I've been thinking today.

I'm kind of realizing just how little I know about fashion, and presentation, and just about being female in general. I realize that I'm still kind of tackling my presentation with a very male attitude, basically the one where you roll out of bed, throw on a shirt and jeans and a wig, and go out, and that's it. And you know, it makes me feel a bit inadequate, because all of the other girls around me have hand bags, and shoes, and makeup on, and have their hair done, and it just seems like there's so much subtle little fashion sense that goes into it, so many little things that make them look "polished" and put-together, which I basically know absolutely nothing about. I still have almost no female clothes, I don't have any female shoes at all, have no freaking clue about accessorizing, don't own any jewelry, don't own any makeup and have never even attempted to use the stuff, and, well, it makes me feel a little bit inadequate.

The problem is, I still have this personal issue where I'm not comfortable going into the women's section of stores. I don't feel like I belong there, like I'm some foreign invader going where I'm not supposed to. So although I really want to learn, really want to start working on developing the same kind of fashion sense through trial and error like every single one of the women around me went through, I have a hard time convincing myself that it's okay to do it... a hard time accepting myself as female, and realizing that it's completely okay for me to be clothes-shopping in that section, and that there's nothing to be embarrassed about by going into the makeup section. (My first time in there was seriously emotional torture... I went in there to ask about Dermablend to cover up my mustache shadow, but not only did I feel stupid the whole time I was there, (despite getting NO backlash from the sales lady whatsoever,) I felt stupid afterward while wearing the stuff too, and ended up taking it off after only like 30 minutes, and haven't used it since.)

Again, I don't know where this feeling of aversion, this fear, came from. But it's keeping me from feeling like a real woman, and making me feel like a fake, just someone who's trying and failing to dress as my identity gender but isn't really a member of that gender.

So my question is, anyone else who had a hard time with this same thing in the beginning, how did you get over your fears? How did you reach a better point of self-acceptance where you began to feel comfortable in the spaces of your identity gender, doing the things of your identity gender? (Specifically shopping for clothes and makeup and other very gender-specific things.)

And again, it's not like I'm having doubts about my gender identity or anything, because I still LOVE every single one of the changes that HRT is bringing, and am indeed starting to feel female physically, and I love every single second of it! (Actually liking my body for the first time since puberty!) But there's still just this mental block there, this problem with self-acceptance where I don't feel like a "real" woman, and there's still this lingering sense of shame whenever I think about going shopping for clothes and makeup that makes me feel like I don't belong there, and makes me feel stupid and feel shameful even when I do get there and get the courage to try stuff.

Advice?

You adapt over time - especially when full-time, I think.

My fashion sense may be somewhat stillborn, but I'm learning - slowly. And I think being full-time will give me plenty of license to experiment. And show up to work five hours late with finally-not-horrible hair.

What your experiencing in two words...

Internalized transphobia.

The interesting part is that Im just starting to transition and Im going through the same thing as you right now...I'm utterly afraid to go into the makeup section for fear of looking "out of place" or "buying the wrong thing for $50".

Advice...find an trans friend that you can get help from...I have an FTM friend...but he's busy so I haven't gotten around to any major clothes shopping/makeup shopping. Alternatively, find a girl friend (friend friend) who is a trans or LGBT ally. Otherwise...you pretty much have to go it alone when shopping.

I personally found it more awkward when I went shopping in the adult store for...*ahem*...certain female specific toys. It's still difficult for me to go shopping for girl stuff, but it's definitely going to be easier than shopping for "toys".

I watched a couple of your videos, and you're already really starting to look quite pretty. The good part is that you can only get more beautiful as you continue on in your transition.

Hugs,
-Skye

In my case, I know well that I am between men and women. Some people may think I am queer and idiosyncratic, but I am unique, and do not need to emulate hard other women. I just want to be comfortable at who I am. I can enjoy shopping at women's corner. I sometimes enter women's restroom depending on the circumstance. No HRT. Some people mention my manly voice, which is in contrast to my feminine appearance. I am not allowed to wear skirts everyday, but I can occasionally wear them. I tend to be bold in fashion and body exposure, because I have not had enough chances to do it. That is who I am.

barbie~~

Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 02, 2013, 03:22:03 PM
I've been thinking today.

I'm kind of realizing just how little I know about fashion, and presentation, and just about being female in general. I realize that I'm still kind of tackling my presentation with a very male attitude, basically the one where you roll out of bed, throw on a shirt and jeans and a wig, and go out, and that's it. And you know, it makes me feel a bit inadequate, because all of the other girls around me have hand bags, and shoes, and makeup on, and have their hair done, and it just seems like there's so much subtle little fashion sense that goes into it, so many little things that make them look "polished" and put-together, which I basically know absolutely nothing about. I still have almost no female clothes, I don't have any female shoes at all, have no freaking clue about accessorizing, don't own any jewelry, don't own any makeup and have never even attempted to use the stuff, and, well, it makes me feel a little bit inadequate.

