Quote from: Nygeel on May 29, 2013, 01:04:22 AM
Seeing more phallo results would give some guys a little more hope about surgical options.

The problem is that so many people out there mock and judge bottom surgery results, that no one wants to share them. If everyone shared them, they'd probably see how good and normal they look.

Lately I've been thinking really hard about that. Once I have phallo, i feel like i'd have no problem showing people my junk, it's not a privacy issue for me. My problem is that fear that there will be a bunch of transguys who will see it (who probably haven't even seen an actual dick, or one outside of porn) and will make fun of it. But I know there are so many guys I know would benefit from seeing more results especially since Dr. Crane is new to the game.

Quote from: Nygeel on May 29, 2013, 01:04:22 AM
Seeing more phallo results would give some guys a little more hope about surgical options.

There are pics out there; you just have to know where to look. But I agree that MORE pics would be nice.

I've seen stealth shaming on this very site, but it didn't last long.

I have also been taken to task IRL for not being openly trans and active in the local community. FWIW, one guy who was lecturing me has a rep as an attention-seeker. He also didn't know that I was acting as a mod here, making small monetary contributions to the TLC, and helping out a couple of trans guys I know (with small loans and the like). I also educate cis people without outing myself.

I think those things count for something. But even if I didn't do them, my stealth life is MY FREAKING BUSINESS, and anyone who tries to shame me now will have to listen to a great deal of inelegant invective from me. My life, my choices. I've paid my dues and suffered enough. Do not try to tell me how to live my life.

Quote from: Arch on May 29, 2013, 01:34:57 AM
There are pics out there; you just have to know where to look. But I agree that MORE pics would be nice.

Ftm-portal.net also have some pictures of it. but I dont know if there the same as on transbucket?
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Dark.knight

Well, For me it seams as something who goes both ways in the comunetys.
Stealth people are being jugded and so is people who arn't steath. Just reading this thread is a pretty good prof, we read on how stealth people are being discriminated and yet have comments that everyone not stealth is "someone whos waving around with a transflag all the time."

I don't identify stealth, neither do I like the term "out and proud" because people impliy that im going around screaming TRANS FREEDOM!! every 5 second.

For me the tearm out, stealth & open, depends from person to person and in diffrent degrees, its true if your non-passable or if your not binary to a certain point its pretty difficult not to be steath, but if you pass then it became more of a choice for you how open or how stealth you want to be, I see it as a personal limits who depends from each person and which each person have to figure out themself.
I do not go around telling everyone I am trans, I simple do not have time or energy to educate the whole world as a fulltime job, neither is it always the best or safest thing to do, but if I feel it relevant I want to be able to tell other that im trans, as a part of me like any other part of my life, it all depends on people or the topic and thats how I feel best because it important for me, not just a part like other parts who made me somehow who I am today, but its also a part of my political view, my way of thinking, and my friends. So for people who get to know me to a certain degree it can be troublesome if there not accepting of this facts that I am trans or have trans friends.

I don't have a problem with people being stealth alone for that fact. 
some of the people here said theres jelousy invold, I personally can't relate to that but maybe some feel that way IDK, I feel its more of a cultural gap.

For me it seams theres diffrent problems invold in the whole- open/stealth thing.

first of all:
for stealth people they often can't/won't go into activatys who suport transgender rights, or its more difficult for them to do so.
Somethimes those are understandable for me so I forgive them, othertimes I can get annoyed. I have a exemples: I where to plan a demonstration so that transgenders could get homones safely, but many transgender didnt show up. they had to be stealth and neutral because if they made fuss the doctors who where agenst them and the media could make there life hell, I understood there choices but in the end we had to cancel the demonstration because it ment there where too few people, and transgenders are still suffering under the threatment we have now. Even when one of my friends who is stealth didnt show up on understandable reasons I still felt very frustrated because if we had been enought we might could had changed things which didnt happent. this dosent just infect me it pretty much infects every transgender in the country and I cant feel after I started doing activism that I do care more on what people do than I did before.

this helping thing isnt JUST stealth people. there are stealth people who helps in there way on diffrent things, theres also open people who dont really do anything. But as I mention I belive it to be more difficult for someone who is stealth to help because it gets more limited in some ways.
the whole, we help each other culture is pretty strong in some countrys, I guess those countrys who have most hate and discrimination towards transgender also has strongest comunetys, yet they also has the most drama if someone ex goes stealth and dont show up anymore. I dont know 100% about that but it just a feeling I get.

