What trans related words do you hate that other people say? (yes we all know the "T" word obviously)

If you could remove a (trans related) word, phrase, or term from society, what would it be?

Pick one that annoys you most...not just the obvious ones...

I'll start!

The phrase "The Surgery" annoys me to no end because it assumes that all transsexuals desire srs and non-op people don't exist.

Also...the word transgendered, using transgender as a noun (ex. The Transgender went for dinner), or even using transsexual as a noun.

There are a few slurs I'd rather didn't exist, but I don't want to say them because they are very offensive.
Using transgender as a noun bugs me too.

You will get thick skinned eventually..
You also can't assume the whole world is politically correct..
Skye I'm an Indian...Think of all the things I've been called...

I got over it and so will you..

Although the worst one of all is the B word for me usually

Quote from: XchristineX on May 16, 2013, 12:22:16 AM
You will get thick skinned eventually..
You also can't assume the whole world is politically correct..
Skye I'm an Indian...Think of all the things I've been called...

I got over it and so will you..

Although the worst one of all is the B word for me usually

I don't actually don't care what other people say anymore...because I am who I am and I can't change that.

I just find certain words to be annoying...so I thought I'd start a thread.

Quote from: kyh on May 16, 2013, 01:23:26 AM
I don't like the whole "gender identity disorder" thing. I'd rather have it be called "Gender Incongruency" as the gender we were assigned at birth doesn't match the gender we identify with. I don't think I have some sort of psychological problem, rather a physiological one, and so the term "gender identity disorder" is misleading in my eyes.

I totally agree.

As of this may...GID doesn't exist anymore in the DSM V. They replaced it with gender dysphoria.

Quote from: Skye-Blue on May 16, 2013, 01:25:56 AM
I totally agree.

As of this may...GID doesn't exist anymore in the DSM V. They replaced it with gender dysphoria.

Omg that is SO much better! I think that's an acceptable substitute, and it's not misleading like gender identity disorder is.

That's great to hear!

Gender bender pisses me off

I don't mind people getting my gender mixed up, he, she, hers, his, etc. (I am still fairly new into transitioning that I do it myself).   But not IT. I am a person not a thing.

"Born a man." I want to stab something every time I see that phrase. I dunno about you all, but I'm pretty sure I was born a baby.

Using incorrect gender pronouns for when people are pre-transition or even pre-surgery is obnoxious and falls into the sensationalist "transformation narrative" that the media seems to endlessly obsess about, and comes with all kinds of pre-conceptions about our identities and bodies and what transition entails.

And I seriously wish "MtF" and "FtM" would quietly die off for similar reasons.

I didn't transition to become female. I transitioned because I am female.

Sarah, don't you think that the terms "MtF" and "FtM" originally described changes in the body morphology.

That is to say, in the first instance, a male-bodied person transitioning to a more phenotypical female form?

I don't like the way we're described to be "trapped in the wrong body". It doesn't feel like that at all for me.

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 16, 2013, 09:23:52 AM
I don't like the way we're described to be "trapped in the wrong body". It doesn't feel like that at all for me.

I agree with you on that one...I actually like certain parts of my body...if I was given the choice to switch bodies, it would be a difficult decision for me. Nor do I feel "trapped" in any sense...just that parts of my body are wrong and  other parts are okay.

Hmm...  I can't say anything really gets to me.  Words are just words.  What bothers me is the connotation the word is used in.  For example, the word transgender can be used as a positive, pejorative or simply descriptive word.  It's not the words themselves.  The phrasing and usage of the words, however, can be a very big deal.  In a way, it describes how people really feel and what they're thinking. 

While some terms do Not apply to everyone, they Do apply to many.

I was born with Male/Man parts.

I am "trapped in the wrong body", I am MtF (man parts to Female parts), that term does apply to my situation.

We cover a large group of issues here, all of them "unique".

And we give each person the chance and right to choose their own terms.

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 16, 2013, 09:23:52 AM
I don't like the way we're described to be "trapped in the wrong body". It doesn't feel like that at all for me.

Exactly. I happen to enjoy having arms and legs and a head, and I love being able to do so many things with my hands. I love being able to breathe, eat things and do stuff like putting feet into shoes and wearing clothes.

It's just one or two odd bits that I'm not happy about and the various assumptions people make because of them.

Quote from: Jamie D on May 16, 2013, 03:49:27 AM
Sarah, don't you think that the terms "MtF" and "FtM" originally described changes in the body morphology.

That is to say, in the first instance, a male-bodied person transitioning to a more phenotypical female form?

But that's thing. I don't consider myself to be or have been male-bodied. I'm a trans female. I was born a trans female. I'll die a trans female.

Transition is the act of undoing the damage inflicted on my form via testosterone - first in the womb, then during puberty, followed by estrogen to induce the correct puberty. But my brain, and ergo my physicality are just as female as they always were.

I need that stability because I don't self-identify based on gender. "Woman" doesn't really mean a whole lot to me. Which means "male-bodied" or "MtF" are contradicting my own lived experience. My dysphoria was a result of my brain contradicting the rest of my form. But my brain is a PART of that form, the most important part. And I refuse to subordinate it to my crotch and claim that I was ever male.

Also my government agrees with me! As far as they are concerned, I've always been female. I was inaccurately labelled male at birth, but that was corrected in 2012.

