My innate teenage sarcasm is flowing right now because I'm annoyed, as indicated by the title.

While we were working out a larger argument,  I casually mentioned to my stepmom that I used the men's room at school and she yells "INAPPROPRIATE! " In my opinion, now that I present and pass as male 93% of the time, it's weirdef for me to use the girl's lavatory.
Am I overreacting about using a toilet ?

"Stepmoms" are EVIL as long as the guys don't mind who cares?

I would definitely still sit-down privately ( you'd prolly be amazed at how many guys like to peek )!!!

I can see the HEADLINES now - "" Seven arrested in Public Criminal Conspiracy ""

Really the way I see it is that however you are presenting yourself, you should be able to use the appropriate facilities. I really think that people blow the whole bathroom deal out of proportion. When it comes to the excuses, the main one being from an inapproriate sexual perspective, believe me the last thing that turns me on is the idea of what the bathroom is used for.

my stepdad used to say the same thing about me using the "male" changing rooms, it infuriated me.

shrug it off, you aren't overreacting, if you pass as male it would be worse for you to use the girls room, unless you like being screamed at by girls lol.

Quote from: Kiera on June 16, 2013, 05:07:35 AM
"Stepmoms" are EVIL as long as the guys don't mind who cares?

I would definitely still sit-down privately ( you'd prolly be amazed at how many guys like to peek )!!!

I can see the HEADLINES now - "" Seven arrested in Public Criminal Conspiracy ""

Haha, yeah i can second that! Toilets at work have ridiculously narrowly spaced urinals, to the point were it becomes cramped if you stood side by side. I always assumed that there is an unspoken rule that when they are that close together and with no divider, that you don't use them if one is already being used. Having said that, i've had a few surprises were guys would use them next to me and you can't help but feeling that your being watched... even if inadvertently. And then there is the awkward moment when it takes ages to pee because of the fright lol.

I've also had to think about which washroom to use recently. I actually had one guy give this bizarre triple take and checking the sign on the door as i passed him leaving the men's toilet at the British Museum. I found it hilarious and exhilirating at first, but i am getting quite concerned as i was wearing men's clothing and i feel if i went into the ladies i would get the same reaction.

Quote from: Bardoux on June 17, 2013, 06:12:59 AM
Haha, yeah i can second that! Toilets at work have ridiculously narrowly spaced urinals, to the point were it becomes cramped if you stood side by side. I always assumed that there is an unspoken rule that when they are that close together and with no divider, that you don't use them if one is already being used. Having said that, i've had a few surprises were guys would use them next to me and you can't help but feeling that your being watched... even if inadvertently. And then there is the awkward moment when it takes ages to pee because of the fright lol.

Trust me, I am male assigned at birth and I could not pee in the urinal if somebody was standing next to me either. By the way I always hated urinals as such, but sometimes You just have no choice, its like now or its gonna be late and then You just try to do it with a guy standing next to You and it is like "dafuq?"

Quote from: Sammy on June 17, 2013, 06:33:20 AM
Trust me, I am male assigned at birth and I could not pee in the urinal if somebody was standing next to me either. By the way I always hated urinals as such, but sometimes You just have no choice, its like now or its gonna be late and then You just try to do it with a guy standing next to You and it is like "dafuq?"

What are you talking about now or it's going to be too late, ever been to a concert as female? stand in line with 500 other womyn while you watch the men just walk in and walk out! whole arrangement made us  mad (of course I have have passing privilege so they are complaining with me like crazy) there should be a lot more stall for womyn, but instead they make these huge troughs for men. 

Quote from: Miss Bungle on June 16, 2013, 01:02:11 PM
Indeed. Plus, I have discovered in the last few years, it matters not which gendered restroom you happen to be in, they both REEK beyond belief.

REEK you say Miss Bungle. I have been in ones that have made me litterally sick at my stomach. I have seen feces wiped on stall walls. Really, what human does that? What did they smear it on the walls with? That bothers me more than the stench.

Quote from: Miss Bungle on June 17, 2013, 12:54:26 PM
I went to Wal Mart one day and BOTH of the friggin womens restrooms were closed due to this! The main womens room in the front AND the family restroom in the back. Who does that??!!!

Sheesh!!

I had to beg the cleaning crew to let me into one of the family stalls because my bladder was about to burst.

People are so friggin disgusting.

You know, I've sort of come to expect stuff like that in men's rooms but women's. All I got's to say is, Who's more ladylike now? Sarcastically said of course to all of those that believe in guarding the restrooms.

I have an even bigger problem. If I go into the female bathroom, 'born' females don't like it. Someone went and told the manager, so now I can't go in!

I can't go in the men's bathroom as there are some men who see me as female (and don't know I am changing my gender) and some that do know, but don't like what I am doing.

When I have changed I can go in the female bathroom (our manager has said)... But say I have not had the OP at that point?

