Hello all, and thank you for this forum,  lots of great information and posts here.

I, like many others here,  have finally admitted I have a much stronger feminine side than masculine.   However, I am very strongly attracted to women and honestly never see that changing. Yet at the same time, if given a choice I would much rather be a woman.  But given my body type  (very masculine and muscular, very manly voice, slight receding hairline, etc) I realize there is absolutely no way on earth I could ever even come close to passing as a female.  Despite all of that, i still feel a very strong desire to actually BE more female physically which I  know would eliminate some of my anxiety and mental torment I experience almost daily.  Although I love making love to my wife, I would absolutely throw it all away to live the rest of my life closer to my identity, ie with a vagina. I am fully aware that no doctor in the world can help me because I don't ever wish to transition fully,  and this only serves to add to my anxiety and mediocre depression/sadness  when realizing I will  be forever stuck with my genitalia. I have tried many times to just "get over it"  but obviously I'm here so that is no longer working too well for me  :-(

Anyway, I was just curious if there is anyone else out there with similar feelings who was able to overcome this living hell, being literally stuck with the opposite equipment with absolutely no way out..

PS. I could go on and on about wearing panties, maxi pads, and always being totally transfixed with vaginas, but I'm sure you've already heard it all so no need to rehash all of that.

I've considered the same thing.  How would that work?  Partial hrt?  I hope some one way cooler than me comes by and gives some input.

Hi and welcome to you both.

The spectrum of gender identity is enormous and there is no where on the spectrum that is right or wrong. No one is more or less valid than anyone else.

Partial transition is on of those interesting concepts because it would be a fine balance if HT was involved.

I went from erections to no erections within a week of starting E, of course for me it is a blessing and my T level is <1 which is fine. I'm totally hormonally reassigned and I would think that if for some reason I decided to stop HT I could never regain any male function.

Since you both wish to retain male function I suggest that going on HT would be a bad idea. It would be risky and the side effects that you may not want can happen quite quickly and largely unpredictability.

You may have difficulty in hiding breasts and feminisation of the brain, while wonderful, may not be your aim.

I suggest that partial transition would be more safely accomplished by developing your female thoughts and nature by crossdressing and basic feminisation of the body. Shaving of male body hair and maybe polish nails and have pierced ears etc.

All of which will make you feel more feminine but are easily hidden and will not impact on your male sex drive.

Cross dressing may be difficult with a female partner not knowing about your wishes and maybe playing or introducing sex orientated cross dressing games may be of interest.

Many woman can be put off by their partner 'suddenly' deciding to cross dress etc, but many are also accepting. Only you can answer that.

So I suggest a more physical transition rather than a hormone driven transition. But again you may wish to discuss this with a therapist as well.

One thing I do know is that these feelings never go away. So you do need to think about what you wish to do.

Oh and BTW, I tried very very hard to be a guy and failed totally. I don't try to be a woman, I am one, and I found it very easy to be me!!

Hugs

Cindy

I definately agree with Cindy and can identify with both of you. Practice female grooming habits, growing your hair long and two pierced ears are all something you can do and still somewhat hide in everyday life. I have long hair, two peirced ears, most of the time no beard but sometimes a short goatee. Most people. when I am in guy mode, see a redneck or 'long haired country boy" instead of transgendered. This is as hurtful as the opposite that occurs and the biggest reason why I am wholeheartedly against labels and judging books by the covers. As long as your partner, male or female is OK with it, it really isn't anyone else's business. As for hormnes, if you want the "tool" to work, better not go that route. If you want somewhat visible breasts, search some of the common herbal and food intake solutions and massaging and this should help. Just do a google search for "natural breast enhancement for men" and the search will yield countless ways to do it without prescription stength estrogen. It is dangerous to self medicate and chances are what you find over the counter won't help because it won't be prescription strength. There are foods that will up your natural estrogen levels (yes men do produce amounts of estrogen and women produce natural testosterone) and herbs that will help with breast growth naturally even if you are a man.

