obviously barring some mental defect, do you think that our problems could be solved through education? of course the term [evil] is a relative concept but when taken into account with the golden rule certain principles are constant. for instance, i don't think you could find anyone that would genuinely like their life to be unfair or that they are treated unjustly. people who kill others are taught from somewhere that it is ok, either always or in that specific situation. if this is the case, what needs to change? thoughts? objections? ideas? opinions?

Well, I think that ignorance is the root of suffering, inextricably tied in with craving. Both stem from another root, delusion.
That one's ego-structure and the 'needs' that follow assume a kind of paramount importance, over "the rest o' y'all".

Some or all of this might be solved by 'education'. What kind of education, though? What you tend to get 'in school' reinforces, amplifies the delusion, at least in part. And the only kind of togetherness that is important in such a system is to be a cog in a wheel, which goes round and round to keep the delusion happening, that *stuff* (more necessarily equals more) is all there is to it.

Golden rules tend to have exceptions in this society, EG: do unto others as you would have others etc, as long as you don't get in the way of my intended acquistions.

"Thou shalt not covet, PERIOD" might be a good foundation for some part of one's education, to my view.

nota

No I don't think ignorance is the root of all evil. I don't believe that there is a root, in my opinion commiting an evil act is the person's choice and cannot be blamed on ignorance or greed or any of that. The person can choose to commit the act or they can choose not to. They can still be ignorant, greedy, have a lack of forsight, fear non survival and still not be evil.

Quote from: Jeannette on June 21, 2007, 05:34:50 PM
No I don't think ignorance is the root of all evil. I don't believe that there is a root

Define root of, give examples.

none

Quote from: None of the Above on June 21, 2007, 05:42:37 PM

Quote from: Jeannette on June 21, 2007, 05:34:50 PM
No I don't think ignorance is the root of all evil. I don't believe that there is a root

Define root of, give examples.

none

not the topic of this thread question.  Sorry.

Yes, I believe it is. If you say there is no root to evil, what does root, viz a viz choice, mean to you? This is a philosophical discussion. I think.

Quote from: Katia on June 21, 2007, 02:52:41 PM
obviously barring some mental defect, do you think that our problems could be solved through education? of course the term [evil] is a relative concept but when taken into account with the golden rule certain principles are constant. for instance, i don't think you could find anyone that would genuinely like their life to be unfair or that they are treated unjustly. people who kill others are taught from somewhere that it is ok, either always or in that specific situation. if this is the case, what needs to change? thoughts? objections? ideas? opinions?

This is an interesting dilemma, which I am sure you intended. (btw, you have had some really good philosophical questions lately) I guess it could be argued by all sides that the problems of mankind are rooted in ignorance. But the problem is, what do we teach to relieve our ignorance? Do we teach what you think is true? What I think is true? What Einstein thinks is true? What the Catholic Church thinks is true? What Buddha thought was true?

Without absolute truth, there can be no absolute wisdom. Without absolute wisdom, there will always be ignorance.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Much of our problems are rooted in ignorance, but that ignorance is fueled by power players.  If those in command didn't condone gay bashing for example, there might be a lot less of it.

I do believe however that education is something that we all can work on to better the world.  People need hope for something better.  They need to know how to achieve it.  Right now, they rely on old wives' tales and superstition.  It ain't workin.

Cindi

Quote from: Elizabeth on June 21, 2007, 07:00:14 PM
... the problem is, what do we teach to relieve our ignorance? Do we teach what you think is true? What I think is true? What Einstein thinks is true? What the Catholic Church thinks is true? What Buddha thought was true?

Without absolute truth, ...

What IF all of the above has an absolute root in truth? Instead of asking why this individual's truth, et cetera ... why not look for a common ground? After all, all religions (the ones that strive for the Not Evil thing, anyways) have the equivalence of a golden rule; you start trying to break that into separate pieces, via language, etc, it tends to become confused.

aota

I think this would be a better world if every child in every country was given laptop computer and access to the internet.

Quote from: Ell on June 22, 2007, 12:52:50 AM
for good or ill, education in the US builds power structures. those with good enough grades can ride through the system almost as easily those whose parents can afford to send them to Yale.

what do they learn? they learn that their education can give them advantage for obtaining powerful leadership positions either in industry or government.

they drill oil in the wilderness. or provide the contracts for the drilling.
they spill carcinogens into the waste stream, with their 'useful' products.
they manipulate stock and commodity prices.

the education you seek, such as useful shamanism and helpful philosophy is very cheap, by comparison, and is available just about everywhere. who cares? few people really address the issue of, what the Dalai Lama called, "building a personality." 