other problems being invold is the gap between being open and being steaht, where one is open to be discriminated and another is kept safe, abit like in gay relationships where one is out and another is in. Luckely I havent experience problems with it, but I had got into situations where I felt akward cause I was unsure on how much I should tell about my friends.

the biggest issue as I see, is the prejugde that all stealth people are ignorant, which isnt nessesarry true.
I do have sthealt friends who hang around other trans friends who is non binary and do not have any problems.
something who annoyes me is people who is stealth who want to just be normal and casual so much that they cut out every trans thing. They dont want to be seen around other transpeople. and they think transgenders who is out, or who isnt exactly as themself are bad exemples because they do not represent themself.
Those types annoyes me alot.
------------------------------
taking all those things together, we get situations where stealth people bash non stealth transgender and transgenders who is out bash stealth people. Somethimes for there prejugdes, something Not for being out/stealth but for something who is followed by/belived to be followed by.

I hope all my text made sense.

Yeah it makes sense.
I think it's our lives and our bodies, so it's our choice how we live them and who we share them with. If people want to be out, great. If people want to be stealth, that's fine too. If people want to show their surgeries and stuff, I'm certainly not complaining. If people don't want to show their surgeries and stuff, that is totally fine as well and to force them to would be wrong. I may be naïve, but support of trans rights doesn't necessarily require one to be out right?

As a few others have said, there's a lot of trans people out there now. So trans people know transition is definitely possible, they have a lot of narratives and resources. My story isn't unique. I can't see it helping anyone.

And besides, to be honest, some of the trans community behaves really negatively towards other trans people. I don't want to be associated with that because I think it's terrible. It sounds horrible of me to say, but it's true and it's how I feel.

Quote from: Edge on May 29, 2013, 12:15:37 PM
Yeah it makes sense.
I think it's our lives and our bodies, so it's our choice how we live them and who we share them with. If people want to be out, great. If people want to be stealth, that's fine too. If people want to show their surgeries and stuff, I'm certainly not complaining. If people don't want to show their surgeries and stuff, that is totally fine as well and to force them to would be wrong. I may be naïve, but support of trans rights doesn't necessarily require one to be out right?

no, alot of suport is simple, as least how I see it.
things like standing up for someone ells, giving a advice to someone, or signing a petition who suports rights, are pretty simple to do without nessesarry being out, cisgenders can do so as well.

the things I mention which can be more tricky to do if your stealth is bigger things, ex joining demonstrations, debating in media of any kinds, suport metting specially for famely members or relatives can also be somehow tricky to keep stealth in.
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Quote from: Prof HB on May 29, 2013, 12:19:52 PM
As a few others have said, there's a lot of trans people out there now. So trans people know transition is definitely possible, they have a lot of narratives and resources. My story isn't unique. I can't see it helping anyone.

help is many things,
Simply writting/talking to someone who need someone to talk to is a help.

Quote from: Nygeel on May 28, 2013, 10:50:16 PM
You just gave the names of a few guys I feel aren't good role models.

I saw this post and I couldn't help but think...I hope one of them isn't Jamison Green. I've always felt that he was a kind, respectable man. Don't diss Jamison. 

Quote from: Prof HB on May 29, 2013, 12:19:52 PM
As a few others have said, there's a lot of trans people out there now. So trans people know transition is definitely possible, they have a lot of narratives and resources. My story isn't unique. I can't see it helping anyone.

And besides, to be honest, some of the trans community behaves really negatively towards other trans people. I don't want to be associated with that because I think it's terrible. It sounds horrible of me to say, but it's true and it's how I feel.

This.

I don't believe everyone has a duty to educate other trans* people or the general public. If you want to, great, but you don't have to. Transition is very personal and everyone does something different. It's ridiculous to assume that everyone has to stay "in the community" after they complete transition in order to educate or help people if they don't want to. No one is owed anything. Prof HB is right, with hundreds of trans dudes on youtube, tumblr and susan's itself there is a ton of resources out there. A LOT more than even 5 years ago. The trans community needs to let people be themselves and stop policing how other people IDENTIFY, how they see their trans status and whether or not they want to be stealth.

Interesting topic

This has already been said before but part of it I think is jealousy .  Some guys for whatever reason may not be able to be stealth and therefore hope to look to other non-stealth guys as leaders and to help them cope. I would think that the more guys go stealth-the harder it is for the non-stealth guy.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on May 29, 2013, 03:51:21 PM
The trans community needs to let people be themselves and stop policing how other people IDENTIFY, how they see their trans status and whether or not they want to be stealth.

