I moved from a very small town where I was open and had no problems to a larger city and then had a great deal of problems. I ran into a great deal of hate and intolerance. I was raped and assaulted, which the police said I deserved simply for being who I was and determined it not to even be a crime. I have chosen to escape my current city as soon as I have saved enough money to move.

When I move simply to avoid this situation ever again I am thinking of being totally stealth. Only letting my personal physician know I am trans, not another person in the city. Am I betraying everyone? My problem is finding a city I can afford where I can also get my insurance to cover me and no one knows me already!

I feel that as it is your transition rather than anyone else's you are more than entitled to do whatever you like.

Best of luck with the move and stay safe.

Rosie

Quote from: vegie271 on May 20, 2013, 03:33:07 PM

Am I betraying everyone?

No, I don't think so. It is your right to pursue the lifestyle that makes you the happiest. Were I in your position, I wouldn't even stop to question the ethics of the choice; it would be done, simply.

I'm thankful that the intolerance where I live is at a low level. I don't think I would enjoy being stealth... I prefer to be open (but not explicitly "out") and proud.

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on May 20, 2013, 03:46:00 PM

I'm thankful that the intolerance where I live is at a low level. I don't think I would enjoy being stealth... I prefer to be open (but not explicitly "out") and proud.

I was open pretty only with the LGBT crowd, only my closest friends knew, the hate crime happened when a man tried to rape me and when he got me undressed found out that I was pre-op. The he beat me almost to death, and I was made fun of and misgendered by the cop.

when you talk about rape and violent assault its safety first.
x

Quote from: vegie271 on May 20, 2013, 04:21:26 PM

I was open pretty only with the LGBT crowd, only my closest friends knew, the hate crime happened when a man tried to rape me and when he got me undressed found out that I was pre-op. The he beat me almost to death, and I was made fun of and misgendered by the cop.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I can't blame you to want to spend the rest of your life in stealth. I hope you filed a complaint about the police officer who treated you so poorly. I don't think your betraying anyone by living in stealth you have to do what's best for you.

If it helps you cope i can't see how stealth is a betrayal. Just know that there is no real 'true' stealth unless you take some elses ID and kill them, and everyone else they ever knew....And that isnt practical or moral.

Seriously though with all of the paper trail and the fact that digital information is so prevalent anyone who really wants to know what you are hiding will find out. You can start over, but it will never be a reset button.

I think living completely stealth is a good thing. Once someone finds out you are transgender regardless of whether they are accepting or not they will always have that label of Trans over your head. I've had girls I was friends with find out and immediately I went from being treated like one of the girls to being treated more like that sassy gay friend....

Quote<hidden member>
I think living completely stealth is a good thing. Once someone finds out you are transgender regardless of whether they are accepting or not they will always have that label of Trans over your head. I've had girls I was friends with find out and immediately I went from being treated like one of the girls to being treated more like that sassy gay friend....

I have to agree with this statement . I know I'm completely stealth now too and things are better. The only violence you may face will be as a woman. Not the added kind that you get if they find out your trans. There's nothing wrong with keeping this medical condition to yourself

Quote from: Hikari on May 20, 2013, 05:50:23 PM
Just know that there is no real 'true' stealth unless you take some elses ID and kill them, and everyone else they ever knew....And that isnt practical or moral.

Ouch! don't want to do that! but I don't want to give up

Quote <hidden member>
I think living completely stealth is a good thing. Once someone finds out you are transgender regardless of whether they are accepting or not they will always have that label of Trans over your head. I've had girls I was friends with find out and immediately I went from being treated like one of the girls to being treated more like that sassy gay friend....

Yeah, so most say it's OK, see here in town everyone is saying that me going stealth when I move is like betraying the "cause". "if we don't let people know who we are how are they ever going to know that we are real people just like them and get used to us"

but none of them have ever been victims!

Your first cause you should concern yourself with is you and your life. You are not harming any other trans person by going stealth. Everyone needs to decide which route is best for themselves and not worry about making others feel bad for their own choices. I mean seriously, the choice to live your own life as yourself is what our cause should be, not bullying others into doing what we think they should do. Just makes us them, you know what I mean?

