I was rather bored today and decided to watch a movie I used to love as a kid: Ace Ventura. Its with Jim Carrey playing a very, very crazy pet detective with a very high level of sillyness. Nothing wrong, right?

But then it gets to the point how the bad guy is an ex-football player, who turned into a woman. And when Jim Carrey reveals this, she is ridiculed and everybody who finds out is utterly disgusted. It is all brought in a comical way, of course, but still. She had kissed Jim Carrey at some point when he didn't know she was actually a he, but when he finds out he burns his clothes, scrubs his tongue and overreacts to the max. Its completely homophobic and transphobic.

I couldn't even remember ever noticing this as a kid, but it comletely ruined the movie for me. The movie is from 1994, so pretty old, but were transgender people really seen as utterly disgusting by then? Or maybe..even maybe this is still the case? Would a movie like that be accepted nowadays?

Have You seen "The Silence of the Lambs"? Now, that is something really transphobic.

40 year old virgin. not to bad he just says this female prostitute is really a man and she has a dick because her adams apple was bigger then his. no one really freaked out or reacted to over the top its also like three seconds out of the movie.

There are certain degrees of transphobia...but all in all, it would be best if we could get rid of transphobia like we got rid of racism. Lets all just hope though that we don't get listed under "politically (in)correct"; at which point no one will use the term "trans woman/man" for fear of being labeled as transphobic. Silly society, silly sheep!

Even in 1994, it may have still been very transphobic due to the treatment of trans people's health/transition...I dredged up an old article accidently by none other than the (in)famous Ray Blanchard (father of the discriminatory/sexist/transphobic term " ->-bleeped-<-).

Guess what year it was published...you guessed it 1994.

-Skye

Quote from: Sammy on April 17, 2013, 06:35:41 AM
Have You seen "The Silence of the Lambs"? Now, that is something really transphobic.

Actually, saying Jame Gumb (buffalo bill)is a transsexual is false. In both the books and the movie Lector even says he isn't transsexual. Thomas Harris is one of my favorite thriller authors, and I actually just reread silence of the lambs for the reason that a friend of mine got offended on my part because she thought it was trans phobic. Gumb applied for a 'sex change' but was denied because he wasn't diagnosed with GID, and was not mentally stable. He had a deep self loathing and thought that by giving himself a 'woman suit' he could he as far away from himself as possible.

Maybe I'm odd, but I don't take movies seriously, especially comedies. They go for shock value. Even I'm guilty of laughing at Ace Ventura. I'm not saying that there aren't underhanded things in movies, I'm just saying I take Mel Brooks approach. Make fun of everyone equally.

Quote from: Ayden on April 17, 2013, 07:21:56 AM
Actually, saying Jame Gumb (buffalo bill)is a transsexual is false. In both the books and the movie Lector even says he isn't transsexual. Thomas Harris is one of my favorite thriller authors, and I actually just reread silence of the lambs for the reason that a friend of mine got offended on my part because she thought it was trans phobic. Gumb applied for a 'sex change' but was denied because he wasn't diagnosed with GID, and was not mentally stable. He had a deep self loathing and thought that by giving himself a 'woman suit' he could he as far away from himself as possible.

Still, could he be considered as having had transgender related issues?

See, it's not the 'Ace Ventura'-esque trans portrayals that grate me the most. Sure, they're horrible, but they don't really pretend to know what they're talking about.

Whereas films like 'Transamerica' and 'Normal' are much more dangerous, because the people involved did just enough research to get some stuff right, meaning that the stuff they get completely and utterly wrong gets taken as fact too. Urgh...

I agree that Lecter does point out that Jame Gumb isn't transsexual but he does say that Gumb thinks he is transsexual. That's a very fine distinction and I believe it is lost on most of the audience.

