...while doing my business in the women's restroom today. I'm not really mad about the situation. I dress as a guy, have short hair, and carry myself like guy. If I avoid talking and people don't look to hard at me, they usually assume I'm a guy. So I can understand their "confusion". However, I'm not "man" enough to use the men's restroom and I'm often stuck using a women's restroom. So after doing my business and walking up to the sinks, I get screeched at by some 20 something year old and called a perv before they fly out of the restroom. I didn't really see the girl long enough to SAY something but at that point, I was too worried about being "interrogated" by some cop/security guard to wait around and see if she would come back.

Really what am I suppose to do? I don't bind so I still have breasts (however small they may be) and that might draw attention if I was in the men's restroom. Plus, what if I get stopped for going in the "wrong" bathroom or if someone calls security for some girl being in the men's restroom? Is this going to be a common issue until I start using the men's restroom?

Sorry you were insulted.

Bathroom issues seem to be a problem in some countries and not others. I presume since you had a problem that you are in the USA, which seems to have the most problems.

To be honest if I was you I would use the men,s. If you are passing as a young man so well as to get screamed at, I would suggest it is a positive!

Just use a stall in the men's.

When I used to use the men's, I found that guys never look at each other anyway unless they are drunk. It is normal just to walk in and out in a relaxed way avoiding eye contact. Guys get caught up on eye contact in the loo!!!

Quote from: Cindy. on May 31, 2013, 04:29:52 AM
Sorry you were insulted.

Bathroom issues seem to be a problem in some countries and not others. I presume since you had a problem that you are in the USA, which seems to have the most problems.

To be honest if I was you I would use the men,s. If you are passing as a young man so well as to get screamed at, I would suggest it is a positive!

Just use a stall in the men's.

When I used to use the men's, I found that guys never look at each other anyway unless they are drunk. It is normal just to walk in and out in a relaxed way avoiding eye contact. Guys get caught up on eye contact in the loo!!!

You are correct to assume this happened in the USA. (Kinda funny how land of the free is so damn intolerant.)

I'm actually quite tempted to use the men's room. Unlike the women's, it seems like guys are just in and out. Throw on a cap, avoid eye contact, and I'd probably be good as gold.

I end up staring at the men's room sign for a couple minutes before just caving and going to the women's. I guess it never really bothered me because no one commented on this boyish creature using their restrooms but now, it kinda bugs me. I might have to make the plunge. I just worry that if the stalls are full and I have to wait, someone might see I'm not actually a guy. Are full stalls an issue with men's restrooms?

I agree with Cindy: just use the men's. If you pass well enough to be given grief in the ladies', you're man enough to use the men's.

I'm not 'man' enough to use the men's either, but I've been doing it anyway since last year. Confidence is key. As Cindy says, men's rooms are very different from the ladies': in the ladies' rooms, women tend to check each other out, make eye contact with each other, hold conversations, etc. which is why that 20-something clocked you and gave you a hard time.

Men don't tend to look at each other at all. In fact, they almost seem allergic to each other in the rest room. Generally speaking, men go into the men's room to do their business without looking at anyone else there or talking to them, and then they get the heck out as quickly as possible. Very often, they don't even stay long enough to wash their hands before leaving.

So just do what I do. March confidently into the men's room, go directly to one of the stalls, and do your business there. If you're worried about the sound you make when you pee, just put some toilet paper in the bowl before you start. If you're worried about people noticing you've gone in the stall just to pee instead of using a urinal, just wait in the cubicle for an extra minute so it seems you've had a number 2, and if the toilet has a dual flush (a small one for a number one, and a big one for a number 2) always use the big one. If the stalls are full, just wash your hands and leave (as if you'd only gone in to wash your hands in the first place) and try again later.

A good place to start getting used to the men's is Starbucks: they tend to have single-stall toilets so you'll be on your own in the men's room. Then work your way up to the multi-stall toilets they tend to have in shopping malls etc. when you feel more confident.

I've never been confronted in the men's toilets (yet), but just in case, I keep a copy of a letter from my Gender Therapist that identifies me as a female-to-male transsexual who must be treated as male for all legal purposes. It gives me the extra confidence I need.

If some guy ever asks you whether you're in the right room, just say 'sure!' and carry on doing what you're doing. You don't have to engage anyone else in conversation. They have no more right to know what you're doing in a toilet than you have to know what they're doing there. 