That reminds me of a conversation I had a week or so ago with a well known guy on YT who has a video encouraging other transmen to "come out" in their communities. I mentioned to him that I know a lot of people who have no idea about me and after being stealth for so long it's really not in my best interest. I did mention that I don't mind discussing things with cis people online or befriending other trans folks online or IRL.

His response to me was he understands that not everyone is capable of being out in their communities but that is what is really going to change things for the better. People tend to gain empathy for situations when it's someone they personally know. He did also say he never said it was going to be easy and in fact it's pretty f'ing hard.

I left him with the final thought because I wasn't in the mood for a long drawn out debate. It did make me wonder though, why this guy who is post transition, married, and has a new baby bothers to complicate his life so much? Him saying, "It's pretty f'ing hard" tells me that he isn't enjoying his notoriety. It's almost like he is begrudgingly being a spokesman for the trans community when there is no need for him to do so. He looks 100% cis. It's not as if someone is holding a gun to his head so where does this sense of duty come from?

I don't have the same sense of duty to the trans community. I'm a private person. Now if any guys lived around me I'd be more than willing to meet up, go fishing, fire up the grill, or maybe even set up a camping trip if there were enough of us. There is a common bond there. I think it's good to be open to each other and stay that way. It helps the new guys and it helps the old ones remember where they came from. I'm not into educating the cis gender world though. If you are then more power to you. Don't down me for not being willing to though.

Quote from: Simon on May 29, 2013, 04:47:58 PM
That reminds me of a conversation I had a week or so ago with a well known guy on YT who has a video encouraging other transmen to "come out" in their communities. I mentioned to him that I know a lot of people who have no idea about me and after being stealth for so long it's really not in my best interest. I did mention that I don't mind discussing things with cis people online or befriending other trans folks online or IRL.

His response to me was he understands that not everyone is capable of being out in their communities but that is what is really going to change things for the better. People tend to gain empathy for situations when it's someone they personally know. He did also say he never said it was going to be easy and in fact it's pretty f'ing hard.

I left him with the final thought because I wasn't in the mood for a long drawn out debate. It did make me wonder though, why this guy who is post transition, married, and has a new baby bothers to complicate his life so much? Him saying, "It's pretty f'ing hard" tells me that he isn't enjoying his notoriety. It's almost like he is begrudgingly being a spokesman for the trans community when there is no need for him to do so. He looks 100% cis. It's not as if someone is holding a gun to his head so where does this sense of duty come from?

I don't have the same sense of duty to the trans community. I'm a private person. Now if any guys lived around me I'd be more than willing to meet up, go fishing, fire up the grill, or maybe even set up a camping trip if there were enough of us. There is a common bond there. I think it's good to be open to each other and stay that way. It helps the new guys and it helps the old ones remember where they came from. I'm not into educating the cis gender world though. If you are then more power to you. Don't down me for not being willing to though.

I agree. I know well known people in the trans community and they also aren't thrilled with people "looking up to them" They think it's weird/funny. But I think you're right. People need to stop pushing people to come out, be a spokesman or be visible. We all have a right to our bodies and we all have a right as to how we handle transition.

Quote from: Sebb on May 29, 2013, 03:33:31 PM
I saw this post and I couldn't help but think...I hope one of them isn't Jamison Green. I've always felt that he was a kind, respectable man. Don't diss Jamison. 

Don't think anybody would diss Jamison. Perhaps they might be talking about Chaz Bono? I think he has said things which to me wouldn't seem like anything to brag about. I am actually pretty happy with the people in my own community, so I am pretty happy to be associated with them.

But no, everybody would not need to come out. I feel that there is a difference in how "out" and "stealth" people view being trans in a lot of cases. We just need to respect each others positions and recognize each other as brothers.
--Jay

I did not think my post would get much attention or input, but I'm glad it did so I can see what other men think and is going on.

I'm very private I left my home town/state to a place I know no one and miles from family. I'm with my girlfriend and thats it. So I'm very private not anti social or distant at all, but a big part of me packed up so I could transition. To the guy that said he was amazed I was stealth, I think you misunderstood what I had typed I'm working on being stealth not quite there, I'm in a college town in TX and my next move in a couple months is to a new big city in this foreign state of Texas. I'm taking the town I'm in to figure out how to go stealth what to wear how to bind keeping my voice deep and my facial hair growth etc. I've almost figured it out and get called sir about 90% of the time so its working out for me. Once I move to H-Town I will keep as stealth as possible expect in need no bases, that will be hard without matching paperwork, so I guess its not quite stealth since some must know. With general public, co-workers, and class mates I'm the new man on campus so...Soon but not yet am I stealth.