Gumb was clearly mentally ill in some undefined way... but it's never made entirely clear to a lay audience exactly what his mental illness is. All they know is that the bad guy liked to tuck his privates, wear make-up, cross-dress and murder people... and that the word 'transsexual' was thrown in there somewhere.

I have never been offended by Silence of the Lambs, its one of my favourite movies. I watch it like every time its on. I think its just misunderstood/lost on people the whole thing with Buffalo Bill. Lecter actually stated he wasnt a real transsexual but he tried to be, thought he was. He just hated his identity and thought that made him transgender. The fact he was refused treatment (and from 3 different gender clinics at that) would suggest that was true. If he really was then it would have come across to the doctors and he would have been treated for it (in the same way we go through this ourselves) He was not diagnosed with GID so of course would not be given treatment. He was probably just confused himself as to his true identity like alot of members on here are here to explore themselves and may find out what they thought about themselves was actually not what they thought, probably the case here. He just mistook hating himself to mean he was transgender

'Our Billy hates his own identity you see, he always has and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage and more terrifying. He wants to be reborn you see'

Clearly has some mental illness but its not GID. Whatever he told the doctors in order for him to be refused would reflect this. Since Lecter knew who he was he had probably treated him at some point and seen it himself to know it wasnt really the case. Yes he does cross-dress and try to alter his body but it may go no further than that, doesnt mean he actually is a woman inside in order to actually be transgender. He might not even know himself. Seems he was only trying to alter himself to change in some way as he hated his own identity so much, it would be helping mentally to get away from that by doing those things


Its just a movie but I like to get into the story of things in a deeper way than the average person does. Same with video games with any decent storyline to them I like to know what everything means etc. In this case I dont think SOTL was transphobic at all. I loved Ace Ventura when I was younger and I dont remember the scene you mentioned at all actually. If I saw it again now I might see it differently.. Aimed at the average person I guess who doesnt understand this at all and just treats it as a joke to be laughed at. I cant think of any movies off the top of my head which have dealt with this issue other than SOTL. Nothing I've seen has come across as transphobic to me. I would hope people have more respect now to get rid of those attitudes

Quote from: Mr.X on April 17, 2013, 06:32:38 AM
But then it gets to the point how the bad guy is an ex-football player, who turned into a woman. And when Jim Carrey reveals this, she is ridiculed and everybody who finds out is utterly disgusted. It is all brought in a comical way, of course, but still. She had kissed Jim Carrey at some point when he didn't know she was actually a he, but when he finds out he burns his clothes, scrubs his tongue and overreacts to the max. Its completely homophobic and transphobic.

Ace Ventura was my first introduction to what a transsexual was.The presentation of that scene definitely influenced my initial thoughts regarding transsexualism, and I  am sure it did/does for other people who have watched it. Pretty awful, really. 

Transamerica was watchable, but it sorta grated on me at points. I feel like the main character was depicted as strange and mentally tilted for being trans, not just as part of her personality.  Also, I never understood why they had to take the road trip in the broken down car, when they could have just flown or gotten a rental car as was the original plan. It seemed forced along for much of the plot, and in the end it really wasn't even that funny save for a few moments.  The acting was bad save for the Sports Night actress that played the main character, even then it felt like she was playing a parody of a trans woman.

Also, the way the therapist just yanked her surgery approval letter right out from under her until she did exactly what the therapist wanted was irritating to no end.

I love "Silence of the Lambs" (as well as the other films in the series). I do agree that on one hand Dr. Lector does say that Jame is not a true transsexual. Years of abuse has made Buffalo Bill hate his own identity which makes him think he is a transsexual. However, as one other person stated, the general public isn't hanging onto that one line. All they saw was a man who wanted to be a woman so bad he skinned women alive to take their skin....a crazy transsexual.

I like the way this author put it:

Marjorie Garber, author of Vested Interests: Cross-Dressing and Cultural Anxiety, asserts that despite the book and the film indicating that Buffalo Bill merely believes himself to be transsexual, they still imply negative connotations about transsexualism. Garber says, "Harris's book manifests its cultural anxiety through a kind of baroque bravado of plot," and calls the book "a fable of gender dysphoria gone spectacularly awry".

