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Cosmo, May Issue, Fearless Female, article about MTF, correcting gender.

Started by FrancisAnn, April 09, 2013, 12:33:19 PM

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FrancisAnn

Just noticed & reading the article, though would post. First time I've ever seem cosmo open up for us TS women.
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peky

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 09, 2013, 12:33:19 PM
Just noticed & reading the article, though would post. First time I've ever seem cosmo open up for us TS women.

link please!
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jamielikesyou

I think this might be cool, but I trust Cosmo to be as sensitive to handling trans issues as Fox News. Will have to flip through one at the grocery isle to see.
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bethany

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A

This is completely unrelated to the discussion, but I have to complain: WHEN will magazines understand that on the Web, you do NOT page an article? The whole point of a Web page is that you can scroll it down! Gaaaah!
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
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Beth Andrea

Quote from: A on April 09, 2013, 05:16:51 PM
This is completely unrelated to the discussion, but I have to complain: WHEN will magazines understand that on the Web, you do NOT page an article? The whole point of a Web page is that you can scroll it down! Gaaaah!

+1...but with pages, they count each as a "hit", inflating their "pages visited" numbers (which is important in setting advertising fees)

1 page =1 "hit"...but an article with 6 pages, if you click all thru the article, = 6 "hits"...
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Rowan Rue

Not a bad article, I was a little annoyed about the editorial at the start and it's use of pronouns but still pretty good.  I wish it had been a little deeper.





My personal blog is [url=http
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natastic

Quote from: Rowan Rue on April 09, 2013, 11:00:29 PM
Not a bad article, I was a little annoyed about the editorial at the start and it's use of pronouns but still pretty good.  I wish it had been a little deeper.

100% agree.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 10, 2013, 06:07:04 AM
And this person had not completed SRS so it was not a complete story of a genuine MTF TS.

Francis, I think you have to be very careful saying stuff like this.

There are a lot of non-op women here at Susan's who think we're VERY genuine.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Carlita

Quote from: Rowan Rue on April 09, 2013, 11:00:29 PM
Not a bad article, I was a little annoyed about the editorial at the start and it's use of pronouns but still pretty good.  I wish it had been a little deeper.

As a journalist myself, I think the criticism of the 'misgendering' is very unfair and misunderstands the job the writer/editor is trying to do to explain the story to readers.

The beginning of the story deals with someone known to the world, and presenting to the world, first as a boy called Tommy, then Tom Grabel - a man, for whom the correct profile then was 'he'.

Now we know, and Tom knew that the pronoun was in fact inaccurate. But the point is that the world, including Tom's wife didn't. So when 'he' came out as 'she' that was totally unexpected.

if the writer had referred to Tommy/Tom Grabel as 'she' right from the start, that would have confused readers and killed the reveal, when the world discovers Laura. All references to Laura Grace are properly gendered she or her.

I really don't think it helps the TS cause if writers, stories and publications that are obviously respectful and well-intentioned get slammed, just because they haven't conformed to an agenda they don't even know exists and which is, in any case, much more debatable than its highly vocal proponents maintain.

As a writer, I think Cosmo did a great job. As a reader, I found the piece really interesting. And as someone who still presents as a man, but defines themself as transgender i wasn't in the slightest bit offended.

FWIW, I think that a person who presents as a man, dresses like a man, talks like a man and uses a man's name can reasonably expect to be called 'he' (I do and I am) ... and when she presents, dresses, talks and names herself as female, why then she has every right to be pissed off if she is not treated, and pronouned like a lady.
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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 10, 2013, 06:07:04 AM
I agree, it was too shallow an article. And this person had not completed SRS so it was not a complete story of a genuine MTF TS. However at least cosmo has opened up some.

All members of SP should let cosmo know we are here & purchase their magazine & products. We deserve better coverage of our truly unique feminine lives.

Cosmo isn't exactly know for its depth....

The fact they did this article in the first place blows my mind.
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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peky

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 10, 2013, 08:32:20 AM
Francis, I think you have to be very careful saying stuff like this.

There are a lot of non-op women here at Susan's who think we're VERY genuine.

There we go again with the HYPERSENSITIVITY..we are all adults and can read well..she (Francis Ann) did not mean to deride anybody...

lets give her break..take a chilax pill!
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Rowan Rue

Quote from: Carlita on April 10, 2013, 08:46:10 AM
As a journalist myself, I think the criticism of the 'misgendering' is very unfair and misunderstands the job the writer/editor is trying to do to explain the story to readers.

I disagree, questioning the article's intro is certainly not unfair.  I'm pretty sure there have been zero studies to date on "confusion caused amongst cisgender people by pronoun use in articles on transgender people"
All I said was that I was "a little annoyed" could I have elaborated?  yes.  Is that "very unfair criticism"?  I hardly think so.