If its not online I avoid trans LGBT things. I'm not an activist nor do I want to be a spokesman EVER. For my safety, professional career, and future children I will be stealth. Because I feel like my genitals should not be slapped in a slideshow or on everyones tumblr with likes and comments about how large my bio man is before anything. Nope not for me! Will I do it without my name or face on it, maybe, to educate but not really interested in that either. I'll let the guys who feel the need to or desire to to do it, but this guys is all male and always will be.

Others should stop pushing stealth men to come out...I am the Dark Knight you need not know my true identity lol
I'll sign your petition and support what I believe is right for this community but I'm doing it as a human being not a sub gender.
Not waving a i'm trans flag, but as a supportive person.

Another thing once I'm stealth I want to drain out that female body (duh) female past( blah.) I want to be stealth because it cures my dysphhoria. That's why I'm on this journey to cure this dysphoria. To keep as that "FTM" would be detrimental to my treatment and for me a notch above being that stud/butch/wo-men (I never identified as that when I didn't know a name for my disease) You guys get my point?

I met a guy early in transition who calls himself the most out stealth trans man there is.  Meaning in the trans community he is out and proud and willing to help other brothers.  It was hugely helpful for me to meet him prior to transition so I could see what the effects of T would be 8 years down the road.  The fact that he looked like a cis-male was huge for me; I had visions of looking like an ugly hairy woman for the rest of my life, LOL.

He is also stealth, because in his every day life, he is not out to many of his friends, coworkers, and acquaintances.  Kind of like how I am.  I have ties to the trans community locally, so if someone wants to contact me they can; however in my regular life I am male and do not disclose, ever

Jay

As far as genital shaming, most of the post-op phallo pics out there are very soon post op.  Pictures after all of the stages are complete and things are healed are less common.  If I were younger and richer I'd probably get a phallo.  That said, people diss metas all the time.  Heck, I'd rather have a 1" dick that I can pee through (that does get bigger when hard) than no dick and a hole.  Yes, I'd like a good 3" soft and 6" hard dick like any cis-man, but reality is there are guys with tiny dicks out there (I've dated 2 of them).  The first small one I encountered was so small soft it was the size of a child's (not kidding, it was hard for me to get into at first because it was as small as my 5 year olds soft) and didn't get much bigger hard (4" and very thin).  The other was 1.5 soft with average girth, but only 3.5 hard.  So yeah, I'm still smaller than they are, but they deal, I deal.  I have good sensation and orgasms, I can pee through my fly, and that's huge for me.

I wish people wouldn't discount it, because it's not 'ideal.'   But heck, even cis-men can be born without dicks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/18/andrew-wardle-man-born-without-penis-slept-100-women-pictures_n_2899285.html

Quote from: sneakersjay on May 28, 2013, 08:15:00 PM
I'm stealth simply from the standpoint that it's nobody else's business what my history is.

This is exactly how i feel. It's no ones business and I'm transitioning to be male not to be FTM.

I agree with many on this thread, I'm completely stealth at work and in classes because it's irrelevant and just not anyone's business about my past. However I find some of the opinions people have posted on those who choose to be out pretty disappointing. We're in a thread about not shaming people and yet people are saying stuff like out guys just need to feel "special" or only want others to come out because of jealousy? Come on. It's not at all about being special, in fact it's the opposite. The point of coming out to the people in your life is that they know you're a regular person, so by finding out your status, they realize that trans guys are just average guys.

I chose stealth because I hate how people treat me differently after they find out. I hate how people think of us as something other than male. But what if people didn't have these misconceptions? What if we didn't have to be stealth because everyone accepted trans men as men? I think that would be a better world. That's the world that those who are out are fighting for and those people should be recognized and thanked, not belittled.

I want to be stealth to the point where I'm really put off coming out before next September now that I've found out there's a 90% chance of me being at the same college as I was this year as female then.  Being known as a trans man doesn't appeal to me at all.  I've never really identified as trans, it's just a term which describes why I've always felt male when my body told a different story, and a pathway to understanding that what I felt as my gender was maleness.  The only time I've been inclined to be out is on the internet, solely because that's what I'm used to on here, because the majority of the time I'm either on here, tumblr, or youtube, and all three are trans related.  Then I thought about it and realised that fountain pens have no relevance to whether or not I'm cis, and neither they, nor I, gain anything from them knowing that irritating fact about my body and birth certificate.

