Hey all,

Let me preface this post by saying I am sorry for asking so many questions.  I have a tendency to over think things and get very scared about my transition.  Like many, I am able to see solutions for other's situations, but lack that same perspective for myself.  So, I am sorry for blabbing on so much.

Is it possible to start your transition in stealth?  Meaning can you start hormones and laser without anyone, including those who live with you, from knowing in the very beginning?  I really need to start because I have been getting very depressed by my lack of progress. Quite frankly, if I don't transition, I can't imagine continuing as life as a male for me is hell (don't worry, I would never do anything irrational, I know I have the option of transitioning and having a bright future).  The problem is I am not out to my family who I live with.  I have been waiting to come out and gain their acceptance before I start the process.  Yet, I am not ready to do that.  I need more time.  But at the same time, I need to start or I will fall into a very deep depression.  I just can't be forced to live as a male anymore.  It's not who I am nor what I want.

So, I really want to start laser hair removal, therapy, and hormones asap.  I want to do this without getting detected in the beginning. Is this possible? I know hormones take time, but my best friend who is mtf told me I will get caught very soon after starting.  I am unsure about laser, but would anyone really be able to tell I had it done?  With these aspects I know things are time sensitive.  So, how long would someone have to keep things hidden until it is noticeable?

Lastly, I am on my parents insurance, so I wouldn't be able to use their policy without them detecting something.  Does anyone have experience with seeing a gender therapist on a sliding scale?  I am fairly broke at the moment, so I don't know how reasonable the rates are for most of us.  What was your experience?  Also, if anyone has ever gone to Callen Lorde for hrt and used their sliding scale, what was your experience?  I just want to see what my options are.  I suppose I could ask my parents to give me the insurance card and tell them I want to see a therapist in general.  However, it will be a big hint because the therapist and practice I want to go to is very known for trans issues.  So, I don't know if I could hide it from them when using my insurance policy.

Once again, thank you for any suggestions.  And sorry I am like a broken record.  I have just been finding myself incredibly depressed by my lack of progress and need to start.  Sure, I am out to friends, vocal about my identity here, and go to a support group, but I really need to start the process that will allow me to live as a woman full time.  Yet, I still need more time before coming out to family.

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oh yeah. you can totally do this. just hide your hormones and deny deny deny 

Quote from: muuu on May 10, 2013, 12:18:37 PM
I don't think it'd be too hard... Changes comes slowly and aren't that obvious, I guess it's YMMV, as some might get next to no changes on HRT and others fast and a lot of changes on HRT. Laser might be more difficult to hide, but I'm sure there are reasons for a guy to have it, you just need to figure out a cover-up reason for it.

Major issues with deeply ingrown hairs, or something concerning capillaries that are too close to the surface of the skin come to mind. Alternatively a simple beauty treatment, as there are laser setups to exfoliate / renew the skin (okay, so you may have to be very metro to pull that one off ).

.

Hi there,
Unless you go around bare chested, I wouldn't see hormones being a big problem for a while but, if you are receptive to them, you can nevertheless expect to see your breasts "budding" within 2 to 3 months. Everything else is much slower and less perceptible.
Laser hair removal on the face is less agressive than electrolysis but is still very visible for a couple of days (like a rash) and of course, since it does remove all facial hair for a while, you would have to explain why you no longer have any beard.
IMHO laser removal of body hair should only be considered after HRT which will often dramatically decrease growth, in my own case it was 100%.
Wishing you all the best.   
Donna

Anything that goes through insurance is likely to be seen by your parents. Also, I don't know how old you are but some forms of treatment require parental approval if you are under legal age.

I started making changes around 13. My parents were very much opposed so of course there were a lot of fights with my mom but eventually she took an ignore-it-and-it-will-go-away attitude. That worked up until surgery - then I got disowned. But it got me to where I needed to be.

You should be able to hide it for a couple months at least but it's hard to say how long after that. I think how long you can conceal HRT depends on where you start: masculine, neutral, feminine. There was the other thread that said people see you as they have always seen you. I don't believe that. If you have never had gynemcomastia, there is the issue of breasts and
(where they came from) if they get too big.

