary, and I know there are quite a few others here who aren't either.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 27, 2013, 10:27:52 PM
I don't think the radical feminists (really extremely radical) have much to offer transguys, imo. Just speaking for myself, I was active in the women's rights movement in my 20s. It didn't keep me from becoming a transguy. (There are other transguys that were even feminist separatists.) You are trans enough. I am not completely binary, and I know there are quite a few others here who aren't either.

--Jay

They don't have much to offer to men, nor trans people. They tend to be 'trans-critical' 'gender abolitionists' who champion 'female-only' spaces and the like. If I were a cis woman, though, I'm sure I'd be a radfem; I like their views on a lot of things, and their philosophies come close to mine on a lot of levels. I even took a 'What type of feminist are you?' quiz once and it told me I was a radfem. But I'm not cis, or a woman, so I don't really belong with that movement. I'm not sure I should even call myself a feminist of any sort. I know there are male feminists, but my radfem-y sensibilities make me feel funny about them.

Things are hard.

/ramble

Quote from: mangoslayer on March 26, 2013, 05:36:22 PM
Not wanting to be trans isn't internalized transphobia. I don't think any of us enjoy having to spend thousands of dollars on medical treatment, be judge by our peers, and deal with body dysphoria. Being trans sucks and there's nothing wrong with feeling that. Transphobia is disliking or mistreating trans people because they're trans, not hating that you've been stuck with this life.

I'm sorry, completely misunderstood the thread.

Quote from: Arch on March 27, 2013, 10:17:50 PM
But that includes ourselves. I treat other trans people just great. They are guys. Real guys. Me, I'm a freak, a bona fide Pinocchio without the burgeoning wood. That's internalized transphobia.

But I can also relate to this.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 24, 2013, 01:11:06 PM
I've been on T for over 13 months and I do not regret my decision to transition or anything like that, but I have noticed I struggle with Internalized Transphobia. It's hard for me because I have all these feelings about being trans. Like, I live as male and am very happy in this role, but feel weird when I say I'm male, not because I'm not happy or don't feel that way, but I look at my own history (which is very different from the standard "I've always known" troupe) and feel like I don't belong or that there is something wrong with it. Anyone else feel this way? How do you deal with it?

The part in red was me, prior to my transitioning.

As I started down this path, I also came into conflicts...my body's a male...but my mind isn't...I'm changing my body to be more female, gradually...but I don't feel my mind becoming "more female", it just is...

What I've done is to let go of the rigid "binary" thinking--"you MUST be all girl, or not at all!" or, "you MUST be all guy, or not at all!"  I am who I am, with a not-male brain and a body to match...

Hope things get better for you!

This is something I personally deal with as well. I'm extremely quiet about correcting people when they get my gender wrong because when they get it wrong all I think is "Well if I don't pass then what right do I have to tell them otherwise?   Why would I turn this conversation awkward?" I love when I get called by the right gender, I love it when I get treated like a male, but when i'm not or someone calls me by my old name, it hurts but I just kind of grin and bear it. Throughout my whole transition i've been in the mode of "Well when I look male i'll do that..." like I really want a nice three piece suit but I won't go anywhere near the store because right now i'm afraid of how I look and what they will read me as (I really don't want to be read as a butch lesbian....) but I also want to be treated the same as any other man who would walk into that store.

I don't really fit into the "known since forever" category either. I had gender mixed feelings throughout my childhood (ex, when I was 9 I couldn't understand why the guys could take their shirts off on a hot day but I couldn't) but I certainly went through a period where it was almost like I was overcompensating with female behavior. Anyways, I haven't 'always known' like a lot of others seem to have. It just kind of came about.

I wouldn't call my fears internalized transphobia because i'm such a chill individual, that seems a bit too dramatic for me personally. I'd instead I just call it 'felling like a transman when i'm actually just a man' if that makes any sense?

I think it's the small things that help though. For me my 'new start' has been really helpful in dealing with this. I changed uni's (starting in Sept!) and i've also picked up a new hobby, which means new people in my life who didn't know me before the transition. I suppose that's the hardest part, I feel like people who knew the old me will only ever see a transman and I only ever want to be seen as a man... Anyways the change in schools has helped, while i'm in the 'in-between' period between changing schools i've been able to get farther along in my transition, I look more male now, I pass a bit better amongst strangers and I'll have had my top surgery before going back (a huge bonus since i'm very large breasted and i'm pretty sure it's my number one give-away, second only to my voice).

I think this fear of being 'transman' and not just a 'man' is probably a common fear, dunno that's just my two cents.