In the end it's all just a matter of semantics and definitions...

Jamie's point is that mtf and ftm are a way of classifying where a person is heading in their physical and social transition. And when she spoke of "form" she was meaning "outer physical form" not including the brain. Without the classifications of mtf and ftm we may as well try to describe a mountain without words, art, or music. Do you see what I'm getting at, its all about definition

Mtf doesn't mean that a person "used to be a man" or that an ftm "used to be a woman"...it just means that our outer forms resembled a sex opposite to our brains.

Interesting post though...I remember reading the same thing in Julia Serrano's "Whipping Girl". Thanks for sharing.

Warmest regards,

-Skye

Quote from: Skye-Blue on May 16, 2013, 11:41:49 PM
In the end it's all just a matter of semantics and definitions...

Jamie's point is that mtf and ftm are a way of classifying where a person is heading in their physical and social transition. And when she spoke of "form" she was meaning "outer physical form" not including the brain. Without the classifications of mtf and ftm we may as well try to describe a mountain without words, art, or music. Do you see what I'm getting at, its all about definition

Mtf doesn't mean that a person "used to be a man" or that an ftm "used to be a woman"...it just means that our outer forms resembled a sex opposite to our brains.

Interesting post though...I remember reading the same thing in Julia Serrano's "Whipping Girl". Thanks for sharing.

Warmest regards,

-Skye

Of course it's all semantics and definitions. And if that wasn't important, then trans women wouldn't be bothered by people calling them he and man and sir and we would hardly bother to change our names. But the truth is that words are extremely important.

When you say "outer physical form" what are you talking about? My crotch? What about trans women who never have "the surgery" are they always male-bodied? Are breasts the defining feature? There are plenty of dudes with boobs. Maybe it's passability... only I was regularly gendered female before I even started thinking about transition. Hormones? There we are back to non-visible characteristics. Bodies don't always categorize so neatly into "male" and "female."

And you have to remember that not all of us are coming from the same place or have the same self-perception. Which obviously you must realize given you have "non-binary" on your profile. I'm also non-binary. Of a kind that is often described as "agender," though I don't particularly like the term (semantics again!). Which means I don't have any internal sense of gender. I'm classified by my society as a woman, but to me that is a side effect of my form, not an intrinsic part of my identity.

My experience of my body as female through the lens of my dysphoria, on the other hand, is an intrinsic part of my identity. So really I don't mind that much if you want to say I used to be a man (boy would be more accurate though). In some ways, I'd agree with that assessment. I WAS categorized and lived my life as a boy. That is correct. However, I was a female that was taking on that particular gender in society. Now I've taken on a different role as a result of the changes I've made to my flesh and my legal status. But the female part remains a constant.

So, ya, to me, saying I was male-bodied is far more problematic and inaccurate than saying I was a man. Though I still find that trope of "man to woman" obnoxious because of the history of its usage. (Words have the power to control and diminish, among other things.)

As to the necessity? There are alternatives that I'm perfectly comfortable with. Like male-assigned at birth (MAAB), which has the virtue of being explicitly accurate without offering any additional assumptions regarding bodies or identities.

Anyway, just another perspective. I'm an editor so I kind of love words.

I've never looked at the term MAAB in that way before...maybe I'll start using it from now on

I definitely like the term MAAB over mtf now.

Thanks for the interesting conversation

I'm a writer so I'm in love with words too, but in my mind, intent has always trumped semantics. Semantics are important, as they help to convey intent, but I've never felt it was right to get miffed with someone using words you don't like without malice.

Sarah, you make good semantic arguments, but at the end of the day trying to be overly semantically correct will drive you insane, probably after it drives everyone around you insane. Words are wonderful, but imperfect. We need to be understanding of those imperfections.

Remember, male and female are more than just genders, they are also biological sexes. Also remember that our society has constructed male and female gender roles. Even if you always identified as a specific gender, if you were raised in one role and transitioned to another, those terms describe that. Those terms also describe the people who choose to utilize HRT and SRS to transition biologically.

I don't think MTF or FTM were ever meant to describe a change in identity.

I think it's important to recognize that the terms male and female describe both gender and sex, and these are two things that are different and not always congruent. From a biological standpoint, there are physical features that define your sex as male or female, even if your gender is incongruous with that definition. Sex is a physical, biological thing. Gender is an identity. Your gender can be constant, without requiring your sex to be so.

I'm not denying it's not all so simple. Things get more complicated with intersexed individuals, for example. It would probably be better if sex and gender weren't so tied up together in language, but that's what we have.

Also, you are of course always free to not identify yourself with any word or phrase you dislike. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine. It's perfectly acceptable to reject a word or phrase for personal reasons and ask others not to apply it to you. That doesn't necessitate getting irritated with the word or phrase itself, however.

Again, words are imperfect. We can get into the thought experiment of whether my "red" is the same as your "red," and go from there to a point where we render words rather useless. At the end of the day, words are just tools, icons to represent ideas.

Certainly, we should strive to be as accurate and clear as possible, but we can't push it to a point where we need a new word or phrase to describe every individual situation, else the lexicon would become impossible to wield. I know a world without labels is appealing to some, but it's really not feasible. We humans do so love our categories.

I'm rather new to this community and I'll be the first to admit I have a lot to learn, so please realize these are just my thoughts and I'm not trying to sound preachy. I hope I didn't give any offense.