Cindy is right because the feelings never go away, if anything it will get worst the older you get, mine are. Address them now and really think about what you want and how far you want to go. Especially if you have a wife or significant other. It isn't fair for them if you are possibly living a lie and it definately isn't fair for you. Maybe you can throw some hints out there and let her figure it out and find a happy medium that both of you can live with. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. Just be prepared for whichever way it goes.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck and well wishes.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  That's funny you talked about doing certain feminizing  things, I actually just purchased a  home laser hair removal km system and plan on using it EXTENSIVELY.  The only problem I foresee is that  the more feminizing I do, the further I will want to go with it.  I can't see myself ever going on E,  simply because I enjoy my male body  and appearance overall,  it's just the plumbing I could really do without =\

Quote from: Matthieu on June 07, 2013, 04:41:20 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone.  That's funny you talked about doing certain feminizing  things, I actually just purchased a  home laser hair removal km system and plan on using it EXTENSIVELY.  The only problem I foresee is that  the more feminizing I do, the further I will want to go with it.  I can't see myself ever going on E,  simply because I enjoy my male body  and appearance overall,  it's just the plumbing I could really do without =\

It's certainly possible to have a partial transition.

In this paragraph, you state that you enjoy your male body and appearance.  If I may ask, besides the plumbing, what is it that you desire to alter?  There are things you can do to make yourself more androgynous and feminine, but that previous statement seems to contradict that desire.  I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from so that everyone may be able to assist you.   

While it's up to you whether to go on hormones, it sounds ike you would probably be much happier without it.  HRT can have some sexual side effects and may feminize your masculine appearance.  Judging from your posts, these are things you seem to want to avoid. 

 You make a great point learningtolive, which perfectly hilights my internal dichotomy..... knowing I should probably have been a female,  but being ok with my physical body for the most part, other than the plumbing. I think I'm very unusual in that respect,  so I can totally understand the confusion you and others probably have when listening to my feelings and desires etc.

I like being masculine,  yet at the same time would love to be more feminine in certain ways,  which I understand sounds very contradictory. I don't fully understand it myself,  which is why I'm here I guess.

Honestly I could  see myself happy with srs  on t  therapy going forward with my life and leaving all of this behind.  It would minimize collateral damage and maximize and reassure my physical and psychological identity whilst keeping my masculine appearance. I realize this is pretty crazy but it's the only way I can express how I feel. My feelings are extremely contradictory and confusing to me,  but at the same time very reassuring knowing that I'd be happy living life that way.  But at the end of the day,  this is not physically possible because of the WPATH standard, so  I'm pretty much stuck in this eternal conflict with absolutely no way out  :-(

Oh Hon!
Not understanding ourselves is how we live most of our lives! And if we struggle what hope do non-trans* people have?

Good therapists can help to let you guide into your thoughts and life. Therapists don't or shouldn't tell you anything, except form experience, but they do encourage and provide a framework to deal with your own issues.

Like many women here, I knew I was female as a child and had a hell of a time trying to understand why everyone thought I was a boy. It was clear to me but not to them.

Funnily when I started therapy, which in my part of the world is a prerequisite for HT, my psychiatrist later confided in me that he knew I was a trans*woman within the first 10 minutes of the first session. The other sessions were to help me deal with it and the changes I would be undergoing.

That said there are many people here from all the gender spectrum from trans* female to male, androgyny, people who have no desire to alter their gender identity and those who are SO of people trying to deal with the changes, as well as parents who are trying to help their children through these difficult times.

So never be in anyway worried about expressing where you are coming from.

The only thing to remember is every person here is as valid as any other.

One suggestion Mattheiu, I would forego the laser for hair removal. Sometimes that can be permanant. I would stick to shaving because you can go back and forth between genders and it only takes about two weeks for body hair to grow back. Like I said sometimes I have to go back and forth due to some circumstance or another. When I am in guy mode, I sometimes have a scruffy, short, ask me if I give a crap beard and sometime a short goatee. Lately though I am getting rid of the facial hair more and more. I hate the way the little hairs of the moustache tickles the corners of my nose. Or when I sweat it starts smelling like the synthertic facial hair on a halloween mask. Or at least to me it smells that way.

