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To Step Up Or Not To Against Offensive Jokes

Started by Brayden, May 16, 2013, 09:52:57 PM

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Brayden

Last fall while sitting in my college drawing class I over heard a conversation where these people (whom I later became friends with) were discussing what their trans (only they did not say "trans") names would be and continued with a slew of transphobic jokes and comments. Because I am 100% stealth and living at college I was afraid to say something but thinking back I regret it tremendously. I could of just said that that is offensive or inappropriate in general but because I was still trying to get comfortable at school I sat there angrily. Like I said I just recently became friends with one of the girls partaking in the jokes and she is a good person who I know would not intend on offending anyone. Its like a stabbing pain that I was afraid to say anything but I guess in the end I have grown from that expierence and know when to and when not to say anything.

Has anyone else have any similar experiences where they are in a position of either standing up or just letting it go in fear of coming out?
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kyh

I think it's best just to ignore it. You're stealth for a reason right?

I myself wouldn't have said a thing. As cold as that may seem :S
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xander

I'm stealth and I would say something. Depending on the circumstances. If it was just a word or two here and there that was offensive but obviously not intentionally so, I'd probably let it go. If it was really offensive, ignorant jokes then I would definitely say something. You can stand up for the rights of a minority without being part of the minority, so I don't see what the problem is. You can be stealth and stand up for your brothers and sisters.
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AnarchoChloe

Deciding to speak out against transphobic or any other oppressive speech is always a hard choice, Bradan.  Especially if you're stealth and not wanting to draw any unwanted attention to yourself.  But at the same time, their jokes hurt you and made you angry.  You have the right to be offended and ask them to think about the hurtfulness of their words.  You don't even have to be speaking as a transperson at that point, but just a decent human who wants to be an ally.  You don't have to be gay to speak against homophobia, or a person of color to speak against racist behavior.  At the end of the day, though, it's your call as to how much ignorance you can allow to pass by unremarked upon.  We all deal with things in different ways.  Mine just happen to be prickly and opinionated. :)
"By seeking to free others we find the strength to free ourselves."
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AdamMLP

I wouldn't have said anything, but I present and live as such a butch lesbian it really wouldn't take much imagination for them to realise I was trans if I said something. I don't like ignoring transphobia, but I think doing what's necessary to stay safe is what's important.

However, if I was living as stealth and passed really well so that it wouldn't be an immediate outing I would have said something, but not got too heated about it. You could always say your cousins trans or something.
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King Malachite

I haven't transitioned yet but I personally wouldn't say anything.  I would rather play it safe but I commend those who would say something against it.
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"Sometimes you have to go through outer hell to get to inner heaven."

"Anomalies can make the best revolutionaries."
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kyh

Quote from: Malachite on May 17, 2013, 02:29:13 AM
I haven't transitioned yet but I personally wouldn't say anything.  I would rather play it safe but I commend those who would say something against it.

I agree. A single remark from us won't change their world view, it could just get them annoyed or maybe even suspicious.
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xander

Quote from: Bradán on May 16, 2013, 09:52:57 PM
I was afraid to say something but thinking back I regret it tremendously.

This is the key sentence.
If he regrets it then he should do something next time. Living with regrets is the worst kind of living.
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Cindy

Well, I know I have a different outlook on life and walk my path, and my apologies, this will sound very harsh, but maybe I'm just an old woman who has seen too much.
None of this is personal to anyone, it is a generalisation.

It is hard standing up for principles and yes it can get you in trouble and yes it can get you hurt.

""But OK it was just a joke, it was just a bunch of guys with pillow cases over their heads, I'm sure they didn't mean to burn people. ""

""It was just a bunch of loonies insulting Jews, I didn't know they would slaughter millions.
If I'd known I'd have said something."" - Would you have?

Closer to our lives, ""the boys were just drunk and playing up - she was drunk it is her fault she was raped. It's her fault, besides I'd be unpopular if I intervened, they are jocks for goddess sake!""

"" There are so many starving kids, my contribution won't help""

So when you walk into a store and someone insults you, take it on the chin; you never did anything to help others - why should others help you?

When you go for a job and the person  says, "No, listen I like trans*people, I have a Gay hairdresser for Goddess sake, I don't discriminate!! But my customers wouldn't like it, so I can't employ you"

Just walk out and accept it, because you have done nothing to ask others to help you.

Things do change, but only because people like you and me make a stand. We don't have to be heroes, we don't have to lay down our lives.

We just stand for our principles.

I apologise if I have offended anyone

Cindy



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Edge

I agree with Cindy. Personally, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from standing up as I have before for other reasons.
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Simon

I can empathize with your situation. I was with my gf at a Border's Books a few years back. We were sitting in two of the chairs that are scattered about the store when one of my gf's old High School friends came up to her (the friend worked there).

