I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

Well, the word "most" is kind of loaded here since
its not really known if mtf's breasts grow as big
as their genetic potential.

But, my opinion is that mtf, if properly treated, and not
too old, can reach their genetic breast size potential.

If consider than the main difference between
transitioning earlier and later, when considering
the breasts, is HGH (human growth hormone).
With age, this factor decreases, but the speed of the decrease
and is highly variable. With a lower HGH, breast growth
will be slower, yet should reach its genetic potential eventually
if a decent feminising dosage of hormones is taken for the
entire period no matter how long it is.

Say, at puberty, 2 year to get full devellopment, could become
5 years at 40, for some people (for others, it could be 2, or 8 ).

Past a certain point (different for every person), the age related HGH decrease, impact breast
growth rate so much that it might never reach its potential before death.
This happens in very high proportion in older TS's,
say those of 60 or more, but could happen earlier too.

Anyway, in my opinion, if your under 40 and under a decent feminising regime, you should be able to
to reach most of your genetic potential, whatever it may be, inside 5 years.

That being said, some are not patient, don't like the hand genetics, or in the case of
older TS's, are not ready to wait 15 years taking a high dose of hormones to achieve
full growth, so they go for a breast implant.

It is not recommended though to do it before having waited 2 years for hormones to work (and as I
said, in older patients, you may be surprised by the growth you get after that on top of your implant).

Myself, I've had 36C in 11 months at 39 years old. Not a typical result, but not that exceptional.

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

Yes!  They do get implants. A few use herbs, but the results are not as good as getting hormones from a doctor or from overseas.

I guess I started with mail order hormones, and tried a few herbals. Then scraped up the nerve to see a local doctor, so I could get legal estrogen from Costco (the discount chain.) I just got 360 pills for $24 and change. Truly an amazing price. 

I must be low on HGH, because in over 3 years I still am about a 38AA.    Easy to hide, but less then I would really like to have. Walmart's 38b water bra helps a bit, but not enough.

I probably will some time get implants. I can not wait for ever, and at 62 it has been a long wait.





*edited to remove mg

"anything at all" is when you barely have bumps let alone can't fill a bra. Me, myself and I er I am in the can't fill a bra club; Getting closer as time goes on but ^*sigh* I don't want a BA, really I don't. But I wanna be flat even less. ^*frown*

Quote from: Keira on May 27, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
Well, the word "most" is kind of loaded here since
its not really known if mtf's breasts grow as big
as their genetic potential.

But, my opinion is that mtf, if properly treated, and not
too old, can reach their genetic breast size potential.

If consider than the main difference between
transitioning earlier and later, when considering
the breasts, is HGH (human growth hormone).
With age, this factor decreases, but the speed of the decrease
and is highly variable. With a lower HGH, breast growth
will be slower, yet should reach its genetic potential eventually
if a decent feminising dosage of hormones is taken for the
entire period no matter how long it is.

Say, at puberty, 2 year to get full devellopment, could become
5 years at 40, for some people (for others, it could be 2, or 8 ).

Past a certain point (different for every person), the age related HGH decrease, impact breast
growth rate so much that it might never reach its potential before death.
This happens in very high proportion for in
older TS's, say those of 65 or more, but could happen earlier too.

Anyway, in my opinion, if your under 40 and under a decent feminising regime, you should be able to
to reach most of your genetic potential, whatever it may be, inside 5 years.

That being said, some are not patient, or don't like the hand genetics handed them and do
go for a breast implant. It is not recommended though to do it before having waited 2 years for hormones to work.

Myself, I've had 36C in 11 months at 39 years old. Not a typical result, but not that exceptional.

Great points



Personally, i love my A cup boobs. I may eventually reach a B but from now I am content with what I have so far. I am doing it by way of hormones. I have way too many reservations with implants to ever get them.

Quote from: Keira on May 27, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
---snip---
If consider than the main difference between
transitioning earlier and later, when considering
the breasts, is HGH (human growth hormone).
With age, this factor decreases, but the speed of the decrease
and is highly variable. With a lower HGH, breast growth
will be slower, yet should reach its genetic potential eventually
if a decent feminising dosage of hormones is taken for the
entire period no matter how long it is. ---snip---

Has anyone heard of someone adding HGH to get better results?   

Most say that we will develope to 1 cup size smaller then your mother or sister. Mom and sis are both small, I do not have a chance. 

HGH don't only impact the breasts and it is NOT recommended you use them past puberty.
Their effect are systemic and not necesserily what you'd want.

The one cup smaller than your sister thing is a myth, based on very little data.

Its only true if past SRS, you cut your hormone dosage to menopausal values.