Guys are a lot more "whatever" about who is in the bathroom with them. Women tend to go in pairs, chat between stalls, and hang out in front of the mirror. Guys do their business and get out. I've only heard of one instance that a transguy was harassed in the men's bathroom but I've heard plenty about people having things said in the female's.

I don't know what to tell you really as I've never seen you so I don't know if I think you'd be questioned in the women's bathroom again or if that was just a freak occurrence. When possible I'd say go to a "family bathroom" with the single stall when there is one available until you get comfortable going to one or the other.

I learned to scope out bathrooms back in the day. When you're at Walmart or another place where there are bathrooms in the front and back of the store always go to the one in the back. It's usually a lot less busy. Gas stations are also good because many are single stall.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on May 31, 2013, 04:44:25 AM
I agree with Cindy: just use the men's. If you pass well enough to be given grief in the ladies', you're man enough to use the men's. (snip)

I wish I could have that confidence level about things like this. Or at least the documents to help boast it up for me.

I might try examining places more, scouting the restrooms beforehand and try to learn to "walk like I run the place" if you know what I mean. I want to do it very much especially to avoid another "perv" incident that might result in something far worse than a bruised ego.

I do appreciate your suggestions about TP in toilet, washing hands in case the stalls are busy and whatnot. My wife (MTF trans) is kinda useless when I ask her about these things. She just scratches her head and says "Well, you just go in and pee then leave". I actually do the same even in the women's restroom but there is a different atmosphere when in there compared to the men's room.

I'll just has to get some balls and just do it, eh? 

Quote from: Simon on May 31, 2013, 04:50:04 AM
Guys are a lot more "whatever" about who is in the bathroom with them. (snip)

As I'm still very much "new" to the whole thing, I'm kinda saving the pics for a day when I'm more "out". I would post so you can gauge my "passablity" but, like I said, still "new".

I always feel kinda guilty for using the family rooms because they are often the "handicap" rooms as well. It seems like when I want to use the family room, someone else that is handicap will be waiting outside when I leave. Makes it awkward y'know?

Also the "freak occurrence" thing, I want to say it was but I've had women walk past me in the restroom and kinda flinch or do that "double take" thing. It worries me that my "passability" is leaning more male than female at times.

Confidence isn't something that lands on you from out of the blue, it is something you gain by practice. So try, take your time it isn't a big deal, you are only getting rid of waste matter!!!

When I arrived at work as me the first time, one of the guys looked at me and just said, 'does this mean we have to make sure we put the toilet seat down?' I replied nah I'm a woman, I use the female loo.

End of discussion, no one has ever questioned it. Then again Aussies tend to be more laid back than most. I really can't understand the hassles of using a toilet in different parts of the world, it's not as if you are going to wee on someone for goddess sake

Quote from: Cindy. on May 31, 2013, 05:04:36 AM
Confidence isn't something that lands on you from out of the blue, it is something you gain by practice. So try, take your time it isn't a big deal, you are only getting rid of waste matter!!!

When I arrived at work as me the first time, one of the guys looked at me and just said, 'does this mean we have to make sure we put the toilet seat down?' I replied nah I'm a woman, I use the female loo.

End of discussion, no one has ever questioned it. Then again Aussies tend to be more laid back than most. I really can't understand the hassles of using a toilet in different parts of the world, it's not as if you are going to wee on someone for goddess sake

I wish it were so easy! Then again, I live in the Bible Belt. Strictly religious people that would be clutching their pearls if they saw me saunter into a men's restroom. I guess I worry more about some guys attempting to harass me. I've got an unfortunate history with males and that has made me too damn cautious at times.

I'm just a Nervous Nelly. lol

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:53:21 AM
I wish I could have that confidence level about things like this. Or at least the documents to help boast it up for me.

It takes time to build up that confidence, but nobody's going to give it to you. The only way to gain confidence is to push past your fears and start doing what you need to do.

I'm fortunate to have a letter from my therapist, but it isn't a magic shield that can protect me from harassment. I could still get a lot of grief from a bigoted security guard, letter or no letter. But it makes me feel more confident, so it helps me pass.

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:53:21 AM
My wife (MTF trans) is kinda useless when I ask her about these things. She just scratches her head and says "Well, you just go in and pee then leave".

See? Because your wife was (presumably) socialised as male whilst growing up, she's telling you exactly how guys tend to think and act in most public toilets, because she's been there and she's seen it first-hand.

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:53:21 AM
I'll just has to get some balls and just do it, eh? 

LOL - mine are virtual, but they do the job.

