I had my first experience of having kids recognize I am male. It wasn't a really good one exactly. I have heard/read other trans guys talk about this. Anyway, while I was walking my pembroke Corgi, Torie, and  I passed a couple girls about 6-8 or so. It used to be that kids are so drawn to Torie that they kind of can't stand themselves. They ask if they can pet her and so on. Well today, they saw her and it looked like they looked at me, assessed the situation and just turned and walked away. Kind of sad that our society has to be like this.

--Jay

JJ, I would not read anything into that.

Aw, I don't know. I was never really reserved about asking to pet a dog based on its owner's gender. I can't say that the kids in my life have been either. I'll admit that I skip asking - and I still do ask, because I'm a sucker for dogs - when the owner looks to be on the grumpy side. Is there any chance it might have looked to them like you were having a bad day? Whether you're perceived as male or female, I think attitude might be more relevant in this particular situation.

On the other hand, if you were all smiles and happy-like, maybe they were just wary because you're a man. My parents were always pretty uptight about stranger danger.

I think it could be a stranger danger thing. Heck might have responded to me like that before, though I think I remember them. Recall that this is a dog walk in the neighborhood where I have lived for 10+ years. They were definitely all happy and it was like they reconsidered. Now of course, I am guessing it was not me, per se, but messages from parents, "don't talk to strangers". (It's funny that people talk to strangers all day long, strange message.)

Funny thing how overdone the "stranger danger" thing is. Most people are hurt by someone they know.

Don't know, think I was looking kind of "we're walking not talking". So it could have been that.

Jamie, there's a difference. I have just read about this too many times. There's also stuff about how women perceive you. I wanted the guys to see what they thought.  Besides I think it's a good discussion topic.


--Jay

There could also be the possibility that they just don't like dogs.  Or maybe one person in the group didn't like dogs, so they reconsidered.  I know a lot of the time I see dogs when I'm at college and think they're awesome, and the guy I hang out with tries to hide behind me as we're walking past.  Although I normally like working dogs and he's got a chug (pug x chihuahua) so it's more likely to be a fear thing there.  They might have had somewhere else to be as well though, I wouldn't necessarily take it as a bad thing.

On buses and trains people avoid sitting next to me even though I look like I'm 12 or 14, so I'm sort of have a slight theory that people find androgyny a bit uncomfortable, because every single time they choose to sit next to females, or males either older or younger than me, who I'd be slightly uncomfortable sitting next to sometimes.

My thought is that for kids that young it was probably more of stranger danger especially if they perceived you as a man, and especially since they were girls. I'm experiencing a bit of the opposite, young children seem to approach me better now since I present as a woman.

Quote from: AlexanderC on April 07, 2013, 12:28:03 PM
There could also be the possibility that they just don't like dogs.

I had dog fear for a couple of years as I was bitten by a dog as a child, so yeah it could be if its only happent a few times or just once.
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I am this super akward person around kids,
Pre T it where like people expect me to show interest and emotions with there small children and it got kinda akward as I wasnt really emotional enough making jokes like.. "hey gangsta how your doing" and the parrent annoyed.

now its kinda opposite I see a kid and try to make a good first impressen like "hello do you want candy" and the parrents gets super freaked out.

unlucky brian here.

just saying the weather plays a huge role in wether people want to stop and pet your dog. if its a nice day and im walking my dog i'll get a bunch of people complementing him or stopping to pet him. in the winter no one stops its too cold. also the time of day its sketchy to be petting a guys dog at night but in the light of day its 100% normal.

Quote from: Rosa on April 07, 2013, 02:23:31 PM
My thought is that for kids that young it was probably more of stranger danger especially if they perceived you as a man, and especially since they were girls. I'm experiencing a bit of the opposite, young children seem to approach me better now since I present as a woman.

I agree that being perceived as male would probably be a factor in kids not wanting to pet the dog, maybe not this time if there was some of the other factors like weather or if you looked grumpy like others mentioned. I've heard repeatedly over the years that there's men out there who use cute little dogs to attract kids and then kidnap them or whatever; who knows, maybe their parents told them to look out for strangers with cute little dogs. More people worry and warn their children about male sex predators than female sex predators. We'll just have to see if more kids in the area stop coming to pet Torie now that you're transitioning.

Most of the time when I see a guy walking a dog it just seems to be more of a chore for him. He takes the dog out for a walk to let it do it's business or some guys will go jogging with their dogs to get some exercise in, inviting little to no conversation along the way. Usually when I see women though it's kind of a social event where they leisurely walk their dogs together in groups to talk and invite conversation.

Those differences might be why children and just people in general are more likely to avoid a man walking his dog. They don't want to interrupt a guy who's just going about his chores but they'll happily interrupt a woman or group of women who would be more sociable. Even though I don't doubt that it plays a factor, I think people read too much into the stranger danger thing.

Personally, I wouldn't want kids coming up to me constantly. I would feel like some awkward Pied Piper with kids trailing my dog and me all around the neighborhood.

Bright sunny afternoon. Nice neighborhood. These kids LOVE dogs (I think I recall) and my dog LOVES kids. But it is hard to say what they were checking on. Seems to me to be stranger danger to me. But I don't, of course, know what was going on in their heads.
Also might have just looked busy. The other thing, I have heard that others tend to feel more that it is wrong to like kids as a guy. Matt K. has a funny story in his book about this. So maybe I am starting to reflect this a bit in my body language. I think it's a sad thing in our society but that's the way it is.

Kids are just drawn to her, like a magnet. I don't always enjoy this.
She's a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, you know how cute they are.

--Jay

I think I am starting to pass with kids. We had a birthday party for our youngest today and the five or so little girls there. One asked if I was her dad, and her cousin said no, I was her other mom, and then the third and fourth chimed in that I seemed more like a dad. Our little one said I was better because I was like a mom and a dad together. They all accepted that just fine.

I noticed the other little cousin, who is about two really has really taken to me and seems to relate to me as male.

I know I am beginning to pass with kids. I teach in a middle school and am not out as trans there (except for a handful of teachers). I think the kids are having difficulty with it as I have gotten some awkward questions ("do you shave?" and so on).

--Jay

People seem to be more comfortable around women then men in general, and since kids can be hypersensitive to social norms you might be onto something. But it's just as possible their reaction had nothing at all to do with your gender.