I had this same feeling all my life. I don't know but maybe if I had had any female friends to help me, I'd have done better. (Or not.)
I second Sky-blue's suggestion that you could use a friend to help you. It'd be best if you have a mix of cis and trans friends to shop with. Because trans women can help with trans specific fashion issues and cis women can help with general stuff, plus they've likely had many more years experience. Women supposedly love shopping and makeovers (not that I know firsthand), so you could probably ask an acquaintance for help and she'd probably be delighted, even flattered to show you the ropes. Just tell her you love her style.

I seem to have this phobia too. And of course also i look at one of my posts here hours later, ask myself what the hell did i write, think, but know i really mean it.

Carrie I use to be the same way about shopping what helped me the most was the realization that if I was ever going to be the woman I felt I was I had to get over the fear of shopping for women's clothes. So completely in guy mode I started shopping a little bit at a time and started buying more and more until about after a month I was completely comfortable in the women section to be honest I've only been in a men's clothing section once in the last six months and I feel more uncomfortable there now than I do in the women's section.
As far as your fashion sense goes you got to learn what you like! And what colors go best with each other. Just remember men's clothing is all about conforming but women's is all about self expression! The point I'm trying to make is be yourself! Don't try to be somebody else's idea of what a woman should look like. Find your on style girl and rock it! There is going to be a rough phase that every trans woman must go through but the key thing is learn what style best suites you. And what best expresses the woman you are! Good luck Carrie and happy shopping you can do this!

my fear is also of people seeing me there. What can i do to overcome that?

Quote from: CalmRage on June 02, 2013, 04:13:02 PM
my fear is also of people seeing me there. What can i do to overcome that?

I can tell you for a fact as someone that has spent a lot of time in women's sections in girl and guy mode nobody really cares! Yeah they may look at me weird but to be honest most people don't even look at me. I've never had anyone confront me ever and I mean ever! Most of this is not the big deal we make it out to be! It's really not I used to be just as scared of how people would react too. It's really like anything practice makes perfect and the more you shop and realize nobody cares the more comfortable you'll be!

I'm still a little worried that people will think I'm a perv when I go shopping but I like shopping too much to let it stop me. I don't know about cis women but I'm pretty sure I have an innate love of shopping and a sense for style.

Quote from: Heather on June 02, 2013, 04:23:43 PM
I can tell you for a fact as someone that has spent a lot of time in women's sections in girl and guy mode nobody really cares! Yeah they may look at me weird but to be honest most people don't even look at me. I've never had anyone confront me ever and I mean ever! Most of this is not the big deal we make it out to be! It's really not I used to be just as scared of how people would react too. It's really like anything practice makes perfect and the more you shop and realize nobody cares the more comfortable you'll be!

And always remember, if someone directly challenges you you can always threaten to lift your shirt and prove you belong there.

Quote from: ZoeM on June 02, 2013, 04:26:16 PM
And always remember, if someone directly challenges you you can always threaten to lift your shirt and prove you belong there.

As much as I complain about being 6'1 it does have the advantage of not having people get in your face and confront you! And if they ever do I do know how to run my mouth quite effectively and will probably end up embarrassing them far more than they will me. But I doubt that will ever happen.

Learning to accept myself is an ongoing issue right now.  I can go into public very easily, but it doesn't take much to be self conscious and think everyone knows I'm transgender.  I think Zoe is right ... you adapt over time.  The more I am me, the better I feel about me.

This self acceptance thing eludes me too, but I can agree with the rest about the shopping. You build it up to be a lot worse than it will ever be. I've had a few sales people give me glances as I walked into the women's section, but never enough to make me feel uncomfortable. It was more of a glance that said they saw something moving out of the corner of their eye and decided to take a look. Most of them probably just assume that you're buying something for a friend or relative and don't think anything of it. I thought makeup would be rough because what woman asks a man to go buy makeup for her? But again, no bad press from the peanut gallery.

I share your feelings on the self acceptance issue, but not too much on the fashion one.   If I wasn't so damn afraid to go shopping all the time and poor, I would have an amazing wardrobe,lol.  Just wear what you want and have fun with it.  Sometimes experimenting can really be worth it.   And there is plenty of great fashion tips online.  You can learn a lot by looking it up.

Do you have any girlfriends to go shopping with?  It may make things easier.  All my shopping has been online and I'm dying to get in stores.  But I have a lot of fear.  So once I get over it, I'm going to go out shopping with one of my friends.  It makes me feel a lot more confident about actually doing so. 

I thought I would share one more thing Everything we do to make progress in transitioning takes self acceptance and it really don't happen overnight it varies from person to person so don't feel bad if you can't make the leap just yet to whatever is scaring. It will happen when your ready to accept it. Nobody can transition for you its all up to you with the pace your most comfortable with. Now I can't take total credit for this post I have a friend who has recently taught me the importance of how self acceptance and transitioning go hand and hand. It was such great advice I thought it just had to be passed along.