A couple years ago, my best friend admonished me stop drinking milk as I obviously have some hormonal problem. And even still I'm going to have trouble explaining it away soon as they are getting a lot bigger and actually look like breasts now, not man boobs. An old acquaintance of mine a month ago straight asked why I look like a girl. I had drank with him a two months before and he didn't say anything then. So if those two get talking, they will figure it out. Everyone already suspects I am trans so that doesn't help matters.

So what I am saying is be prepared to not pass as a guy. But it's really hard to say for sure as I don't know your stats. NOTE: I don't think I look like a girl at all yet and I get she'd and her'd and flirted with. So your own eyes may deceive you.

Quote from: Northern Jane on May 10, 2013, 01:27:01 PM
Anything that goes through insurance is likely to be seen by your parents. Also, I don't know how old you are but some forms of treatment require parental approval if you are under legal age.

I started making changes around 13. My parents were very much opposed so of course there were a lot of fights with my mom but eventually she took an ignore-it-and-it-will-go-away attitude. That worked up until surgery - then I got disowned. But it got me to where I needed to be.

I am of legal age (in my early twenties), but I still live at home.  However, because I live at home, I kind of fear that any changes I make will be noticed by my mother and sister. 

Quote from: muuu on May 10, 2013, 12:18:37 PM
I don't think it'd be too hard... Changes comes slowly and aren't that obvious, I guess it's YMMV, as some might get next to no changes on HRT and others fast and a lot of changes on HRT. Laser might be more difficult to hide, but I'm sure there are reasons for a guy to have it, you just need to figure out a cover-up reason for it.

The thing is my mom would have a million questions. Most "men" don't get laser done and it would probably give my mom a huge hint about what is going on. So, I am guessing I will have to tell her before laser because that doesn't seem easy or possible to hide. I suppose that can be done after starting hrt and therapy.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 10, 2013, 01:46:36 PM
Do you mean taking HRT in the closet or like just full time and stealth outside the house?

Well both are possible... people around you don't notice changes that easily. And if you mean like actually going FT and stealth right away that is what I did and everything went ok.

As for insurance, you don't need to see a therapist if you find the right endo, and I was having the insurance problem for a while so I just asked my endo to change the dx code, she put it as hormone imbalance rather than GID. BUT they did put me as female in their system even though my license says M so I don't know if that matters.

You just have to remember though, very few people will actually suspect you of being trans. Even if they think it for a sec, they would never ACTUALLY think that unless they are really liberal, since to most people that's just so weird and out of the ballpark.

I am certainly not ready for full time.  I just want to start the process without anyone that I live with detecting it.  Because I live with my mom, I am afraid she will stop me from transitioning under her roof. And honestly, I can say I would not want to live anymore if I can't transition. I really can't afford my own place at the moment, especially with all the costs that transitioning brings about.  So, I feel like waiting till the right time to tell her.  But, I need to start.

Even though I don't need therapy to start or tell me who I am, I feel like having someone to guide me and help me develop courage would be helpful.  I am very scared about societal and familial rejection.  I need to develop the strength to handle those possibilities.  Yet, I am very doubtful about paying for the therapy without using the insurance.  Sliding scale options are probably not viable in the long run.  Since, I am on my father's policy I will have to let them know something.  Maybe I will just tell them I am very depressed and need someone to speak with.  Hell, that is true even if I am not telling them everything.  Besides I have gone through treatment for depression and social anxiety before.  I suppose they won't even realize the therapist I am seeing specializes in transgender issues. 

Anyways, sorry to be such a downer lately.  I am just sick of not making progress and keep on getting more depressed about it everyday.  Crying on a daily basis and hating myself for being stuck as a guy is not a viable option anymore.  I just wish it were easy to come out and I could have my families unconditional support. I feel like I have to hide it in order to progress, but feel like I can't progress when in hiding. And I hate hiding this from my mom because we are extremely close. 

I really feel for you, learningtolive. I really think you should start the process. Possibly, you could go on a low dose of HRT and then it would probably take a little longer for any changes to become noticable. More then likely, you will be able to hide the changes for awhile and perhaps you should not get laser and keep a little facial hair to mask some of the effects? I think this could work. I'll try to think of some other options as well. YOU CAN DO THIS! We're all here to help each other and I really want to see you succeed and be happy. You're such a cool, sweet person and you deserve to be happy.