I myself have no really crippling gender dysphoria issues like many others have. I guess we are lucky in that aspect because I am indifferent and you seem to truly like and cherish your "thang". But I, like Cindy, knew that I was a girl at a very early age. I think when I found out that other girls didn't have little wee wees, I was truly shocked. I thought that something was wrong with me and I was deformed somehow. I am an only child so I had no comparisons, just my feelings. I eventuall come to accept that I have an outy instead of an inny.

But since you seem to embrace your male body and seem to truly appreciate it, I wouldn't do too much too permanant too fast. See how things and feelings and experiences go and how much makes you truly comfortable and feeling secure. You can always be bigender and go from one to the other interchangeably according to how you feel. Like I said, I can go back and forth, like I am doing now with male grooming rituals according to certain circumstances like needing to look like a greaseball at taimes or a scumbag or just a lazy, longhaired dude. The older I get the more disgusted I am with body hair, lack of pampering and unruly, I don't give a crap hair. It's starting to get really disgusting, nasty feeling, smelly(or at least I think so) and uncomfortable with all apsects of maleness. Eventually I will practice female groom techniques full time and leave the male techniques alone. I never used to be this way because I would go from one set of charactersitics to the other with a good heart. Now I'm longing for the female side and not feeling as comfortable as I used to with my male appearance. God, I hate getting older. 43 and I feel that I already have one foot in the grave and the other one a landmine.

Really there are many levels of being transgender. Where you fit in the spectrum, you can only answer. If you stay at that level, you can only say. I can just tell you my experience and that is the longing to be more and more female changes. It seems to me that the more time goes on that I am wanting to stay longer in female mode than in male mode. Sort of like my male aspects, appearance and habits are digusting me more and more and my desire to present female habits, appearance, and aspects are staying longer and becoming stronger. So be prepared for the same thing to happen eventually.

Quote from: Matthieu on June 08, 2013, 12:05:56 AM
You make a great point learningtolive, which perfectly hilights my internal dichotomy..... knowing I should probably have been a female,  but being ok with my physical body for the most part, other than the plumbing. I think I'm very unusual in that respect,  so I can totally understand the confusion you and others probably have when listening to my feelings and desires etc.

I like being masculine,  yet at the same time would love to be more feminine in certain ways,  which I understand sounds very contradictory. I don't fully understand it myself,  which is why I'm here I guess.

Honestly I could  see myself happy with srs  on t  therapy going forward with my life and leaving all of this behind.  It would minimize collateral damage and maximize and reassure my physical and psychological identity whilst keeping my masculine appearance. I realize this is pretty crazy but it's the only way I can express how I feel. My feelings are extremely contradictory and confusing to me,  but at the same time very reassuring knowing that I'd be happy living life that way.  But at the end of the day,  this is not physically possible because of the WPATH standard, so  I'm pretty much stuck in this eternal conflict with absolutely no way out  :-(

We all have different feelings and there is nothing wrong with that.  I just wanted to figure out how you felt so I could properly respond to your question.  I will say there are plenty of masculine women.  Masculinity and femininity have nothing to do with gender.  For example, there are plenty of fem guys out there who identify as men.

It seems like you would greatly benefit from speaking with a gender therapist.  They may be able to help sort out your feelings and help you identify the best course for you.

Jess42, I totally  identify with what you're saying in terms of feelings of wanting to be more feminine creeping up more often and remaining longer and longer each time.  Regarding the shaving/laser hair removal,  I've always wanted that for years,  even as a full blown male.  My wife used to refer to me as a  metro male,  so me completely removing my body hair would not come as a surprise to her whatsoever lol.  In fact she would definitely like it.  Me coming to bed with a vagina on the other hand might take some getting used to.

But overall it's very weird,  wanting to remain masculine outwardly,  yet actually be female. I seriously think I was born a butch lesbian or something in a male body. Why else would I be comfortable with a masculine body yet  feel female?? 