Do I think the film/book had any lasting effect on how transsexuals are seen by the public? No.

Quoteall in all, it would be best if we could get rid of transphobia like we got rid of racism.

It would not be best to make everyone think exactly the same. Just as you are free to have your opinions you must respect the fact that others have the same freedom to theirs regardless if it jives with your morals or ethics.

I'd like to know who got rid of racism.

Yea, transmisogyny is pretty much everywhere. Nearly every trans character is treated like crap. There was ONE situation I saw recently that was decent...there was a trans woman on Nurse Jackie. She was treated at a hospital and they treated her well (even suggesting a place where she could get her heath checked out that knows more about trans people).

Edit to add: I still want to see Gun Hill Road

I get really annoyed with supposed comedies where for some reason the lead character has to cross dress for one reason or the other. It's always shown in a way that makes it shameful for the characters to have to do so...followed by the shock when everyone finds out. Then the lead character reveals themselves to be a sham, apologizes, finds forgiveness/acceptance, then roll credits.

A few I can think of along this vein are:

Ladybugs (1992)
Just one of the Guys (1985)
Just one of the Girls (1993)
She's the Man (2006)

 

Did Some Like It Hot have any bad stuff involving the two guys who crossdressed?

Well, a senator can say he would kill a transwoman for entering a female changing room, so I'm not too surprised. Barely anyone said anything. So nothing is surprising to me when it comes to how much society doesn't give a ->-bleeped-<-.

Quote from: Ayden on April 17, 2013, 07:21:56 AM
I'm just saying I take Mel Brooks approach. Make fun of everyone equally.

I hear this a lot, and this isn't necessarily directed at you because I don't know what you personally.

But when, exactly, do cis people get made fun of? Or straight people? Do white people in america media ever get it as bad as minorities? How about those who are not mentally handicapped?

Quote from: Julie53 on April 17, 2013, 09:11:27 PM
Macho guys make great targets.  What about Blondes?  Cheerleaders?  I would take all of these to be typically cis, straight and white.  They seem to take their turn in the barrel with grace.

But it's not a joke about them being cis.

Quote from: DeeW on April 17, 2013, 08:44:34 PM
But when, exactly, do cis people get made fun of? Or straight people? Do white people in america media ever get it as bad as minorities? How about those who are not mentally handicapped?

It's not them being cis that is being made fun of it can be anything: they're skinny, they're fat, they're short, they're tall, they have glasses, they have an overbite, they have an underbite, they have braces, they have pimples, they have BO, they're poor, they're rich, and the list goes on.  Just because they are a majority (straight/white/cis) doesn't mean they don't have feelings and that being made fun of doesn't hurt them. 

In "Catfish in Black Bean Sauce", (which is about two Asian siblings who were adopted by a black couple) there's a scene where the main character is arguing with his roommate about his transgender girlfriend. At the end of the argument he says something like, "Enough, you're gay and I don't care what you say," or something like that. Then around the end of the movie you see this guy crying in his bed and then when he talks you find out it's actually her, and it's set up where it's "suppose" to be funny.

The main character's actor is also the person who wrote and produced the movie.

Quote from: randomroads on April 17, 2013, 05:35:09 PM
It would not be best to make everyone think exactly the same. Just as you are free to have your opinions you must respect the fact that others have the same freedom to theirs regardless if it jives with your morals or ethics.

I'd like to know who got rid of racism.

So we should allow others to freely hate and discriminate against trans* people?

It's not a matter of control or forcing people to "all think the same". It's a matter of respect for the rights of another human being.

If everyone had the freedom to take away everyone else's rights through hate and discrimination...the logical conclusion is that none of us would have freedom.

Respectfully,

-Skye