I have been working on a coming our letter and have been trying to explain every little detail about my past.  While I would say I am fairly feminine and know that my family detects that as well, there are some "masculine" interests that I feel I would have to explain.  They are kind of silly, but it makes me sad that people might question my identity because of them. The two things that concern me are my love for music and video games.  Growing up I always was listening to music and particularly loved metal.  Most of my child hood was spent alone in my room learning how to play songs and master the guitar.  I always was playing guitar or writing something. In addition to that, I always loved playing video games.  I know these activities are associated with boys and it bothers me that people will probably see me as male because of this.  But, these activities were a big part of my childhood.  I was always very shy and had difficulties socializing with others as myself because of obvious reasons.  Therefore, I always found refuge in these sort of solitary activities.  However, I know people will deem them as masculine and maybe deny my identity because of it.  I fear I will get " oh women don't listen to Ozzy and play metal, if you were really a girl you would have learned how to play Madonna songs".  I can't help that I have a wide taste in music and that metal and progressive rock are my favourite genres. 

Did anyone have concerns about having their identity being rejected because of interests,hobbies or something in their past?  Or am I the only one that has this fear? 

I absolutely can relate to this topic. I am in the same position as well. Growing up I was into organized sports. I played little league and highschool baseball. On top of that I made all stars almost every year. DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to brag I couldn't stand the game, some things girls do to please their father ) I also enjoy sport fishing, palying vidoe games and skateboarding. I also held a job in construction or fabrication for over 10 years.

Recently I had come out to my brother, and of course he started questioning me about my interests. Saying something along the lines that I never did anything femanine. So I ended up just explaining it to him. I said that yes that was me, and I do enjoy doing all  those things, but there are alot of interest that I couldn't share with you that are almost exclusivly femanine. So all you have seen is what I have allowed you to see. Yes I like to go fishing, but I also love to go shopping with my besties and getting pedicures. Yes I love skateboarding, but I also love decorating. You can't make the assumption of doing a stereotypical male activity makes me male. Those are just things that I do. They don't make me male or female.

I also gave him another example to further open his eyes. I told him to look at our other two sisters and how they are in stark contrast to each other. My older sister used to play all the sports with me baseball, fotball etc.. She was even better then he was at them. Would you deny that she is a woman? My twin sister is the exact opposite, definition of super girly girl. But, she knows more about cars then he could ever hope to, and she has helped my dad restore cars in the past.  We as people are far more complex and interesting than just a couple of interest that happen to be classed as a male or female activity.

<3 Liv

i wouldnt say those are guy things. lots of girls were into metAl in the 80s and early 90s, and video games lots of girls like those too. maybe not for 14 hours at a time but we will still pay them. and sports. totally not a guys only thing. i did cheer leading, volleyball (and still participate in both as of this week) and softball/ track and i have always been girly.

ps dont think im hard core at all because i did for softball was stand in the outfield and talk to the others haha.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 25, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
I have been working on a coming our letter and have been trying to explain every little detail about my past.  While I would say I am fairly feminine and know that my family detects that as well, there are some "masculine" interests that I feel I would have to explain.  They are kind of silly, but it makes me sad that people might question my identity because of them. The two things that concern me are my love for music and video games.  Growing up I always was listening to music and particularly loved metal.  Most of my child hood was spent alone in my room learning how to play songs and master the guitar.  I always was playing guitar or writing something. In addition to that, I always loved playing video games.  I know these activities are associated with boys and it bothers me that people will probably see me as male because of this.  But, these activities were a big part of my childhood.  I was always very shy and had difficulties socializing with others as myself because of obvious reasons.  Therefore, I always found refuge in these sort of solitary activities.  However, I know people will deem them as masculine and maybe deny my identity because of it.  I fear I will get " oh women don't listen to Ozzy and play metal, if you were really a girl you would have learned how to play Madonna songs".  I can't help that I have a wide taste in music and that metal and progressive rock are my favourite genres. 

Did anyone have concerns about having their identity being rejected because of interests,hobbies or something in their past?  Or am I the only one that has this fear?

Honestly, I don't see either of those things as really masculine. Aren't most rock band groupies female? Music isn't really gendered. For those who think that way, it's more divided into 'stuff everyone can listen to' and 'stuff guys should never listen to'. There's no 'stuff girls shouldn't listen to' category lol.

Video games are a pretty neutral hobby these days I'd think. Course, it may depend on the genre.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 25, 2013, 10:57:05 AM
I don't really have masculine interests so I didn't worry about this that much, but honestly you only make yourself look bad if you try to explain it, don't make concessions, it is what it is and you should make it clear to them that they don't get to asses your validity, your happiness is your validity.

This. Thinking you have to make excuses for it is the wrong way to go about it. If someone brings it up, just be like 'seriously?'

