Have any of you ever heard of female identified people who transition to masculinise their bodies? Like get top surgery and/or go on hormone therapy? Just curious. I've recently been told this kind of thing happens, and I had no idea. Im kinda surprised.

Yeah, I've never met anyone who has done it, but i know there are butch lesbians who have gotten top surgery (and call themselves female and butch lesbians still). And then those who have taken hormones, I think only for a shorter period of time and then they stop.

Watch woman's wrestling lol

Testosterone written all over them....

Quote from: Prof HB on May 09, 2013, 09:25:11 PM
Yeah, I've never met anyone who has done it, but i know there are butch lesbians who have gotten top surgery (and call themselves female and butch lesbians still). And then those who have taken hormones, I think only for a shorter period of time and then they stop.

Oh wow, that's just...amazing. I always thought those medical procedures were for transmen only. I'm learning so much hanging around these communities. It's really awesome how varied human beings are.

Quote from: XchristineX on May 09, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
Watch woman's wrestling lol

Testosterone written all over them....

Lol true!

Quote from: QuestionKnot on May 09, 2013, 09:29:26 PM
Oh wow, that's just...amazing. I always thought those medical procedures were for transmen only. I'm learning so much hanging around these communities. It's really awesome how varied human beings are.

Yes, like HB said I've heard of butch lesbians who have gotten top surgery. Some butch lesbians have chest dysphoria but do not identify as male.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 09, 2013, 10:11:21 PM
Actually brow-related (masculinizing) surgeries are apparently trendy in the UK or something.

Huh. Never knew that. I'll have to look into it.

Christine has a point. There are cis women on steroids. There are reasons women may want testosterone or steroids for things other than transition/wanting to be male. Women sometimes take testosterone for libido reasons and of course athletes and body builders may like the added strength and muscle building effects. I don't know what other reason would compel top surgery, but women do all kinds of things to their breasts from implants to reductions, so complete removal may just be one of those things.

 My sister wants to get top surgery. She also wishes she were 6' tall and muscular. She wears her hair short, and dresses androgynously, and doesn't care about what anyone thinks.

However, she does not identify as male... and has no desire to go on T. She's just being who she wants to be.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on May 09, 2013, 11:58:35 PM
Christine has a point. There are cis women on steroids. There are reasons women may want testosterone or steroids for things other than transition/wanting to be male. Women sometimes take testosterone for libido reasons and of course athletes and body builders may like the added strength and muscle building effects. I don't know what other reason would compel top surgery, but women do all kinds of things to their breasts from implants to reductions, so complete removal may just be one of those things.

Ever heard of women who do masculinize themselves to look more like men specifically?

I don't know if transition is the right word since they don't actually go anywhere with it. But butch women do get top surgery and there are even others that do, due to being very large and hating it. And T, well as someone said lots of reasons for T. But I do know of some butch type genderqueer women who take T. I think they are trans. Some people who do these things may actually be trans and not know they are trans. I can certainly see how that is for older people.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on May 11, 2013, 01:06:49 AM
But I do know of some butch type genderqueer women who take T. I think they are trans. Some people who do these things may actually be trans and not know they are trans. I can certainly see how that is for older people.

--Jay

Hey Jay
Just curious why do you believe the women who take T are probably trans? How does one not know they're trans? You mean denial?

Quote from: QuestionKnot on May 14, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
How does one not know they're trans? You mean denial?

Might be denial. Also might be ignorance. Until I was 50, I had no idea. I believed the silly myths that all transgender women always knew they were women, felt like women trapped in men's bodies, and hated their male parts. So I thought there had to be some other reason why I always wanted to be a woman.

It was only after I started meeting actual transgender women that I realized how varied the transgender experience is and how clearly my story fit.

I was in a Transgender support group a few weeks ago. A volunteer was setting up a projector and stayed for our documentary on transgender. The volunteer must have been in their 40's or 50's. They stayed to watch the documentary, after which they declared "That's me. That's why I've wanted to be a man all these years. That's why I've always felt like I should have man parts. It's because I'm transgender!" It was a major realization for them.

So it does happen.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on May 09, 2013, 11:58:35 PM
Christine has a point. There are cis women on steroids. There are reasons women may want testosterone or steroids for things other than transition/wanting to be male. Women sometimes take testosterone for libido reasons and of course athletes and body builders may like the added strength and muscle building effects. I don't know what other reason would compel top surgery, but women do all kinds of things to their breasts from implants to reductions, so complete removal may just be one of those things.

I know women use a small amount to bump up their libido, I do that myself because my feminizing process is pretty much all in so it doesn't hurt. I know that firewomen sometimes do as well because they have to be able to pick up a grown man and carry him out of a fire and hump a fire hose up several stories of stairwell.