Great topic Carrie!

When I started transitioning I too was petrified of shopping for clothes and makeup. I have been buying foundation forever but I always went to the supermarket with a self-checkout lane and just grabbed the bottle and ran. I prob brought a lot more attention to myself by being so sneaky. I bought my first outfits at a thrift store and it does take a little of the edge off since everything is not so gender segregated but it is still seperate enough. Plus I had to purchase the items. The first time is always the hardest. But after I did it I realized it wasn't that big of a deal. A lot of it is in our minds. Me, myself, I yearned for as long as I can remember to shop for the stuff I really wanted to wear instead of drab male clothes with no flair or sense of style. (Though I did manage to get some style in men's clothes!)

Makeup was hard at first too. But I went into Sephora and asked the salesguy for good foundation to cover up beard shadow (basically admitting I'm trans) and voila. He tried it out on my skin right there and I even signed up for a Sephora card). And now it is the easiest thing in the world. I go into the makeup section and just browse and look at all the awesome stuff. I shop for clothes like I belong there. Cause I do. It is the single greatest part of transition for me. It's like a dream come true. Just last year I used to have to shut my eyes or hold my gaze when I walked by the women's section because it just hirt too much knowing what I can't have. And now a year later it's all mine and no one so much looks at me or gives me a second glance. All the fear about people pointing and laughing and snickering "look at the man checking out that cute top" was just my own fears getting the better of me.

I will third Sky-blue's suggestion to go with a friend the first time as that will take a lot of the edge off. But I think the second time you will want to go yourself and face the fear. the best way to overcome the fear is to face it head on. Then you'll be able to shop by yourself all the time and I can tell you it is awesome. I can finally wear clothes that actually fit and don't fall of me cause they are too big even in smalls.

As far as learning about fashion I would start checking out fashion blogs and seeing what celebs are wearing and reading Vogue and Marie Claire and InStyle. You'll want the actual magazine not just the online version as women's mags don't put all their stuff online unless you have a subscription. Running a women's mag is hard work and it doesn't make sense to put it all online for free. (I used to work for one).

You'll just have to go with trial and error and find your style. I would recommend shopping in store and not online as you will find a lot of stuff in stores that you won't find online.

You're looking good in your avatar so really you have nothing to worry about. The feeling isn't so much self-acceptance I think then just basic psychology from being raised male and all that that implies, i.e men don't go in the women's section. Every guy knows this. But you are no longer a guy so you'll have to shake that socialization.

Once you get over this fear you will feel so liberated. Heck, I was apllying mascara in a car mirror on busy street today in broad daylight and no one thought it was odd at all. Or gave me a second look. Just another girl freshening up her makeup.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 02, 2013, 10:55:20 PM






The feeling isn't so much self-acceptance I think then just basic psychology from being raised male and all that that implies, i.e men don't go in the women's section. Every guy knows this. But you are no longer a guy so you'll have to shake that socialization.

I think its the way society wrongly views femininity as weakness is the problem here. If society would fully accept that women have just as much value as a man this would not be a problem. 

Quote from: Heather on June 02, 2013, 11:15:47 PM
I think its the way society wrongly views femininity as weakness is the problem here. If society would fully accept that women have just as much value as a man this would not be a problem.

Feminity is definitely frowned upon in men and considered the worst thing imaginable. Everything bad is associated with it. "You throw like a girl." "You hit like a girl." "Stop acting like a girl." "Boys don't cry." and the ultimate: "Man up."

This is one of the major problems we face as trans women. The inherent stigma associated with femininity. I am pretty sure every guy is uncomfortable going in the women's section because it is a place only women go and men can never be associated with that.

Men probably have an easier time accepting FTMs then MTFs because of this because guys think "Why wouldn't someone want to be a man" and never understand why someone would want to be a weak frail girl. I am far from saying FTMs have it easier, they don't, just in this respect I think it may be easier. I obviously could be wrong.

I am far from saying FTMs have it easier just the fact guys think everyone wants to be a guy and if you don't you are a traitor. Sorry for the tangent. And please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Anyhoo, this "male is the best. woman = weak" is socialized in every male so I think it is a big part of the fear of the women's section. Every guy I know gets weird in the women's section without exception. That's why facing the fear is so important a big stpe in the right dierection in accepting yourself and becoming comfortable in the new role. It has to be done there is no way around it. It is prob one of the more important parts of transition.

For instance, my one friend asked me once why I have so many platonic female friends and that he would never do it and he doesn't understand how I get along with women so well and especially because it doesn't seem like an act or sex strategy. He even comes to me on advice and always asks me why does she feel this way and other insight lol. That is all.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 02, 2013, 11:41:30 PM

That's why facing the fear is so important a big stpe in the right dierection in accepting yourself and becoming comfortable in the new role. It has to be done there is no way around it. It is prob one of the more important parts of transition.

You are so right! If I had not confronted this fear head on I would not be the woman I am today. Once I got past that fear it helped me believe I could really do this.