I feel your pain.  For years I went the bodybuilder route hoping that if I made my body a perfect male specimen that I would somehow feel better about being the male I am.  Instead, despite people telling me how good I looked I still felt disconnected and awful.  At 44 years old and 6'5" and 280lbs (10% body fat) and male pattern baldness it has been difficult to even have an honest conversation with myself about transitioning.  That being said, I've taken some steps.  1). I took all the mass off (now 210lbs) and can now see a more feminine me - it feels good and for the first time in years I'm starting to think I look good 2) I'm seeing a therapist 3) I've had open conversations with my wife about being transexual and about transitioning.  She would like for me to keep the penis.  I don't disagree.  While I too would've preferred to have been born with the other plumbing I'm not unhappy with the sexual gratification my penis provides as well as the satisfaction it provides to her.  Screwing with the plumbing also frightens me to death since as a control freak I don't think anybody ever properly does their job.  So, I'm with you.  Been thinking about asking more and learning more about low dosage HRT so that I can stabilize the exhaustive vast daily mental swings from the feminine me to the masculine me "suit" I put on that has to go out and slay dragons every day.

Quote from: Matthieu on June 09, 2013, 03:23:10 AM
Jess42, I totally  identify with what you're saying in terms of feelings of wanting to be more feminine creeping up more often and remaining longer and longer each time.  Regarding the shaving/laser hair removal,  I've always wanted that for years,  even as a full blown male.  My wife used to refer to me as a  metro male,  so me completely removing my body hair would not come as a surprise to her whatsoever lol.  In fact she would definitely like it.  Me coming to bed with a vagina on the other hand might take some getting used to.

But overall it's very weird,  wanting to remain masculine outwardly,  yet actually be female. I seriously think I was born a butch lesbian or something in a male body. Why else would I be comfortable with a masculine body yet  feel female??

Because Matthieu, just like snowflakes, no two people are the exact same. We all suffer different levels under the transgender umbrella. For some its good enough just to wear feminine underwear and for others it's full blown transitioning. I, probably like most everybody else, fall into the middle between masculine and feminine but about three quarters or more toward feminine. I am not necissarily attracted to males, but I do leave that option open though. I am attracted to females and really don't know what to call myself. I can't be a lesbian because I am genetically male and not homosexual because I'm not attracted to males. I don't think I could be called heterosexual because the inside female doesn't match the outside male. I used to think that if I were attracted to males it might make more sense but since I am not it added a lot of confusion to the mix. I pretty much gave up that line of thought and more or less just be who I am and if someone doesn't like it, well there's probably something about them that I don't like.

Mystery, how in the world did you take all that mass off when it was muscle and not fat? I have been trying to lose mass in my shoulders and arms which aren't ripped muscles and not fat either but just bigger than I would like. I have tried not using those muscles as much hoping that they would shrink but they don't. Any suggestions on how to keep body fat and lose muscle throughdiet will be appreciated.   

Jess,
To take off the muscle you've got to ditch the protein and ramp up the cardio.  I did an hour of intense interval cardio training every morning and a half hour every night.  The body thinks its starving and naturally fights you back by trying to turn everything else you eat into fat.  I've never been worried about adding the fat back - I can look at a salad and gain 15 lbs..  The challenge definitely was stripping the muscle off.  I still have a way to go - my shoulders are still pretty wide but way down from the size 60 jackets and XXL sweatshirts.   I bought a women's XL sweatshirt over the weekend - it fits and looks really cute on me.  I cannot even begin to tell you how good that feels!!!

Quote from: Mystery on June 11, 2013, 10:17:54 PM
Jess,
To take off the muscle you've got to ditch the protein and ramp up the cardio.  I did an hour of intense interval cardio training every morning and a half hour every night.  The body thinks its starving and naturally fights you back by trying to turn everything else you eat into fat.  I've never been worried about adding the fat back - I can look at a salad and gain 15 lbs..  The challenge definitely was stripping the muscle off.  I still have a way to go - my shoulders are still pretty wide but way down from the size 60 jackets and XXL sweatshirts.   I bought a women's XL sweatshirt over the weekend - it fits and looks really cute on me.  I cannot even begin to tell you how good that feels!!!