It's unfortunately very commonplace where I'm from. Since trans men have only recently been coming into the public eye (or even the eye of most lgbt people) a lot of people still mistakenly think of trans men as levelled up butch lesbians and it is common for butch lesbians who have this misconception to want to transition purely for the aesthetics and not because they think of themselves as men.

Quote from: QuestionKnot on May 14, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
Hey Jay
Just curious why do you believe the women who take T are probably trans? How does one not know they're trans? You mean denial?

trans isn't only transsexual. i'm not transsexual, but still want at least partial transition, or body modifications if that's a better way to call it. i do know i'm trans though, just more of and androgyne or bigender, possibly fluid or queer person. if you asked me what i identify as today, it would probably be "uhh..."
being in a situation like this can make it really difficult to realize you're some kind of trans, i wouldn't mind identifying as a woman if i could still modify my body more to my own liking.

Quote from: Alekibutt on May 19, 2013, 05:53:38 AM
It's unfortunately very commonplace where I'm from. Since trans men have only recently been coming into the public eye (or even the eye of most lgbt people) a lot of people still mistakenly think of trans men as levelled up butch lesbians and it is common for butch lesbians who have this misconception to want to transition purely for the aesthetics and not because they think of themselves as men.

Unfortunate? Why so? Do you have to be male to want a more masculine body?

Quote from: Taka on May 19, 2013, 06:15:56 AM
trans isn't only transsexual. i'm not transsexual, but still want at least partial transition, or body modifications if that's a better way to call it. i do know i'm trans though, just more of and androgyne or bigender, possibly fluid or queer person. if you asked me what i identify as today, it would probably be "uhh..."
being in a situation like this can make it really difficult to realize you're some kind of trans, i wouldn't mind identifying as a woman if i could still modify my body more to my own liking.

I think I see what your saying. So trans people can be people who want to modify their physical gender expression [even if its not all the way]? I guess that makes sense. I mean someone who did that is a gender variant in a way.

Quote from: QuestionKnot on May 20, 2013, 09:43:40 PM
Unfortunate? Why so? Do you have to be male to want a more masculine body?

You don't have to be male to want that. Many bon-binary gender people also want or need body modicifations fully or partially to the opposite of their body's birth sex. But it could get a little problematic if cis people started doing it as a fashion thing. I'm not sure if it's a problem though, it can't be all that much worse than other body modifications so lonf as the person really wants it and ia ok with any consequences. Might make it a little harder for transsexuals to gain the recognition they need if too many cis people do a partial transition, i can imagine gender police refusing to take a trans man for a man if cis women also do the same transition.

QuoteI think I see what your saying. So trans people can be people who want to modify their physical gender expression [even if its not all the way]? I guess that makes sense. I mean someone who did that is a gender variant in a way.

I'd suspect them of being some kind of gender variant who's not aware that there are other genders than just male and female. But i wouldn't be too surprised if they turn out to be cissexual. I'm sure people can find many other reasons than their own gender identity for transitioning.

Quote from: QuestionKnot on May 14, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
Hey Jay
Just curious why do you believe the women who take T are probably trans? How does one not know they're trans? You mean denial?

Well there are body builders who take T and also post-menopausal women, don't think they are trans. But wasn't referring to them. I am referring to people who would take T for some other reason. Someone said that cross hormones in someone who feels they benefit, is like taking Wellbutrin-- I'd describe it that way.

But  as someone said, I don't mean transsexual. I coulda shoulda used an asterisk like this trans*.  They might be in denial or they might not know what it is/or what they are feeling. They may take a lower dose and never actually *transition*. Or they might transition Female to Androgyne (FtA). But Androgyne or Genderqueer is still trans*.

If someone feels the need to modify their body (other than a strictly weight lifting sort of thing or like fire women) well the desire to do this sounds gender bending to me. Why would someone who was comfortable in their body want a different body?

There is a butch person on youtube (not sure if I would give her name)  hasn't taken T, but she is someone who, I'd consider trans* but I think IDs as butch. She has a lot of gender questions and that sort of thing typical for a trans* person-- perhaps more genderqueer. I think butch can go into being trans* tbh. It's a semantics thing, I suppose.


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on May 21, 2013, 06:53:54 PM

There is a butch person on youtube (not sure if I would give her name)  hasn't taken T, but she is someone who, I'd consider trans* but I think IDs as butch. She has a lot of gender questions and that sort of thing typical for a trans* person-- perhaps more genderqueer. I think butch can go into being trans* tbh. It's a semantics thing, I suppose.

Interesting. Mind giving me the name in a pm?

Quote from: aleon515 on May 11, 2013, 01:06:49 AM
But I do know of some butch type genderqueer women who take T. I think they are trans. Some people who do these things may actually be trans and not know they are trans. I can certainly see how that is for older people.

--Jay

I also have a friend who is bi gender Zir is seriously considering T and also binds often.
I have also read about others who do this.