Ok, some of you may have noticed references to possibly being intersex in some of my earlier posts. I am curious about it, but am Transgender either way. Here is a list of reasons I question it,

1 Both of my brothers were born at a small time hospital, while because of complications that I haven't been informed on they had go to a big city hospital for me, I am 3rd child. Everytime I ask anything about it they just change subject. I have gotten out of them that she was on birth control when I was conceived.

2. growing up My mom always compared my hands, feet, bicepts with hers. Didn't ever notice her doing that with my brothers. She would say how she can't believe how big they are with exception with bicepts which never got bigger than hers.

3. I work as a storekeeper and lift heavy boxes all day, Eat really well but my muscle mass does not seem to increase and there are women at work that seem to have bigger arms and wrists that I.

4. I didn't have any facial hair until I was 23, I heard the more you shave the faster and thicker it will grow so when I was 22 1/2 I started shaving at least once a week. (at that time I was hiding to myself that I was tg)

5. I only did 1 month of self induced HRT ( herbal supplements) which I realised the Side effects out way advantages so stopped and waiting till I can get to an Endo (which I am working on now) But the effects of them haven't gone away still skin softer and breasts haven't gone away. Never had a full flat chest. Almost now like man boobs. I kinda wonder if I was completely male if herbal supplements would have been as effective as results I had. (results might just be in my head I don't know?)   

6 I started working on upper breathing techniques and I realise I use my throat and chin muscles normally when breathing already. I have been called ma'am over the phone before when I am excited and don't give names or any reference that I am male. (without trying)

7. I can't believe I am putting this down but I think I may have micropenis it is 1" 1/2 soft still virgin and have little to no libido
I have had a few dates but never tried anything or had the urge to.

Maybe these are partly my imagination and maybe it is just hope so I can use to help come out to others. I think it might be easier to explain that I am intersex more than if I were transgender.

Please tell me what you think, Be honest I think I can take it

I think that people come in all shapes, sizes and variations. If the things that you said was any indication, then probably about at least 80% of the population would be intersexed. I have most of the discriptions you wrote. Unfortunately with the exception of the facial hair. If you are intersex, I don't really think it would be any easier. Coming out is coming out and when you do come out, you can't go back in. The only thing that makes it easier is when people already expect from you whatever it is your coming out to. Good luck.

 I don't think anyone could determine whether you are intersex from this.  To be honest, there is nothing there that would make me suspect you are.  It's possible though.  However, there is no reason to assume that's the case from what you posted.

It's okay.  There is nothing wrong with being trans.  I imagine both are just as difficult to come out as.  You'll do fine.

To really know anything you'll probably need to take your list to a physician knowledgeable in  the intersex area. BTW, the thing about beard hair growing faster and thicker with more frequent shaving is a myth. It won't make any difference if you shave daily.

Ok thanks everyone.

I think it was just my mind wanting it, because I think it would be easier to explain to people I was IS then it would to explain I was TG

Quote from: misschievous on June 11, 2013, 11:56:10 AM
Ok thanks everyone.

I think it was just my mind wanting it, because I think it would be easier to explain to people I was IS then it would to explain I was TG

really?? or do you have to explain both now?

Quote from: misschievous on June 11, 2013, 11:56:10 AM
Ok thanks everyone.

I think it was just my mind wanting it, because I think it would be easier to explain to people I was IS then it would to explain I was TG

I see your reasoning behind it. A medical condition would be far easier to explain. You may in fact be intersexed but you need to see a doctor and have tests to know for sure. Just embrace who you are, contrary to popular belief in society, its not a bad thing or something to be ashamed of.

Quote from: misschievous on June 11, 2013, 11:56:10 AM
Ok thanks everyone.

I think it was just my mind wanting it, because I think it would be easier to explain to people I was IS then it would to explain I was TG

Well, I suppose to those outside of immediate family or intimate partners, it wouldn't make a huge difference what you came out as.  In many peoples eyes they are similar and the transition effects aren't too different.  If that would make things easier for you, I don't see the harm in coming out as intersex.  However, please work on your self confidence about being trans.  There is nothing wrong with it, but it's difficult for us to feel comfortable with who we are because of societal pressure.  I came out to my sister today and I feel a mixture of relief and guilt for being the weirdo of the family.  I'm not really a weirdo, but internally I feel that way.  That's because I haven't learned to fully embrace my transgender side even if I accept that I am trans.  It's weird but full self acceptance is necessary in order to have a succesful transition.  I'm learning the hard way that I'm still not fully comfortable with being trans and that it's hurting my  progress.  In my opinion, that's really an important step for us all to take.  So hang in there and learn to love who you are.