At puberty, lower estrogen values have more effect (because of HGH).
That's why younger TS feminize more rapidly than older ones.
Older ones must take a higher dose to compensate for HGH decreasing
(but because higher doses carry side effects and there's a limit to estrogen receptor binding,
past a certain age, its not possible to fully compensate and devellopment speed decreases
VS that of a younger TS)

If you cut the dosage to menopausal levels too early, you cut yourself short and
decrease or almost halt feminisation speed.

Quote from: VickieDavis on May 27, 2007, 11:24:38 PM

Has anyone heard of someone adding HGH to get better results?   

Most say that we will develope to 1 cup size smaller then your mother or sister. Mom and sis are both small, I do not have a chance. 

The boobs don't make the woman so you will be just fine

I began hormones at age 61 and had SRS at 63.  I developed "nearly B" breasts after 2 to 3 years and had saline implants at age 65.  Now 70, all seems to be stable at 38C (40B, actually). 

Your mileage may vary.

Robyn

Well well.....more boob chat.  We can't seem to get enough of it.  What about all the other wonderful things, like the wonderful changes that happen to your face?  Or the wonderful changes that happen to your bottom (Marcy loves my bottom.  I think it's kinda cute myself).  What about all the other things?  Women aren't just breasts, after all...
For me, I didn't think I'd ever get into an 'A' cup, then I thought I'd never get into a 'B' cup.  My 'B' is now a B+, and still slowly but surely going, even at 50-something.  I guess I'll end up a 'C'. 
That's on a proper regimen of estrogen 2 1/4 yrs, with spiro the last 10 months. My start date was Jan 15, 2005.
Relax.....give the magic of hrt time.

Bev

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs? 

I have to wonder what is behind your question.  Are you saying that you have no intention of using prescription hormones?  Certainly, noone gets significant breast growth from herbals alone, so if those are your only two options, implants make sense.  On the other hand if you are talking about using prescription hormones at the same time as herbals, that would be a mistake.  Phytoestrogens reduce the effectiveness of prescription estrogen. 

My personal preference is not get implants.  They look nice but don't feel right.

Quote from: Bev on May 31, 2007, 09:26:05 PM
What about all the other things?  Women aren't just breasts, after all...

That's what our society thinks.

Quote from: Lisbeth on May 31, 2007, 09:58:15 PM
That's what our society thinks.

Then, I'll do as I have all my life, and follow my heart.  Always have ignored convention.

Bev

Nothing behind my question lisbeth, I was just wondering, I am full of questions and that just happened to be one of them hehe. 

I will say that when I was 19 I had A cups. I am 32 now an they are a full C cup. Everyone will get different results and there are many determining factors.
This might belong in the sexuality forumn, but if you have a partner that plays with them they will get bigger to some extent, buy every little bit helps

Deb

Quote from: Keira on May 27, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
Myself, I've had 36C in 11 months at 39 years old. Not a typical result, but not that exceptional.

That's the same size I wear.  I've been on hormones for 16 months and I'm 29, but I can't say when they reached that size because I had been wearing WAY too small of a bra until recently.

In my rather long introduction, I told that I was raised as a girl for reason that are complicated, but should be read in the Introductions area as I don't want to go through writing it all over again...but...

I had estrogen for the treatment of migraines, and it worked for that the very week I started the drug...but my doctor told me to stay on the same prescription for at least six months to make sure that the migraines were really gone. He was an endo in Long Beach, California and had a rather unorthodox way of treating conditions off primary prescription use. Whatever...it worked and I have not had a migraine since. Bless him!   

Two months into the regimen, my wife noted that I was developing a shelf that was noticeable in my pullover sweaters. I had gone through the discovery that they were sore and itched and could jiggle a little when I washed my hair with my arms over my head.

In that first six months I developed the B+'s that later leveled out to full C's which I wear happily to this day.

My growth was not typical..and I have not seen too many of us who got such rapid growth and size with such a short regimen. I never took T-blockers, but just the estrogen all that time. Somehow it just clicked and I got fantastic growth all the while not losing my male libido.

Keeping another full year's worth of the pills on hand should the migraines return (I am deathly afraid of their return!) I started to take them again after my first wife passed away as I was depressed..I know: not a good or correct reason!......and went all the way to full-blown 38C's.

So..ultimately I took estrogen for just under eighteen months and got to where I am today. I didn't mention the brand name or the dosage this time..lol.

Skin got a lot softer and I noticed my nails got thinner, my hair more lush and I could cry at a sad movie. Getting all choked up at the sight of something stirring was a new feeling and I seem to have moved from the visual need of eroticism to literature and reading for entertainment. I got some fat redistributed to my hips, but not a whole lot. Measurements are 39-27-38, and is still a little easy to conceal. Fitting for suits and shirts is a lot harder however.