Long story short, the girl was just chatting in a very friendly tone when she said she had to go because "the resident ->-bleeped-<- needed to go on lunch break". My gf was taken aback a bit and my blood instantly started to boil. My gf just said, "Huh" while I literally buried my head in the magazine I was looking at until the girl walked off.

I was livid. My gf was just dumbfounded that this girl she knew for years would be so discriminatory. The sad thing is neither one of us said anything. We just got up and quietly walked out. My gf cut all ties with that girl after that but I doubt the girl was smart enough to realize why. I wish I would have said something but didn't...out of self preservation. When these things happen it catches you off guard.
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Chamillion

YES you can stand up to offensive jokes without outing yourself.

This happened about a month ago. A co-worker, who before this I thought was all around pretty cool, expressed her opinion on a trans woman who went into the women's bathroom, saying stuff like "I wouldn't be comfortable, what if 'he' is trying to look at people". I asked her why she would even think that, she's just trying to use the bathroom like anyone else. And I told her to not say this stuff around me and that it's inappropriate to say at work anyway. Did she suspect I was trans? No! She realized that I had a good point and she shouldn't have been saying hurtful things about a human being.

There have been other instances as well. In most cases, the person wasn't being malicious, just ignorant. People have some weird ideas about who trans people are but most know they were wrong when called out. Others are truly hateful and those are the ones to not bother with, they won't change and you'll probably just get upset.
;D
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Jack_M

I personally would have said something if people said something offensive.  The way I see it, lots of people stand up for gay people that aren't gay.  That didn't happen overnight, it's developed over time.  The problem always comes up with people saying something like "What does it matter to you, are you gay/trans?" The best reply, "What difference would that make?"  It neither answers in confirmation or denial but instead strengthens the objection.  It actually ends up making one seem more like they're not because anyone that worried about it would be assumed to react more with denial, coming across like, "Oh god, no, but...it's...uhh...wrong to be offensive!" and that's the jig up right there.  Anyone who cares about any groups' rights doesn't have to be a part of that group but by caring they demonstrate that they wouldn't be ashamed to be, so that's how it's best to answer.

Look at the hate Westboro church get from everyone, not just homosexuals!  Folk walking around in "Gay? Fine by me!" tees.  You don't have to be trans to stand up for the trans community.  In fact I've seen an example of someone stepping in and shutting down someone's offensive comments before I got in myself and they aren't trans nor even knew that I was!  So I wouldn't even let the idea of defending trans mean it's outing me and more seeing it more as leading the evolution of perceptions and limits of acceptance with regards to jokes ;).
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StellaB

Imagine a Saturday night around 11pm in Warsaw, Poland. Some people going out on the town, enjoying themselves, and others staying in. This is a Saturday in January. Piles of snow everywhere, it's icy underfoot and the temperature's around minus twenty.

But the trains are running. There's hardly any cancellations at Warsaw East station. Plenty of people in the queue buying tickets, around a dozen hot dog and hamburger stands, people waiting for trains or waiting for people to arrive by train.

Only nobody's using the waiting room.

The waiting room is a largish hall with white walls and rows of wooden benches. It stinks of sweat and stale urine and is full of middle-aged men and women, all dirty, dishevelled, smelly.

I'm heading home out of Warsaw in 2003 but I missed the 10.30pm train and now have to wait until just after 2am for a night train. I was delayed at the theatre where I worked as a director. Like moths to a light bulb several approach me asking for loose change, asking for a cup of tea. I send two with enough money to buy a large tray of tea and another of coffee and bring them back to the waiting room.

Some of the others and me we get talking. Who are these people? Why are they here?

Most of them were once part of the Polish Solidarity movement. They were the smallholding farmers and agricultural workers, factory workers, engineers, teachers, and they all had educations, families and once had homes and livelihoods.

The above were all the things they risked through the time of martial law and under the former regime distributing pamphlets, organizing strikes, marches, meetings, and so on. They risked interrogation, internment, imprisonment, loss of civic rights, or even worse. Even as late as October 1984 agents from Department IV of the Polish Internal Ministry murdered Father Jerzy Popieluszki for his Solidarity activism.

They all shared that common dream of freedom and liberty. The dream that became reality in 1989.

The reality was short-lived. Lech Walesa taking power started a new era in Poland, just like in the West, when factories were closed down and sold off and the smallholdings and farms privatized and the tenants evicted. For many it was a slippery slope of unemployment, poverty, divorce and homelessness.

Many of them didn't receive anything like welfare. Life was no more than a constant daily walk with meals foraged out of dustbins and litter bins and smoking discarded butt ends from the pavement when one was fortunate enough to have matches or a lighter.