Having been in the position of observer of someone almost twice your age who didn't say they were on hrt.. I can tell you I noticed changes (face etc), but didn't put things together until I saw them (mostly) naked, in which case it was obvious. So, I would think how long you'd get away with would depend on whether you get undressed around your family members and how familiar they are with hrt effects... Basically, I think they'd notice.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 10, 2013, 03:46:59 PM
You need to find someone IRL you can safely come out to who will support you and help ya gain confidence, and really feel that you won't be alone...

LTL, I verify that advice, 100%.  It has made a huge difference for me, I can tell you.

I think what's key  here is your age. There will likely be very little change because in a sense you're already there. Younger girls take E so as not to change. It's often said here that the sooner the better, which is true but it's also true that the change will likely be greater in an older gal

Addressing the specific facial laser point - I've had 6 'stealth' sessions of that, and it's worked really well - but I haven't had to explain anything to anyone, short-term or long term. One day I had laser in the morning, and a long meeting with the boss in the afternoon, and all he said was that I looked 'flushed'.

I can only offer experience with laser pre-HRT but I'm the same as Pexetta. I've had 3 laser sessions now and no one has ever said anything to me about it. You can blame the initial redness on sunburn, any number of skin conditions and for hair loss, just shave daily and no one will notice. I've got thick dark hair and I've really responded well to laser already but between the first and second visit there was pretty obvious patchiness if I didnt shave, if you have lighter facial hair no one would probably notice at all. Again, blame it on alopecia, if anyone confronts you about it. You can tell them your losing hair because they're stressing you out about asking questions all the time
FYI, it is SOO good kissing goodbye to a beard! Little by little, it is surely going

Everyone,

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies.  It really means a lot.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on May 10, 2013, 03:43:04 PM
I really feel for you, learningtolive. I really think you should start the process. Possibly, you could go on a low dose of HRT and then it would probably take a little longer for any changes to become noticable. More then likely, you will be able to hide the changes for awhile and perhaps you should not get laser and keep a little facial hair to mask some of the effects? I think this could work. I'll try to think of some other options as well. YOU CAN DO THIS! We're all here to help each other and I really want to see you succeed and be happy. You're such a cool, sweet person and you deserve to be happy.

Thanks for your kind words, I really appreciate it.  I'm not very keen on taking a low dose of hrt.  I want the full effects and want it to hit me as soon as possible.  To be honest, I am interested in going full time as soon as I can.  I just want to hide the initial changes from family until I am ready to come out.  However, I think I'm really going to have to come out soon if I am going to be serious about my transition.  I just don't want to get rejected and have those who live with me stop me from moving forward. 

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 10, 2013, 03:46:59 PM
You need to find someone IRL you can safely come out to who will support you and help ya gain confidence, and really feel that you won't be alone and rejected by everyone when you transition. Really, it will help your feelings a lot. I don't really know much about support groups but I think that is a good thing to try, there is probably a billion near you since you're in a big city too. Then hopefully you will click with someone.

I mean it... I struggled really bad with the rejection feelings thing and it just was such a waste of time. I so regret waiting years to come out just because I was afraid of my parents. It feels so stupid now.

Actually, I have been out to some of my best friends for quite some time.   They have all been supportive and refer to me with the proper pronouns.  Well, one friend stopped talking to me and became awkward, but it wasn't a hostile rejection.  Also, I have been going to a support group and have been talking about it all in person.  There is an overwhelming consensus that I should come out to my mom, but I'm scared.  Because I live under her roof and have no way of moving out, I need her approval in order to continue.  Yet everyone is telling me to do that first.  I made a mother of a transgender woman cry at my group because my hesitance reminds me of her daughter who struggled to come out.  She told me most parents just want their kids to be honest and would feel more upset if one was to hide it.  So, I don't know.

Quote from: cynths on May 10, 2013, 06:28:51 PM
I can only offer experience with laser pre-HRT but I'm the same as Pexetta. I've had 3 laser sessions now and no one has ever said anything to me about it. You can blame the initial redness on sunburn, any number of skin conditions and for hair loss, just shave daily and no one will notice. I've got thick dark hair and I've really responded well to laser already but between the first and second visit there was pretty obvious patchiness if I didnt shave, if you have lighter facial hair no one would probably notice at all. Again, blame it on alopecia, if anyone confronts you about it. You can tell them your losing hair because they're stressing you out about asking questions all the time
FYI, it is SOO good kissing goodbye to a beard! Little by little, it is surely going

While I think it is possible to hide it from many, I am unsure about those who live with me.  They see me everyday and can tell if something is off or has changed. Maybe I am thinking too much about it though.