Quote from: misschievous on June 11, 2013, 11:56:10 AM
Ok thanks everyone.

I think it was just my mind wanting it, because I think it would be easier to explain to people I was IS then it would to explain I was TG

I know I am not alone in this idea, but I believe some cases of ->-bleeped-<-, or transsexualism, may very well be a neurological intersex condition.

Those who study embryology know that the timing of "hormonal showers" in the developing fetus is quite important.  And if the timing is off, for instance in a person with a "46,xy" genotype, they may not become fully masculinized.

Take the case of individuals with CAIS.  They develop as if they were phenotypical women.

Another example is freemartinism, wherein an "xx" individual acquires male characteristics, in utero, from a fraternal male twin.

Here is a news article about the timing of fetal "hormonal showers":

Transgender Issues: Hormonal Show Misfirings

It sounds like low testosterone, for unknown reasons.  There was another post that said to be checked out by a knowledgeable physician. I tried physicians and tomorrow, I finally get the tests that will tell, after 15 months and many thousands of dollars, if I am intersexed or just have a severe medical condition. I am currently terrified...

I think I'd work on my parents first but I don't know how one would do that other than to possibly come out.  But be careful, you may not like what you find.  I didn't. Even when I got to the truth I couldn't nail down any sort of intersexed condition.

My parents are dead, my grandparents are dead and my extended family will not talk.  So, I tried:  The hospital where I was born, other medical records starting at birth, friends of my parents, neighbors from long ago, distant relatives, public records from the town where I was born.  I finally cracked the deafening silence and fear that people I would talk to had when I got to County, State and Federal Records.  I have two birth dates and two SS numbers.  Then, a search trough old family records found a hospital record with the second birth date.   Then, an old friend of the family cracked.  In short, most of my younger life was a lie.  Nothign about intersexed in the records and additonal work would require the help of a lawyer.
 
If you don't hurt, finding out about a genetic problem really doesn't help anyway.

P.S. Thanks for trying with xterra.

Hugs - Jennifer 

Family secrets are the worst - and so hurtful.

Quote from: Jamie D on June 11, 2013, 09:28:25 PM
I know I am not alone in this idea, but I believe some cases of ->-bleeped-<-, or transsexualism, may very well be a neurological intersex condition.

i do not see why someone would want to be IS. To be diagnosed with IS is like being told there is something physically wrong with you, like you are born with a hare lip or six fingers...
if we define transgender as the desire to live in the gender other than the one *assigned at birth*, i do not see how it can be a subset of IS. indeed, they are very distinct concepts. you can be IS and trans though..

Milktea, I use the term "intersex" in a much more expansive sense that it seems you do.

@jamie intersex is a loosely defined term and i guess you are referring to the general idea of sexuality and gender variance?? my idea of IS is more along the line of sexual development disorders, which is a very specific medical term somewhat akin to a physical birth defect. so yeah i think we're talking about different things

Thanks Everyone, This was something that I have been questioning for a while. Like I said before partly to explain to others, but besides that help explain to myself why I grew tall but never grew out like a male should.( there are a lot of tall women in my family. My oldest aunt on my dad's side is almost 6', and all of her daughters taller than her, one of her daughters is as tall as I am if not an inch taller. My oldest aunt on my mom's side is tall too around 6'. I always thought I had more compact muscles because I am a lot stronger than I look. Which the last few months doing some research on different healthy living websites they describe female muscles to be more compact and that a woman with the same build are usually stronger.

  It also would help me explain certain questions I have had all my life like, What complications could there have been that the small town hospital could not take care of that I had to be born in another city. And why would this be something that my mom and dad would think they had to keep it a secret from me? I think I would almost feel relieved to know that was why and not some serious life threatening problem that could cause major problems later on in life and I would have no idea about it.

I have came out to my parents last year, which I kind of stepped back in the closet sort of speak. A few weeks after I came out, the subject of why I was born in the other city was brought up again. I got nothing out of them except another change of subjects.