If people want to be out about it, to whatever degree, I don't care either.  People can do what they like.  Part of me wishes people weren't out for fear that it will out me one day because of my scars, or fear of that happening will push me towards getting peri (I think I'm borderline) which I don't really want for various reasons, but that's not something I'm going to take out on an individual, or shame them for.  Having people who are out has pros and cons, and that's pretty much the only con, and a selfish one at that, having more visability will help others considerably more, both in terms of cis understanding, and trans people realising they're not freaks or alone, and there's help out there.

Quote from: Chamillion on May 30, 2013, 04:43:28 PM
We're in a thread about not shaming people and yet people are saying stuff like out guys just need to feel "special" or only want others to come out because of jealousy?

Maybe some of what guys have said on this topic has been a little harsh but I guess they figure turnabout is fair play. As much as those who are open and proud of being trans wonder why the stealth guys are "hiding" we wonder what they're getting out of what they do. Not saying their is anything wrong with it, but they have to be enjoying what they're doing or they wouldn't be doing it.

As far as the guys who aren't stealth because they can't be, that's very few and far between. I have never seen a transguy who is 5 years or so on T not pass flawlessly. I think the overrated notion that "one year on T" makes everyone pass is harmful to some guys. I feel awful for guys who have been on T a few years and still get misgendered. Those are the guys who have beach ball sized cojones and not the boys who look like they stepped out of a A&F catalog a year into transition. Those guys have my utmost respect as I know they take the majority of the crap out there.

Quote from: Chamillion on May 30, 2013, 04:43:28 PM
I chose stealth because I hate how people treat me differently after they find out. I hate how people think of us as something other than male. But what if people didn't have these misconceptions?

Even if people didn't have misconceptions I'm pretty certain I would still just identify as male. To me, I am doing this to live my life comfortably as a man. I wouldn't want to identify myself as a transguy in society regardless of how it was perceived. Right now if I wanted to be open with people I would, no matter what their reactions would be. I would be doing it for myself...as I have done all of this just for me.

Quote from: Chamillion on May 30, 2013, 04:43:28 PM
I agree with many on this thread, I'm completely stealth at work and in classes because it's irrelevant and just not anyone's business about my past. However I find some of the opinions people have posted on those who choose to be out pretty disappointing. We're in a thread about not shaming people and yet people are saying stuff like out guys just need to feel "special" or only want others to come out because of jealousy? Come on. It's not at all about being special, in fact it's the opposite. The point of coming out to the people in your life is that they know you're a regular person, so by finding out your status, they realize that trans guys are just average guys.

I chose stealth because I hate how people treat me differently after they find out. I hate how people think of us as something other than male. But what if people didn't have these misconceptions? What if we didn't have to be stealth because everyone accepted trans men as men? I think that would be a better world. That's the world that those who are out are fighting for and those people should be recognized and thanked, not belittled.

I dont feel the need to be thanked for or recognized for receiving treatment for a medical condition. Also, I disagree with your assumption that people "have to be stealth" because they worry they wouldnt be accepted as men. I could personally not give less a fak about whether some one thinks I am a man. I fail to see how that assumption is any more valid or logical than assuming someone is jelous that they cant be stealth.

What if when I was constipated I could be open about it? What if I didnt have to keep my bowel movements secret because everyone saw constipated people as regular people? I think that would be a better world.

I just think its private. Yes, the people that are "out and trans" are making the world better for themselves, and for other out and trans people who want to talk about it. And honestly, good for them. That's great. They can work on encouraging non gender conformist to have an easier life. And I even agree that people should have free gender expression. But I find the belittling and insults come from both sides. Out people sometimes see themselves as gender heros, and then look down on those who choose to not share there genitals with the world.

I can also see that it works the other way. Stealth people can be just as unkind to out people.

anyway, i think the bottom line is that everyone should do whats best for themselves. I come on here and a few other boards in order to help other bros. I have nothing to say about my medical experience to the rest of the world. I am here to help and offer advice to my brothers. I have Lots of desire to dialogue with those who are going through the same thing I went through. I dont feel like you have to be 'out' to 'make the world a better place'