As an aside, I really don't think it's odd at all for someone raised male to have developed masculine interests. Think about it. Girls raised in rural areas or by single fathers, with lots of brothers, etc often develop more stereotypically masculine interests and skills. We're not immune to our environment and socialization just because we're trans.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 25, 2013, 10:57:05 AM
I don't really have masculine interests so I didn't worry about this that much, but honestly you only make yourself look bad if you try to explain it, don't make concessions, it is what it is and you should make it clear to them that they don't get to asses your validity, your happiness is your validity.

I mean even I don't totally understand it when MTFs have almost all masculine interests but I had to accept that it doesn't matter what I think, I don't get to decide anyone's validity and there is no reason I should.

I'm not sure if that comment is directed towards me or in general, but I will comment as if it was directed towards me.

I hardly think taking the time to educate someone makes me look bad. I was not explaining myself to validate my own conclusions. I was trying to help him to understand his own misconceptions. This was in no way about being validated as a woman. This was to try to get him to understand that interests don't make the woman. They are simply interests, nothing more nothing less. The thing to remember is that I am not the only one transitioning. The people close to you are on the same journey. I think to just come out to someone close with little explaination other then just telling them to accept it is inconsiderate of their position.

I find the last part of your post interesting. It seems as though you would have the same reaction as my brother. That having alot of male interests would some how make me less of a woman or in this case a transwoman. I also found it somewhat ironic that in the first paragraph you said that they don't have the right to asses your validity, yet in the second paragraph it sounds as though you are trying to asses their validity based on their interests as well. Food for thought I guess.

I hope your are not going to take this post with anysort of malicous intent. That is not my aim at all. I am merely trying to respond with my own opinion. I completely respect your opinion and point of view.

<3 Liv

There aren't any hobbies/interests that I can think of that are exclusively male/female. I even have a few male friends who like to shop for shoes and accessories. Guy shoes and accessories but good luck telling them that.

Furthermore the companies that make the products for those hobbies/interests are increasingly reaching out to females because its a market they haven't been able to attract before. Otherwise why offer pink gaming consol equipment? Same with rock bands. You don't just have to buy a guys small or steal your boy friends tshirt anymore to have one. As for hunting and fishing come on I saw a pink camo shotgun the other day at Academy Sports.

Personally I like the same things, music and games. And when it has come to shopping I have always liked shopping for watches because in my family that was the only accessory that was okay for a boy to shop for. I always liked necklaces and rings and my family did discourage me from shopping for those. It is apparently best to receive those items as gifts from a family member or girl friend if you are a boy. And you don't get a chance to pick them out or ever really know your size. SO yeah I have a lot of watches....    and yes because I have small wrists many of them are children's or ladies watches.

The way I see it, competitive and challenging activities are common male pursuits, while aesthetic and creative activities trend female. I always loved video games, for instance - but only the more creative 'building' sorts. I've always been horrible at major competitive elements.

Not really. I used to fix a lot of things, mechanical, electrical, etc. and had and could use well all the welding equipment/plasma cutter I had for most any metals, especially aluminum and stainless. I'm kind of sad that I had to sell all of it, but I needed the money when I was unemployed for so long during the early part of my transition.  The main thing that I think bothers some was that I quit doing it out of losing interest in most of it. I still do things for myself and help out close neighbors and family, but beyond that I really don't have the inclination or time to do it for others.

With that said, I just finished taking out the 4k generator that was in my neighbor's rv since he has been using a different one that is installed on the back porch of it. So its still nice to know I can do that stuff and without putting much effort into it.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 25, 2013, 11:49:10 AM
Oh I'm sorry you thought that, I replied to the OP only and hadn't even read yours yet when I replied.

There is an impulse to assess people's validity on their interests and personality, I'm not gonna lie because I've become very aware of gender differences in transition and they jump out at me. It CAN be hard to think of someone whose traits remind you of males as a woman... I can't help that I struggle with that, it's not prejudice, like I said it is just an impulse that says "that doesn't match."
The point I was trying to make is that it would not be fair for me to judge other people just because of that impulse. And it's not fair for anyone else to either....

I completly agree. That impulse is something innate in all of us. I too struggle to tell that impulse to shut up. I think I was trying to make that very same point to my brother. I should probably clarify a tad as well, I was in no way offended by your post. I was trying to make it sound that way. It is hard for me to convey tone in written word sometimes. 

<3 Liv

Thanks for all the input so far.