 I will note that, while it would be obnoxiously courageous, even heroic, continuing to live as you have been in spite of your rape incident would be a steady and perhaps under-appreciated step into the darkness of transphobia. It's understandable, even expected, that you would want to go stealth after a traumatizing experience like this, but there certainly is a cause as identified by your associates. To follow through on that cause, even through tremendous difficulty, would be difficult; however, you would become a role model, and a beacon of pride, if you were to.

Either way, I hope you find a safer place to live, and I hope you find a way to enjoy your life to the fullest extent possible for you. There is no right or wrong solution to this scenario, in terms of morality, so it's up to you to make the choice that you can most happily live with.

Quote from: vegie271 on May 20, 2013, 09:39:15 PM
see here in town everyone is saying that me going stealth when I move is like betraying the "cause". "if we don't let people know who we are how are they ever going to know that we are real people just like them and get used to us"

Some people are cut out to be activists and poster children, and some aren't. I'm not, and I finally stopped beating myself up about it. I raise awareness in subtler ways, sometimes in casual conversation with students and friends. I do my best to destigmatize trans when I get the opportunity, and I do not need to be out to these people in order to pull it off. Ya gotta do what's right for you.

Causes are all well and good but personal safety is paramount. You are entitled to live in safety. Look after yourself first.

One thing that I am very concerned about is the lack of Police response. To be initially attacked, beaten and raped is horrendous but to then be victimized again by the Police is even worse. There is no excuse for a lack of action and belittling you and saying it was your own fault. If you have not made a complaint I would strongly urge you to do so. Somewhere there will be records of what happened, Casualty Dept, radio logs (police and ambulance), witnesses who saw you at the time or shortly after, incident report (Police/Hospital/Ambulance), etc...

I do not know what procedures are in place where you live for lodging a complaint. In Australia complaints can be lodged to the Commissioner of Police, a Member of Parliament, a Magistrate or Judge, directly to the Officer in Charge of the particular Police Station or Unit but more commonly to the Ombudsman (a State Dept that handles most complaints about State Government Departments and Authorities). I would recommend the equivalent to the Ombudsman if available. Make the complaint in writing. It needs to be detailed and accurate. Do not exaggerate or embroider what happened, if it is discovered that you have included untruthful information it can be used to discredit you. If you have access to Legal Assistance or Legal Aid use it. You will need moral and emotional support for this. If you have access to counselling services use them, again you will need the support.

The reason I am strongly recommending that you complain is twofold. First, for your own sake. This is something that you will have hanging over you and affect you for a very long time, if not forever. Second, if this happened to you it will happen again to someone else unless there are changes.

You did nothing wrong, yet you are being made to feel guilty by the indifference, ignorance and stupidity of the Police. You deserved much better treatment.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I wish I could hold your hand and give you a hug.

Jen

It's totally all right. Anyone who says it's selfish because of promoting acceptation and blah blah is selfish because you have the right to live normally like everyone else does.

And sue the police. Only if you're a careless prostitute do they slightly (oh so very slightly) have a point. But does forgetting to lock your car make your thief less of a criminal? No. I cannot imagine a situation where rape can be blamed on the victim. At most, maybe, in some cases, there can be some attenuating factors in what the victim did. Maybe. And even if that were the case, it's certainly not the police's place to say that. Only the court can. And it'd better have some pretty good reasons for it.

Though sheesh, you really got unlucky. I've been visibly "of ambiguous gender" for maybe two years now, yet the worst I've had is a couple of comments behind my back and 3-4 people laughing/discussing discreetly. I can't imagine "hello, I'm trans" would've gotten me beaten and raped... Well, to begin with, I'm not pretty enough to excite anyone, anyway, but that's not the point.

I do think you've been really unlucky (unless you've gone and made a point of telling the most dangerous-looking people you could find), but especially with your experience, I think it's not only okay but very understandable to go stealth. To be honest, NOT to go stealth at this point sounds masochistic.