Thanks Mystery. I can look at food and gain weight too. I have lost quite a few pounds and have specifically cut back on the protein but that hasn't helped too much. As for the cardio, I don't really work out much but there are things that I do that get the heart beating quicker and causes me to break out in a sweat but it doesn't seem to work much. I think I may start measuring once a week to see if I am losing mass. If I step on the scales everyday, it is dissapointing but if I step on them once a week and I see five or six pounds gone, that's engouraging.

Talking about food and gaining weight. No matter how active I am, I have to limit my intake to around 1600 to 1800 calories a day. To lose weight I have to limit it to 900 to 1100 calories a day. If I eat like everyone else I will blow up as fast as a balloon. I can smell a cheesburger and gain ten pounds. It sucks cause I like food and I know people that can eat 6000 calories a day and stay looking like a skeleton. I guess the upside is that during and after an apocolypse the skinny people will starve to death and we'll still be fat and alive.

Quote from: Mystery on June 10, 2013, 10:30:56 PMI've had open conversations with my wife about being transexual and about transitioning.  She would like for me to keep the penis.  I don't disagree.  While I too would've preferred to have been born with the other plumbing I'm not unhappy with the sexual gratification my penis provides as well as the satisfaction it provides to her.

Uh, you sound a lot like me but a little further down the road. I'd love to fully - like, fully - transition, but I really need to figure out how my spouse feels.  (That's a long way off - still trying to feel how I feel, and therapy is my first port of call.)  But right now, I don't really care too much about the physical-sexual side.  To me, what I'm seeking is outward recognition and treatment as a female.  There's a whole world that sees my face and body and treats me according to my outward gender for sixteen hours a day (which is sixteen hours of torture right now), and there's just one person who sees what's between my legs for, er, half an hour once in a while (which I can probably handle, although there's obviously more to spousal intimacy than that.)  The plumbing part of the process is bottom of my list.  I would absolutely have preferred to have been born with the correct parts, but for me this whole process isn't about sex - it's about mentally feeling like I'm being treated like I feel by everyone who sees me, and being able to feel comfortable acting according to my gender presentation.

To me, a female appearance is far more important than female genitals, although both would be perfect.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 11, 2013, 08:15:14 AM
Because Matthieu, just like snowflakes, no two people are the exact same. We all suffer different levels under the transgender umbrella. For some its good enough just to wear feminine underwear and for others it's full blown transitioning. I, probably like most everybody else, fall into the middle between masculine and feminine but about three quarters or more toward feminine. I am not necissarily attracted to males, but I do leave that option open though. I am attracted to females and really don't know what to call myself. I can't be a lesbian because I am genetically male and not homosexual because I'm not attracted to males. I don't think I could be called heterosexual because the inside female doesn't match the outside male. I used to think that if I were attracted to males it might make more sense but since I am not it added a lot of confusion to the mix. I pretty much gave up that line of thought and more or less just be who I am and if someone doesn't like it, well there's probably something about them that I don't like.

I think we share many of the same conflictions and confusion in  regards to our inner gender identity  because of our sexual affiliation. And I think I need to clarify having srs would be 110%  psychological and have absolutely nothing to do with sex, etc. I think for me personally,  having srs  would give me a solid level of comfort knowing that I really am a female despite my masculine/male outward appearance.  It would be some sort of personal anchor and would definitely help me cope with living the rest of my life in this body,  if that makes any sense at all.

Quote from: Matthieu on June 12, 2013, 11:58:57 PM
I think we share many of the same conflictions and confusion in  regards to our inner gender identity  because of our sexual affiliation. And I think I need to clarify having srs would be 110%  psychological and have absolutely nothing to do with sex, etc. I think for me personally,  having srs  would give me a solid level of comfort knowing that I really am a female despite my masculine/male outward appearance.  It would be some sort of personal anchor and would definitely help me cope with living the rest of my life in this body,  if that makes any sense at all.

Have you considered perhaps changing your name? or documents? I remember watching a clip from the L word and one of the characters was a man who identified as a male lesbian, Jennifer (i think) was quite comfortable with being seen as a guy but known as a woman.
It may bring you a great deal of comfort if your wife and family called you by a female name that you had chosen for yourself, and if letters etc that came through the door said Miss/Mrs instead of Mr?