They asked me to do something to help them or people like them and I promised them that I would.

This is why I'm an activist. I'm one of the lucky ones, I'm fortunate to have had some success from my artistic work and I'm in a more comfortable situation because I can afford to be openly trans. However since coming out and transitioning I feel morally obliged to devote some of my time to people who are less fortunate and don't have my possibilities.

Yeah sometimes I get positive attention from people and admiration even though I'd rather not. Rather than standing round and admiring me I'd much rather people followed my example and did something - just one thing - for people who are less fortunate than they are.

You see you could have a million other activists like me (you probably have many more), you can have an entire government of politicians passing all types of anti-discrimination legislation but none of this work has any meaning or value unless people make it part of their culture and mindset to stand up and be counted in the face of oppression.

After all, isn't this what solidarity is all about? 
"The truth within me is more than the reality which surrounds me."
Constantin Stanislavski

Mistakes not only provide opportunities for learning but also make good stories.
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Tessa James

Thank you StellaB for that historical perspective and always timely admonition to stand up to oppression and discrimination.

Activists Rock!
TJ
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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♥ Dutchess

I can't ignore offensive comments,ESPECIALLY from friends.

I had a friend a month ago, who I've known for a LONG time. Him,my roommate and I went through the drive thru at the local Burger King. The cashier was either andro or trams visually. He kept saying, "hey check IT out!" 

He didn't illicit a response from either one of us and I was happy that the cashier didn't hear.

When we got home, he continued to tell his gf and my roommates gf what he saw, continually calling the cashier, it.

No one thought he was being funny, which made me proud, but I still pitched in and proceeded to educate him on his in appropriate verbiage.

I can't and won't put up with ish like that in my ear sight, whether or not it outs me, I care too much about the human race, despite all the other things wrong with it today. 
We're beautiful, like diamonds in the sky
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Joanna Dark

I would like to think I would say something. But I don't know. If it was a friend, I would. But my friends would never be bigoted. Ignorant maybe. But not bigoted. if they were, they wouldn't be friends. I would drop em like their hot.
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Rinzler

That is a very tough situation to hear people (one of them your friend) make such offensive transphobic jokes when you are trying to remain stealth. I think if the jokes offended you so much and you regret not saying anything, you should definitely say something in future situations.

And like xander, AnarchoChloe, and other people have said, you can stand up for the rights of a minority without being a member of that minority group. People stand up for the rights of people of ethnic minorities, religious minorities, sexual minorities, and cultural minorities all the time without being a member of that minority. And like AlexanderC suggested, if you wish to remain stealth, you could always say that your cousin or someone you know is trans.

While, of course, there are always going to be people that will make hurtful jokes and comments because they are simply cruel and don't care about the people they are hurting by making those jokes and comments, there are a lot of people that make hurtful jokes and comments without even realizing how hurtful they are because they are uneducated on that particular matter and because no one has ever stopped to tell them how hurtful they're being. If the girl you're friends with really is a good person at heart and you don't think she would ever say anything to intentionally offend someone, then she probably would have apologized and thought twice about making such jokes in the future if you told her how offensive and hurtful they were being.

For example, I have this one friend who is generally a very good person, but who can also be very oblivious at times. I was hanging out with her and a bunch of my other friends one time and this particular friend, in response to a character she saw on TV, used a very offensive, transphobic term to refer to that character. Another one of my friends explained to this particular friend that the term she used was extremely offensive and hurtful. The friend who used the hurtful term apologized immediately and has not used the term since then. Again, not everyone will be like this, but I think you'd be surprised by how many people mean well and simply need it to be brought to their attention that their words are hurtful. I think it's always worth a shot to stand up for what you believe in. There's always a chance that you'll change someone's mind or at least plant a seed of knowledge in their head that might grow into something later on.
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Kelly J. P.

 I probably would have accused those people of being uncivilized, since this took place in a college setting. In this modern age, there is no excuse for acting ignorantly in a house of knowledge. If I aroused any suspicion by speaking up, then I would find an out - like, I've had trans friends, or something.

This would go for other forms of hate as well. There's no reason to be homophobic, racist, or anti-[a]theist either.
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Christine167

Yeah I get a lot offensive jokes where I work towards lesbians, gays and specially trans.
I haven't come out to them yet so it's been hard to put up with stupid comments and jokes like: "she's a beautiful man" or "yeah we used to an it here. She once stood in the OR behind the x-ray tech to protect her nonexistent ovaries".
It hurts now that I'm out to myself. It hurts a lot. It would've hurt anyway if a friend or student was trans and was there with me. I think I'm not going to tolerate anymore. I don't think any of should.
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