Quote from: summerbreeze on May 10, 2013, 08:25:23 PM
In my opinion - First of all, stop apologizing for asking questions. You are doing what this forum is for, if I'm not wrong.

The other thing is - Keep in mind...The first cut is the deepest. You have no other chance, you MUST come-out at least to those who are living close to you. You cannot transition on your parent's insurance but not telling them anything. Talk to them, no matter the result. You have to bear all consequences, one day or later, but you have to. And do it before you're going crazy. Active action is the best medicine against depression.

Thank for all you kind words.  I think you are probably right.  I just want to make sure I get my mom's acceptance because once she knows my transition is sort of in her hands.  If she wants to sto me from doing this under her roof, that will set me back from transitioning for a long time.  I can't live with that result because I REALLY need to transition for my own happiness and sanity.  Being forced to live as a male for me is a fate worse than death (no offense to all the boys out there).   I am hoping she will accept it because I don't know what to do if she doesn't.

TLDR but technically what you're implying is not what is commonly referred to as being stealth. What you're asking is whether or not you can transition in the closet. And the answer is no. Being stealth and living fully assimilated is a privilege that is directly linked to your level of passability.

Transcend your fear of judgment or be destroyed by it.

Hi

I just went and started lazer on my face a while ago, 10 sessions later not one person has made a comment, this was a surprise to me. I had to shave twice a day and the shaddow was so dark I could not escape it.
From what I found out most people can not see what is right in front of them as they are so preoccupied with their own issue so I never thought twice about it.

It was hard to start with menatally but I just made an appointment and went from there and have not looked back.
I have had face, front, back and legs done so far and not once do they ask why. I just told them I hate it and wanted to get rid of it and that was that.

It made me feel very happy inside with myself and has helped me significantly taking some maleness away.
Yes I am red and hairs quite noticable for about 5 days but most is nearly all gone and I am so happy.

In my opinion just make an appointment and start if that is what you want and don't worry about others.
I see lazer as a first step as it does take some time to remove the hairs before starting HRT as it will make it much easier later.

Hope this helps
J

Quote from: learningtolive on May 10, 2013, 09:43:48 PM


Thank for all you kind words.  I think you are probably right.  I just want to make sure I get my mom's acceptance because once she knows my transition is sort of in her hands.  If she wants to sto me from doing this under her roof, that will set me back from transitioning for a long time.  I can't live with that result because I REALLY need to transition for my own happiness and sanity.  Being forced to live as a male for me is a fate worse than death (no offense to all the boys out there).   I am hoping she will accept it because I don't know what to do if she doesn't.

Hi there young lady,
Are you by any chance a Scorpio ie. born between 21st Oct and 21st Nov ? I am not a great believer in astrology but the way you ask yourself more or less the same questions over and over points to the sort of anguished existence Scorpios are supposed to lead...
Just kidding by the way, but reading this thread reminded me of a previous one to which I made the following contribution:

Hi,
Unless you have some obvious reason to imagine your mother and others close to you are intrinsically hostile to all those who do not quite correspond to standard gender models, you would seem to have everything to gain from coming out. For starters, you would be amazed at how good it feels to just stop hiding . No matter what you do afterwards, by dropping the mask you are opening up more space to be who you are. At minimum, you should be able to get away with lots of little things which probably have you worrying about being found out right now.
An even  more optimistic scenario is that you encounter understanding and maybe even a helping hand. In families where bonds are strong, after the initial suprise, supposing there is one, it is probably the most frequent outcome.  

You more or less agreed at the time, 26th April, and reading this I can't help but think that you would make life dramatically easier for yourself by doing so, with very very little to lose compared to what you could gain.
Wishing you all the best.
Bises
Donna

In my experience, there's a fair bit that you can get done without anyone noticing.

I had electro done in my late 20s - no one batted an eyelid about it - it was pretty much imperceptible to the people around me.
I've been on low dose HRT for a year now and only one of my friends has commented on my face looking a bit "thinner".  With HRT, obviously what will happen will vary drastically from person to person depending on the dose.  My personal experience on low dose is that it hasn't outed me to anyone, and that suits me fine as I don't intend on transitioning.