Quote from: Carlita on April 10, 2013, 08:46:10 AM
I really don't think it helps the TS cause if writers, stories and publications that are obviously respectful and well-intentioned get slammed, just because they haven't conformed to an agenda they don't even know exists and which is, in any case, much more debatable than its highly vocal proponents maintain.
I certainly don't think I "slammed" the article.  I merely voiced, very briefly, a little annoyance.  I thought the existence of the article itself was great, I thought it was respectful and I enjoyed reading it.  I wish it had been longer and hadn't jumped around with so little structure, but hey, it's Cozmo writing a non-sensationalist article about a transwoman. 
I think that's great.
As to ignorance of the issues being an excuse, that seems a rather poor argument given what the role of journalist is meant to be.  So sorry you don't know how to do research?  No, that just doesn't wash.
To be honest I'm a little back and forward in regards to the use of pronouns in a historical context.  Personally though, I have found that those family members and old friends who slip up with my present day gender the least, are the ones who edit my historical pronouns as well.
Jumping to the conclusion from a single remark that I am a highly vocal proponent of any argument is unfair.
But then maybe you weren't.  Maybe you were speaking broadly and failed make that clear.





My personal blog is [url=http
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Carlita

Quote from: Rowan Rue on April 10, 2013, 04:48:55 PM
I disagree, questioning the article's intro is certainly not unfair.  I'm pretty sure there have been zero studies to date on "confusion caused amongst cisgender people by pronoun use in articles on transgender people"
All I said was that I was "a little annoyed" could I have elaborated?  yes.  Is that "very unfair criticism"?  I hardly think so.
I certainly don't think I "slammed" the article.  I merely voiced, very briefly, a little annoyance.  I thought the existence of the article itself was great, I thought it was respectful and I enjoyed reading it.  I wish it had been longer and hadn't jumped around with so little structure, but hey, it's Cozmo writing a non-sensationalist article about a transwoman. 
I think that's great.
As to ignorance of the issues being an excuse, that seems a rather poor argument given what the role of journalist is meant to be.  So sorry you don't know how to do research?  No, that just doesn't wash.
To be honest I'm a little back and forward in regards to the use of pronouns in a historical context.  Personally though, I have found that those family members and old friends who slip up with my present day gender the least, are the ones who edit my historical pronouns as well.
Jumping to the conclusion from a single remark that I am a highly vocal proponent of any argument is unfair.
But then maybe you weren't.  Maybe you were speaking broadly and failed make that clear.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you personally, Rowan, I didn't mean to. As you say, I was speaking broadly. Yours just happened to be the post I replied to, but I was really talking about the general criticism that the piece was receiving, both here and on the Cosmo site itself. My bad for not making that clear.

On the question of confusion, it's a simple linguistic issue. A piece of writing is much easier to read if references to a boy called Tommy use 'he' and 'him' because the person being described [resented as, and was treated as a boy (later man) at the time. Trust me, it would read very oddly if their was a disconnect between the person being described and the pronouns being used.

As for ignorance, I don't think it's reasonable to expect even a well-briefed, fully-prepared reporter to be fully aware of all the ideological debates going on within this community, or any other. And if they happened to be so, they still have every right in a free country to take a decision about the needs of their readers vs the opinions of one particular group in that community.

As I think we agree, the most important thing is that the piece was published in Cosmo, that it was entirely sympathetic to Laura Grace and that it presented her transition as what it was: an inspirational journey to a better, truer state of being. That the majority of responses from cis-female readers were overwhelmingly supportive is also great to see.
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Aleah

I love Against Me!

If you haven't heard her song about gender dysphoria.. here it is:

Makes me cry every time almost  :'(
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eli77

Quote from: Carlita on April 11, 2013, 05:40:08 AM
As for ignorance, I don't think it's reasonable to expect even a well-briefed, fully-prepared reporter to be fully aware of all the ideological debates going on within this community, or any other. And if they happened to be so, they still have every right in a free country to take a decision about the needs of their readers vs the opinions of one particular group in that community.

And similarly, their readers have every right in a free country to leave comments on the piece regarding how they feel about how their needs were addressed. That particular argument is never effective for stifling dissent.

If Laura Grace consented to said treatment, then great. But you can hardly pretend like the extensive misgendering of trans people in media all across the globe is not an ongoing issue, or that it isn't a well-known sensitive topic. This is a complicated debate that is currently happening in newsrooms around the world.

Personally, I wasn't straight till I was gay. I wasn't cis till I was trans. And I wasn't male till I was female. Regardless of how I was perceived. And arguing that it's fair to misrepresent people's experiences in the name of making it "easier" for readers to understand seems ridiculous to me. A number of major papers and news outlets in Canada now have a set policy of not misgendering trans people, even in historical context, and they don't seem to struggle with mass confusion among their readership.
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