Or is it that the fact that very few people presumably would see your vagina, and the fact that it isn't visible to most people and reserved for yourself and intimacy with partners which appeals to you?

I guess it all comes down to what you consider makes a woman, a woman. Are you comfortable with your trachea?

Quote from: Matthieu on June 09, 2013, 03:23:10 AM
But overall it's very weird,  wanting to remain masculine outwardly,  yet actually be female. I seriously think I was born a butch lesbian or something in a male body. Why else would I be comfortable with a masculine body yet  feel female?? 

that's not weird at all. it's possible to be anything between male, female, neither, both, and other (or maybe lots more). and of course, fluid. gender can change, over a few years, or in the blink of an eye. it's fairly easy for people who know they're a man or a woman, be they cis or trans. i still have no idea what gender i really am, the only things i know for sure are that i do miss having a penis, and i'd probably miss my breasts once in a while if i decided to get rid of them. my voice is also a tad bit too high. but other than that, i'm not too much of a man or woman except for the times when i strongly identify with either or both.

Quote from: Matthieu on June 12, 2013, 11:58:57 PM
I think we share many of the same conflictions and confusion in  regards to our inner gender identity  because of our sexual affiliation. And I think I need to clarify having srs would be 110%  psychological and have absolutely nothing to do with sex, etc. I think for me personally,  having srs  would give me a solid level of comfort knowing that I really am a female despite my masculine/male outward appearance.  It would be some sort of personal anchor and would definitely help me cope with living the rest of my life in this body,  if that makes any sense at all.

that makes sense. having a penis (in addition to what i already have) would be a confirmation of who i am, to others just as much as myself. would be useful in a sexual situation, is what i some times imagine, but i'm not too sure i'm right about that. as a pansexual person the only relation i can see gender having to sex, is being seen as my own gender by my partner. the rest can be worked out easily if just that part is right.

We do share quite a bit under the transgender umbrella. Like I said, I don't even really know what to call myself in the way of sexual preference. I am attracted to femininity. I never used find masculinity attractive but even that seems to be dynamic in that I am finding more and more males attractive. Could be that these feelings have been surpressed long enough and it is finally being Psychologically aknowledged, sort of like a mental dam busting. I have always apreciated good looks and nice body structure, male or female, but have never found guys really attractive until about 10 years ago. I still don't find guys as attractive as females but they are getting closer to the same levels of attractiveness for me. This leads to more confusion but never any unsurity of femininity though. That is the one thing that has remained constant and steady throughout my life. It has really never changed, just my comfort levels of accepting it, embracing it and subtle changes in appearance and actions.

No, it doesn't really make sense to me with with you and SRS but remaining masculine . It just needs to make sense to you and what you're comfortable with. With me it's not so much about the genetalia even though I wish to have been born female. Not so much about hormones because I really sometimes think my T levels are fairly low for a genetic male and this don't make me unhappy especially when it comes to bodyhair and the hair on my head. My T levels could also be low because I have never been a very strong libido even though my "male character" comes across as a dog. With me it's more about experiencing and expressing femininity either on large scales or smaller scales, using feminine thoughts and decisions in everyday life, experiencing feminine emotions, I love to watch sad movies and have a cry. I appreciate more delicate and sensual clothing, not in a sexually gratifying way though and I love the way my legs look in highheels. It's also dynamic though. I used to go for a while as more feminine and then go back to masculine. This used to be split in 50% of the time masculine and 50% feminine and has been pretty prevailant throughout my life. Now, actually it started about 15 to 20 years ago, it has moved to 20% of the time in masculine and 80% feminine. Clothing is not really a factor as much as thoughts, hygene and emotions. I am growing more and more uncomfortable being in the masculine and it's starting to just not feel quite right. Maybe when I'm 50 it'll be time for HRT and when I'm 70, SRS.

I guess it could go either way though because you hear about detransitioning. With me though, I don't think it would go that way. I have been expecting it to back off a little but it hasn't yet and is steadily inching toward the feminine more and more. I expect it will keep going that way.