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:53:21 AM
I always feel kinda guilty for using the family rooms because they are often the "handicap" rooms as well. It seems like when I want to use the family room, someone else that is handicap will be waiting outside when I leave. Makes it awkward y'know?

Cindy (rightly) has strong opinions on this sort of thing because her wife is disabled, and I can see her point. But you know what? It's not your fault that the owners of the building don't provide any gender-neutral toilets apart from the disabled toilet. You're a human being. You need to go. If the only place you feel safe to use is the disabled toilet, then that's what you have to do. You're not doing it to be spiteful because if they provided more suitable facilities you'd use those instead. And if there are always long queues outside the disabled toilets, perhaps people should ask the building owners to provide better facilities.

I'm disabled, but mine isn't a visible disability. I can walk & talk just fine. But yeah, I know what you mean about that awkward feeling when a seemingly able-bodied person walks out of the disabled toilets. But those people giving you the stink-eye have no idea what's going on in your life. For all they know, you could have a colostomy bag or something.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on May 31, 2013, 05:24:52 AM
It takes time to build up that confidence, but nobody's going to give it to you. The only way to gain confidence is to push past your fears and start doing what you need to do. (snip)

You are certainly right. I know confidence doesn't fall in your lap or get handed to you. I wouldn't be the awkward but lovable jerk that I am. I wish it just fell from the sky at times but the first step to making that plunge is walking to the diving board first. I would consider using the family restrooms if the men's/women's restroom seems like a bad choice for the time. I don't want to be harassed by either gender but at the same time, I don't want to inconvenience someone who is disabled from using the only restroom that can accommodate them.

I kinda wonder what would've happened if I had spoke up before the woman ran out. Maybe my ego wouldn't be some bruised but it makes me kinda happy too. 

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 05:32:36 AM
You are certainly right. I know confidence doesn't fall in your lap or get handed to you. I wouldn't be the awkward but lovable jerk that I am. I wish it just fell from the sky at times but the first step to making that plunge is walking to the diving board first.

I'm convinced that this is one of the problems with being raised as female: we're generally taught to be meek and to seek consensus from other people before doing anything. Our brothers are generally taught to be confident and to do whatever they like as long as it's within the rules. We're told "you can't"; they're told "you can".

Part of transitioning from female to male is getting over that self-censorship so that we can gain the confidence our brothers developed over many years of male socialisation.

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 05:32:36 AM
I would consider using the family restrooms if the men's/women's restroom seems like a bad choice for the time. I don't want to be harassed by either gender but at the same time, I don't want to inconvenience someone who is disabled from using the only restroom that can accommodate them.

Which is why you're not a jerk. Using the toilet is a basic human need, and you have to do the best you can under the circumstances.

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 05:32:36 AM
I kinda wonder what would've happened if I had spoke up before the woman ran out. Maybe my ego wouldn't be some bruised but it makes me kinda happy too. 

In all seriousness, the situation may well have escalated because you'd then have an emotional 20-something woman complaining to a security guard about this 'perv' who's frightening her in the ladies' toilet.

If I were you, I'd use this as a springboard to start using the men's. Clearly the people around you think that's where you belong; maybe you should give it a try.

Just another one to throw in the idea of just using the men's.  Get the first time outta the way and you'll be fine.  Guys really don't care.  Guys go out of their way to NOT look at other guys in the bathroom, it's a place where you get in and get out again as fast as possible and without any words coming out of your mouth or any interaction taking place.  In the women's bathroom it's the opposite, women check out the other women in the bathroom.  They look at everyone and take in everything they see.  Almost like they're sizing up the competition. 

So yeah, another +1 vote for using the men's bathroom.  It can be difficult but once you get in there just one time and realise what it's actually like, you'll be fine.  I was scared about using the men's bathroom at first, now I'd be terrified to use the women's!

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:41:00 AM
You are correct to assume this happened in the USA. (Kinda funny how land of the free is so damn intolerant.)

I'm actually quite tempted to use the men's room. Unlike the women's, it seems like guys are just in and out. Throw on a cap, avoid eye contact, and I'd probably be good as gold.

I end up staring at the men's room sign for a couple minutes before just caving and going to the women's. I guess it never really bothered me because no one commented on this boyish creature using their restrooms but now, it kinda bugs me. I might have to make the plunge. I just worry that if the stalls are full and I have to wait, someone might see I'm not actually a guy. Are full stalls an issue with men's restrooms?

I think its the land of free because while you may have gotten screamed at, you still didnt get your head chopped off/lashed like you would have in the country where I live

Youre free to have short hair and wear men's clothes, and that girl is free to be obnoxious.