And there is no cause. Well, no cause that warrants putting yourself at risk, anyway. The only thing being betrayed here is you, by those people telling you you should once again put yourself at risk just to do "publicity" about trans people not being demons. If you want to help things, sue the police, go through a proper criminal trial, and watch as the headlines about intolerant policemen being suspended and people put in prison for raping an innocent trans person (along with the unavoidable info capsule on transsexualism that never fails to come with every article featuring anything trans) make more of a difference than a thousand more risky situations would.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is stealth?  What does stealth mean here?

Quote from: vegie271 on May 20, 2013, 04:21:26 PM

I was open pretty only with the LGBT crowd, only my closest friends knew, the hate crime happened when a man tried to rape me and when he got me undressed found out that I was pre-op. The he beat me almost to death, and I was made fun of and misgendered by the cop.

From what I can tell, the issue wasn't that he immediately knew you were trans because you were "out", so it's not really a stealth issue. As much as you want to run away and go stealth, this probably won't be the "magic pill" to fix what happened or what might happen in the future.

BUT, being stealth in trans hostile area is definitely the way to go; personally I would just outright leave and find a trans friendly area. Even if you are stealth, it would still be safer to be in a trans friendly area and always have a girlfriend with you at night, walking alone, or any time where there aren't any people around (especially).

Disclaimer: I have nothing against anyone who is stealth or is wanting to go stealth.

If you want to be stealth, there is no problem with that.  You shouldn't need to tell anyone other than medical personal or a serious romantic partner.  I agree with what Skye wrote above.  Stealth is not necessarily going to prevent assaults.  Most women have to deal with the fact that there are predators out there.  It's very sad, but we live in a complex world.  And I'm incredibly sorry to hear you were a victim of one of those scumbags.

Secondly, you should really consider holding the police and the perpetrator accountable.  The person who committed the assault deserves to be prosecuted and those individual officers need  to lose their badge.  How dare they tell you that you deserved what happened to you.  That is one of the most disgusting things I've ever heard.

Quote from: Jennifer Snowskier on May 20, 2013, 10:33:21 PM
Commissioner of Police, a Member of Parliament, a Magistrate or Judge, directly to the Officer in Charge of the particular Police Station or Unit but more commonly to the Ombudsman (a State Dept that handles most complaints about State Government Departments and Authorities). I would recommend the equivalent to the Ombudsman if available. Make the complaint in writing. It needs to be detailed and accurate. Do not exaggerate or embroider what happened, if it is discovered that you have included untruthful information it can be used to discredit you. If you have access to Legal Assistance or Legal Aid use it. You will need moral and emotional support for this. If you have access to counselling services use them, again you will need the support.

The reason I am strongly recommending that you complain is twofold. First, for your own sake. This is something that you will have hanging over you and affect you for a very long time, if not forever. Second, if this happened to you it will happen again to someone else unless there are changes.

You did nothing wrong, yet you are being made to feel guilty by the indifference, ignorance and stupidity of the Police. You deserved much better treatment.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I wish I could hold your hand and give you a hug.

Jen

I have tried, this is why I am just running away and hiding, I just give up , I actually even almost considered just striking out and doing really bad things, either self or other destructive, so leaving and forgetting is the best. I had someone who tried to represent me and complain and it went no where, the system in my city and county is completely corrupt.

Quote from: Kiwi4Ever on May 20, 2013, 11:37:46 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but what is stealth?  What does stealth mean here?

"Stealth" is when you live completely as if you were a cis gender woman and tell no one in your real life about your past. You is no way reveal to anyone anything. You leave no evidence at all. I have no pictures of me preceding transition. I have no boy clothes left, I have no documentation left except the first page left on my birth certificate and that is in a safe , no one will see it, anything that any one could see is locked away, the only thing anyone can find is stuff tracked in digital searches. Nothing  that can be easily found in my home. All evidence of me being trans is gone from my facebook page, my twitter description, my tumblr, google+, flickr, even on the cards I hand out with my phone number