My sense of smell increased and I developed cataracts and a detached retina which may or not be related. I also got osteoporosis, but that too might just be a genetic thing. My osteo is at >2.5, if I got the numbers or the symbol correct..but it too is full blown osteo and I have to be very careful any more about breaking bones or whatever. 

All this for a simple migraine cure.  But I got b(*)(*)bs.

I like the way they are in my way sometimes...I like the way they feel when I lie on my back or step off a curb when they "snap" in the bra cups. I can still see my feet..but I have to look around them now. I like the way they roll on my chest during sex with my wife. I love the way they hang from my chest when I am leaning over something or someone. They're still perky, after all they are a lot younger than a natal girl's since I got mine after my 36th birthday. .

But I digress (again) and this topic is BREASTS..so, yes I have nice ones IMHO and my current wife loves them as much as I do and I don't want to change them, me or anything in my life at the moment. 

I believe in medicines, not herbs or potions, salves or wishes. I got mine the old fashioned way...I had drugs.

Quote from: Tink on May 27, 2007, 11:08:55 PM
Through the double S treatment!    Oh, by double S treatment, I mean:

SS = Silcone or Saline.  Yeah, some of us do not develop anything at all despite the massive dosages of hormones, so our only option is to get help from the breast fairy.


tink

Indeed.

Silly perhaps as it may sound, this was one of the best things that has ever happened for me.

Quote from: Kira on May 27, 2007, 10:29:34 PM
I am wondering, how do most MtF's achieve the breast size they desire?  Do most get actual implants or do they use herbs?  I have wanted, and desire breasts and have began to consider breast implants.  Is this the best or are there other alternatives that aren't quite so risky?

I can't get any kind of breast size or shape. I've been on hormones a long time, about 7 years. My breasts don't even successfully fill an A cup, so there's no point in wearing a bra. They also don't have the right female shape and look more pear drop shape as apposed to a round shape. My nipples also haven't developed much either and look like male nipples. They are slowly improving but it's taken a very long time.

I have got a breast operation booked in and I would have love to develop my own breasts but it's not happening. I've tried a lot of different things over the years but nothing really works. My friend is the same age and height as me and she also had to have a boob job.

People with endomophic bodyshapes stand a better chance but I think the true limitations of hormones should be more widely explained. Individials vary but the majority do not gain the same kind of breast tissue as a genetic female.

Berliegh, I don't doubt your difficulty to get even the  breast size you've got.
But, saying that most won't reach their genetic potential is totally unproved my anyone.
Even anecdotes are all over the place.

I've got more than my sister, and will get more than my mother had when she was young very soon.
In fact, in my whole family tree and cousins, etc, there's nobody with more than a D cup (only 2 D out of more than 60 women, there's a very good chance I'll reach it).

The only know fact is that generally it takes longer to devellop than GG's if you've got the same E level because of declining human growth hormone levels (not everybody declines the same way, some barely decline at all). A normal pubescent girl can take 7 years to have fully grown breasts (though most of it happens with 3 years).

Just imagine if your HGH is half that of a teen and keep the estrogen level the same, the result will be that it will take 14 years to reach your full genetic potential. What if your genetic potential was to be an A or a small B (a very large number of GG's are that size), well then you can end up after 7 years with less than a A cup. Finally, breast gland doesn't devellop in proportion to your body size, so on top of all I've said before, someone with a big frame will wind up with breasts that are proportionally smaller than if that person had got the hormones at puberty with a smaller frame.

So, all those factors put together means that TS with larger frames will not get proportionate breasts even if they wait a long time. Other TS, who have small genetic breasts, a small frame and low HGH will take so long to devellop even to their genetic potential that their patience will run out. Those with larger genetic breast and low HGH, may or may not have the patience to wait out their full devellopment, they get implants and often get more devellopment on top of that (making them top heavy).

Finally, those with a higher HGH, a smaller frame, are in the same boat as GG's, they may end up with small or big breasts and after 2 years may elect to augment them.


Its possible to partially compensate lower HGH levels by pushing estrogen levels higher, but there is a diminsihing return to this because of the increasing risk of DVT (especialy in the older TS which would most profit from this) and the fact that doubling E doesn't come close to doubling results

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 04:52:30 AM
Hi all,

Just put my pennyworth in. As some of you know only just started attending a clinic here but started with herbs six months ago. I am past 38A and almost a B. I am 133lbs and 5ft 6inch. I love them. I just wonder what will happen when on HRT, OMG, lol.

Hugs and kisses

Nigella

I never heard of anyone getting breast growth from herbs....what kind of herbs are they? they must have eostrogen in them somewhere but I don't think you can buy anything like that at the health food shop like Holland and Barrett...