   

I suppose you could find a dark side to anything if you look hard enough, if you look back at yourself, the fact that you wrote all these complaints about how we are falling short of our responsibility to build our own personalities tells me that you have at least some education. So maybe educaton reform is what your looking for. May I suggest the book fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury.

I think ignorance is the root of evil, but ignorance can never be educated away I don't think. I think only experience dispels ignorance, and experience is frowned upon in this world.

1. do you think that our problems could be solved through education?
2. What needs to change? thoughts? objections? ideas? opinions?

1. Not Entirely.
2. The ability to assimilate new ideas into one's existing set of ideas, and modify currently existing ideas to adapt to the new information.

There is a difference between education and learning.

For instance, if one's world assumption is the following:
a. God is always right and does not make mistakes.
b. God creates all things.
c. The bible is infallible word of God.
d. Any behavior that deviates from the biblical word of God is sinful.
e. Homosexuality is against the infallible word of God.
f. It is the duty of a christian to 'help' people who are sinful.
g. I am a christian.
h. Sin is evil.

And you educate them with some statement, for instance, "There is strong evidence that Sexual preference is genetic and therefore predetermined. As evidence by .... <scientific study and analysis>"

And they do not update their existing worldview based on this new information
1. they must either reject the statement outright regardless of the evidence, or
2. they are forced into a conclusion that homosexuality is evil, regardless of genetics or nature, or
3. they must update their worldviews.

We have eliminated that the individual will choose 3.

You then provide evidence that, based on their worldview,
God must have created their genetics.  They are again, forced into the conclusion that God has created this 'challenge' that, because it is sinful, and therefore evil, so it must be overcome.  Furthermore, because it is sinful in this individual's world view, that person will always seek to 'help' the sinner.

This is just an example.

Therefore, simply, education is not enough if they are unwilling to change their worldview.

Ignorance is simply 'not knowing'
The Individual in question has been exposed to the knowledge, and has incorporated that knowledge into his existing world view but has not changed any of his or her world views.  This person is no longer ignorant, but has reached a completely different conclusion knowing the new piece of information because of his or her world view, or set of preexisting assumptions.

Education will not fix that.

I do not think Ignorance is the root of all evil.
I think outdated, rigid, thinking and refusal to update preexisting assumptions probably is.

I think that fear is at the root.

I can agree with that.

Fear can be a primary reason one would refuse to change preexisting notions.

I'm a perfect example.
Not that I am evil, but, my fear of the unknown is why I can't change my existing world view.

You all would laugh hysterically at my attempt to translate my heuristics and find an answer.

Jessica

Based on Jessica's post, and other information that correlates with it, I would tend to agree that education is not the fix.

However, at a more fundamental level, I might suggest that an education that includes some emphasis on Ethics could help to some degree.

Of course there are reasons in (for example) an education system that more-or-less stems from a top down type of structure, such as we have in the USA, that this won't happen anytime soon. Such an emphasis would tend to expose the workings 'at the top' which can be shown to systematically subvert basic ethical principles.

Quote from: Jessica on June 22, 2007, 12:53:29 PM

You all would laugh hysterically at my attempt to translate my heuristics and find an answer.

Well, I can always use a good laugh...

Hysterically yours
n

I have heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss". And that money is the root of all evil! Im not sure what your talking about??

Quote from: NatalieCarole on June 24, 2007, 08:40:03 PM
I have heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss". And that money is the root of all evil! Im not sure what your talking about??

Love of money is the root of all evil.

Quote from: Jonie on June 26, 2007, 12:07:38 AM

Quote from: NatalieCarole on June 24, 2007, 08:40:03 PM
I have heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss". And that money is the root of all evil! Im not sure what your talking about??

Love of money is the root of all evil.

Oh its 'love' of money. I dont think loving something is evil! That doesnt make sense. If its evil its not love!

Quote from: NatalieCarole on June 26, 2007, 01:18:51 AM

Quote from: Jonie on June 26, 2007, 12:07:38 AM

Quote from: NatalieCarole on June 24, 2007, 08:40:03 PM
I have heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss". And that money is the root of all evil! Im not sure what your talking about??

Love of money is the root of all evil.

Oh its 'love' of money. I dont think loving something is evil! That doesnt make sense. If its evil its not love!

The quote reads:

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
1 Timothy 6:9-11 (in Context) 1 Timothy 6 (Whole Chapter)

That's all I'm saying