Still it does suck. I agree that confidence helps and maybe you should consider the mens room.  I also grew up in the bible belt, but I found the mens room to be no trouble.

Oh, geez, I'm sorry to hear that you were yelled at like that! While a lot of people look for opportunities to see what their passability is, that certainly isn't the way anyone would prefer to find out that sort of thing. There really should be more gender neutral bathrooms in USA to help people avoid these types of situations. I know I would have appreciated a gender neutral bathroom several months ago. When The Dark Knight Rises came out, I went with my boyfriend and some of my friends to see a special screening that showed all three of Christopher Nolan's Batman movies in a row, ending with the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises. Since some people will usually dress up at midnight showings, me and my boyfriend dressed as the Joker and Scarecrow. When I have on the full face make-up and the outfit, I really look like a guy. I was so afraid that when I had to go to the bathroom, people would freak out and think I was a pervert. When I did end up having to use the restroom, I walked in and the line of women waiting to use the stalls all turned around to look at me and I just held up my hands and said "I'm a female under this make-up, I promise!"

Quote from: Rinzler on May 31, 2013, 09:37:14 AM
When I did end up having to use the restroom, I walked in and the line of women waiting to use the stalls all turned around to look at me and I just held up my hands and said "I'm a female under this make-up, I promise!"

Other benefit: no line ups! Lol.

Seriously, what is the deal with women and bathrooms? 1) even going number 2 doesn't take as long as half the women take in stalls and 2) talking in a bathroom? REALLY?!  No...just, NO!

Quote from: Jack_M on May 31, 2013, 10:00:34 AM
Other benefit: no line ups! Lol.

Seriously, what is the deal with women and bathrooms? 1) even going number 2 doesn't take as long as half the women take in stalls and 2) talking in a bathroom? REALLY?!  No...just, NO!

^ This. 

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:41:00 AM
You are correct to assume this happened in the USA. (Kinda funny how land of the free is so damn intolerant.)

I'm actually quite tempted to use the men's room. Unlike the women's, it seems like guys are just in and out. Throw on a cap, avoid eye contact, and I'd probably be good as gold.

I end up staring at the men's room sign for a couple minutes before just caving and going to the women's. I guess it never really bothered me because no one commented on this boyish creature using their restrooms but now, it kinda bugs me. I might have to make the plunge. I just worry that if the stalls are full and I have to wait, someone might see I'm not actually a guy. Are full stalls an issue with men's restrooms?

BTW most guys do not wash their hands after peeing...unless somebody is looking at them ...LOL Also, they seldom admire themselves in the mirror.


Most dudes find a women using their bathroom amusing. A typical explanation for a girl discovered in the men's p0tty is to says something like: "sorry but the girl's was so dirty..or so crowded"

Quote from: wolfduality on May 31, 2013, 04:41:00 AM

I end up staring at the men's room sign for a couple minutes before just caving and going to the women's. I guess it never really bothered me because no one commented on this boyish creature using their restrooms but now, it kinda bugs me. I might have to make the plunge. I just worry that if the stalls are full and I have to wait, someone might see I'm not actually a guy. Are full stalls an issue with men's restrooms?

I totally understand your apprehension.  I remember back when I was transitioning in college and not passing too well.
I suggest you always try to find a family bathroom first.  But no, full stalls are typically never a problem.  The only times I have experienced full stalls was (always) at the airport, and at a concert during intermission.

Yeah, even if you are mistaken as female, guys aren't going to freak out.  I can't imagine a man screaming at you and calling you a pervert for using the men's room.  So, I wouldn't worry too much about using the boys room.

However, it is important to note that some guys may not be tolerant of transgender people.  You want to make sure that you are safe because somebody could react poorly if they detect that your trans and in "their sacred room".  But if you pass well, this shouldn't be much of an issue.

Quote from: peky on May 31, 2013, 10:20:03 AM
BTW most guys do not wash their hands after peeing...unless somebody is looking at them ...LOL Also, they seldom admire themselves in the mirror.

This is why I hate mens rooms.  Besides this, it's common for there to be pee all over the floor. 

Quote from: peky on May 31, 2013, 10:20:03 AM
BTW most guys do not wash their hands after peeing...unless somebody is looking at them ...LOL Also, they seldom admire themselves in the mirror.


Most dudes find a women using their bathroom amusing. A typical explanation for a girl discovered in the men's p0tty is to says something like: "sorry but the girl's was so dirty..or so crowded"

Yeah this ^^