I would consider myself very feminine as I have a lot of interests that are girly, but I always feel concerned about what people might say about my music and love for video games. Still, I got into gaming because my two older sisters were into it.   Plus, most of the love for metal came from me borrowing my older sisters music.  So, I guess I shouldn't worry about it being too boyish.  Besides, those are about the only "male" activities that really interest me.  I just love writing music and being creative for myself.  Overall, I feel very girly and don't feel  concerned about myself.  And even though I love metal, my desired style of dressing and  appearance is very similar to other girls my age. Plus my family always makes comments about my girly qualities and I'm certain they suspect something.  However, I just get scared about being rejected and not having people accept me as a girl.  I have spent so long living as a male and feel very tired.  I can't go on much longer living as boy.  But I just don't want to be rejected when I finally come out.  I just want to be accepted as one of the girls and I get afraid that it won't happen.  Like I am going to be written off as male for the rest of my life because of how I was born and stupid things like enjoying playing the guitar.  I just wish I could be like other girls my age.  It sucks because I fear everyone (my family, other girls, boys) are all going to judge me and not allow me into the "girls club" if you will.  I care deeply about how others think and feel about me, so I get worried.

Eh, if you were into heavy bodybuilding, American football, car mechanics or guns, maybe an explanation would be nice (even though ultimately gender stereotypes are bad and blah blah, but that's not the poin here), but video games and metal, seriously, no. Those are only somewhat more masculine interests statistically. Video games were a lot of a male thing maybe 5-10 ago, but not anymore. For example, in Dragon Nest, there's, what, 1/3 girls? And people are just not surprised that people are girls anymore, because there's only a small majority of guys on most games now. Well, if we're talking about first-person shooters and such, maybe, but even then! I'm convinced there's at the very least 15 % girls there too!

Well, perfume, that vastly depends, to be honest. Maybe you just never smelled the right perfume. Me, for example, I very much hate the kinds of perfumes that are strong, and I dunno how to call it, "musky" or "woody", and also sour scents like citrus and a few flowers. Chanel no. 5, for example. And that kind of perfume just so happens to be the favourite of those damned old women who use way too much perfume. That led me to think I hated perfume... but then I smelled sweeter, lighter perfumes, like those weaker ones with rose or fruits like strawberry, and I'm honestly considering buying some perfume sometime.

I get people telling me all the time that videogames are a "male" hobby even though I have at least 5 women on my Xbox friends list, just like them I prefer co-op games to competetive games but I hold my own on Battlefield 3.

I don't see anything as exclusively male or female, it's just a case of whatever floats your boat & to hell with naysayers

Cis women don't have to explain why they do video games, guitar, metalworking, shooting or any other typically male activity.

Why should we?

I consider this, at times...

The way I see it - How could one avoid developing "masculine" interests and hobbies when you are immersed in that gender?

It would be like living in Country "A" all of your life, and then moving to Country "B" without having been influenced by a lifetime spent in your country of origin.

I'd say it's perfectly natural, and wouldn't let it be a distraction.

I used to be a hardcore corvette collector when I had the $$ and thoroughly enjoyed them. If I had the $ now I would own another 74 that is my absolute favorite year for them. I still have old acquaintances call me and ask me tech questions. all I have left now is a 90 Iroc which though is no where near what I was used to it is still fun to drive. And nothing kills a guys ego more then rolling down the window and letting him know he just got beat by a girl ;-)

Quote from: learningtolive on May 25, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
The two things that concern me are my love for music and video games. 

Most everyone likes music. Music is an expression of the sole. As far as video games go, Some of the biggest gamers I know are CIS women. Neither are more associated with men or women.

I agree with all the people above, yes. I have lots of female (and male) friends, and about all of them like video games and/or music. Okay, they're not all die hard metal lovers, but at least one loves hard rock more than anything, and has clearly stated she identifies as a woman and nothing else.

But yeah, even though I experience it from the other end of the spectrum, I know the feeling. I have mainly masculine in my hobbies and interests, but am really emotional and chatty for example. I wouldn't want to give that side of myself up, as I don't see it as exclusively female, just... 'social'. Nevertheless I'm constantly fussing about tiny things like these, just because 'how to pass' guides say it's inappropriate to smile at strangers as a man (unless you're looking for a hookup) or get too 'emotional' and 'involved' in things. :s

A cismale having these traits would simply pride himself for being a nice guy. One who asks his girlfriend what's wrong when she's down and talks things over with her first instead of hitting the 'denial' or 'ignore and carry on' button. But I, as a non genetic male, feel that every little thing which is not 'in order' offsets me from what is considered "male", even though I know this is BS, I can't help to get affected by it...
Somehow I sometimes start overthinking things too much, because sometimes I feel like I have to 'learn' to be a man, which is kind of ridiculous, because I AM a man, though not one in the usual 'shape', lol.

Quote from: mandyh92 on May 25, 2013, 02:33:07 PM
I used to be a hardcore corvette collector when I had the $$ and thoroughly enjoyed them. If I had the $ now I would own another 74 that is my absolute favorite year for them. I still have old acquaintances call me and ask me tech questions. all I have left now is a 90 Iroc which though is no where near what I was used to it is still fun to drive. And nothing kills a guys ego more then rolling down the window and letting him know he just got beat by a girl ;-)

Mandy please don't take this the wrong way but that is hot!

There's a ton of female metal bands...don't listen to other people, just like what you like.  I play video games constantly and I'm a girl.  So what?