As soon as I start therapy I will let my therapist know my thoughts on it and hopefully he can pull my medical records, and put me into contact with a doctor that can do dna tests. If therapist prescribes it I hope my insurance (when I get it) will take care of it or at least a portion.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on June 12, 2013, 04:26:40 AM
I just don't like the assumption that IS, a bunch of real medical problems, are somehow "better" or more preferred than just TS, as a choice. Do we need to be helpless to feel valid? It's pretty obvious that not *everybody* transitions because of an innate need to be the other gender or even any real amount of sameness. Some people do just choose to live as the opposite sex, for completely personal reasons. Does the trans community long to be IS so that they could deny those people's right of expression? Even if they don't, that's what they're implying. That it's not their fault. That TS is somehow dirty, guilty, hard to explain, and the result is that any kind of IS support space has to work very hard to even include or support struggling IS people because it's flooded with trans people who, even if it feels like an innocent question to them, obviously reached sexual maturity asking "could I be intersex???" when it's very clearly not medically relevant in their life.

I mean look at the state of this subforum. 

I don't get it.

I sometimes feel people seek an IS answer because it's an easy out, at least compared to coming out as trans - or so it seems for some.

My interest in whether I was IS or not lasted just long enough for me to work out whether it could cause issues with HRT..

Quote from: Jamie D on June 11, 2013, 09:28:25 PM
I know I am not alone in this idea, but I believe some cases of ->-bleeped-<-, or transsexualism, may very well be a neurological intersex condition.

Those who study embryology know that the timing of "hormonal showers" in the developing fetus is quite important.  And if the timing is off, for instance in a person with a "46,xy" genotype, they may not become fully masculinized.

Take the case of individuals with CAIS.  They develop as if they were phenotypical women.

Another example is freemartinism, wherein an "xx" individual acquires male characteristics, in utero, from a fraternal male twin.

Here is a news article about the timing of fetal "hormonal showers":

Transgender Issues: Hormonal Show Misfirings

Your're right Jamie. You are not alone in that idea.

I think there are more of us than not. It's just that society has strict taboos on certain aspects of itself. Just on this forum alone there are varying degrees of ->-bleeped-<- from wearing undergaments of your psychological gender to full blown SRS. We all come together because our feelings are stronger but how many cisgender people have the same feelings but at less intense levels? How many cisgenders will admit to having those feelings and face the same problems we do with society? Just something to think about.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on June 12, 2013, 04:26:40 AM
I just don't like the assumption that IS, a bunch of real medical problems, are somehow "better" or more preferred than just TS, as a choice. Do we need to be helpless to feel valid? It's pretty obvious that not *everybody* transitions because of an innate need to be the other gender or even any real amount of sameness. Some people do just choose to live as the opposite sex, for completely personal reasons. Does the trans community long to be IS so that they could deny those people's right of expression? Even if they don't, that's what they're implying. That it's not their fault. That TS is somehow dirty, guilty, hard to explain, and the result is that any kind of IS support space has to work very hard to even include or support struggling IS people because it's flooded with trans people who, even if it feels like an innocent question to them, obviously reached sexual maturity asking "could I be intersex???" when it's very clearly not medically relevant in their life.

I mean look at the state of this subforum. 

I don't think it is a case of being "better" or "worse."  I see transgendered people looking for answers about why they are the way they are.

My experience with a career in the sciences tells me that physical, medical, and psychological phenomena, often occur along a continuum.  If that is case with transgendered or transsexual persons, then we should have a diverse community.

Quote from: Jamie D on June 12, 2013, 04:57:34 PM
I don't think it is a case of being "better" or "worse."  I see transgendered people looking for answers about why they are the way they are.

My experience with a career in the sciences tells me that physical, medical, and psychological phenomena, often occur along a continuum.  If that is case with transgendered or transsexual persons, then we should have a diverse community.

I feel that is the case with me. I think finding out whether or not I was IS would help explain a few things in my life.

And sorry G.Y.L.F. if I offended you in some way. This is just a question I have had for a while and I was just wanting some input but with your posts you seem upset with it, and for that I am sorry.

and what exactly does it explain? if you have a perfectly 'normal' penis or vagina you are not intersexed. if you desire to live in the gender opposite to what you were assigned you are trans. very clear concepts. now somehow you are motivated to be IS, by expanding the definitions or whatever, i suspect just to justify what you mentally desire?? now why would anyone need to justify how they feel?? and the biggest catch -- being IS doesn't really explain anything...your physical form doesn't necessarily need to conform to your gender or sexuality right..?
personally i find this lame...too often i see a trans who think she's IS, who think she's gay/bisexual, etc. i mean honestly do you need to be everything to be happy?