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on June 17, 2013, 04:47:10 PM
I have an even bigger problem. If I go into the female bathroom, 'born' females don't like it. Someone went and told the manager, so now I can't go in!

I can't go in the men's bathroom as there are some men who see me as female (and don't know I am changing my gender) and some that do know, but don't like what I am doing.

When I have changed I can go in the female bathroom (our manager has said)... But say I have not had the OP at that point?

Where exactly do they want you to go? Maybe on their floor?

Well I could use the disabled toilet, but thats in view of everyone in the main room, so can't go in there. I end up having to go home. My house may only be five mins away, but to me that's not the point!!

If I am out anywhere else, I always use the female bathroom.

Is this where you work? If so I bet bathroom breaks are kinda' limited. I would rather use a private bathroom personally. I hate doing my business in front of others. Will people say something if you use the disabled bathroom?

Step moms are not evil. They have the same chances of being evil as everyone else. Some of them are lovely.

Use the bathroom you want, but expect some crap from some people. Ho hum. Sux but hey. That's what we got.
x

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on June 17, 2013, 05:13:32 PM
Well I could use the disabled toilet, but thats in view of everyone in the main room, so can't go in there. I end up having to go home. My house may only be five mins away, but to me that's not the point!!

If I am out anywhere else, I always use the female bathroom.

Isn't there some sort of law against blocking access to both toilets? Kinda like people who are handicapped and there are no wheelchair accesible bathrooms available?

Anyhow this kind of stuff sickens me. Maybe I am lucky because I haven't run into it yet though a friend of mine was blocked from using the women's restroom in a bar in Dallas. Dallas happens to have a anti-discrimination law and that bar got in trouble with the city lawyer over the incident. They could have been fined or sued but all she asked for was an apology and them to train their staff on trans issues.

Alyssa

Quote from: Miss Bungle on June 17, 2013, 07:32:30 PM
I've known a few women that worked janitorial jobs and they all have told me that the women's restrooms are far more disgusting than the men's restrooms could ever be.

I think that a large segment of the population are just revolting pigs, to be brutally honest. Not that I am a "clean freak" but some people are just sickening.

In the words of the immortal Lynyrd Skynyrd, "you sure got that right." Though I am somewhat of a clean freak when it comes to hygiene ( I even carry Lysol with me into them ) and public restrooms just disgust me even without feces smeared on the walls. Especially the ones with stalls. If no choice is available, I try to find one that's between two empty ones. It's funny though and hardly ever fails. I' ll be the only one in the restroom and there will be a line of empty stalls and then someone comes in and takes a stall right next to me and I am forced to hear every grunt and other sound, every scent and the very worst of all sometimes singing or humming or whistling. Maybe I'm just mental though.

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on June 17, 2013, 04:47:10 PM
I have an even bigger problem. If I go into the female bathroom, 'born' females don't like it. Someone went and told the manager, so now I can't go in!

I can't go in the men's bathroom as there are some men who see me as female (and don't know I am changing my gender) and some that do know, but don't like what I am doing.

When I have changed I can go in the female bathroom (our manager has said)... But say I have not had the OP at that point?

You will have to forgive that assumption that you are in the uk. But you need to tell your employer to check the equality act. The rules on this are effectively present in gender. meaning that if you dress female and you say you are female you use the female bathroom. I understand that some may be uncomfortable with this but its the law and if your boss is preventing you from using the bathroom of your choosen gender he is breaking it.

Quote from: Shannon1979 on June 19, 2013, 07:19:37 AM
You will have to forgive that assumption that you are in the uk. But you need to tell your employer to check the equality act. The rules on this are effectively present in gender. meaning that if you dress female and you say you are female you use the female bathroom. I understand that some may be uncomfortable with this but its the law and if your boss is preventing you from using the bathroom of your choosen gender he is breaking it.

With respect, Shannon, I'm afraid it's not quite that simple. I was pretty disappointed myself to learn the Equality Act doesn't cover toilet usage and it is still very much up to business owners to decide who may or may not use gendered facilities such as toilets and changing rooms. The only thing that gives us lawful entitlement to such facilities is a GRC.

So essentially, trans* people have the right to request the use of single-sex facilities according to the gender in which we present, but business owners must take the needs of all facility users into account. If a pre-GRC trans woman wants to use the ladies', the owner must reasonably consider this request; but if another user complains about this the owner must consider their perspective too, and try to reach a balanced decision that is in the best interests of everyone. So, the point at which you should be able to use the correct loos depends on the circumstances of each individual case and it is up to the owner of the business, at least until you get a GRC. The whole situation really sucks, because it gives other people the power to decide which toilet they think you should use.

What they must do, however, is provide toilet facilities for all their staff.

Here is the case that established where we currently stand on this issue: http://www.workplacelaw.net/services/news/3885/managing-gender-re-assignment-at-work-croft-v-royal-mail-group-plc

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on June 17, 2013, 05:13:32 PM
Well I could use the disabled toilet, but thats in view of everyone in the main room, so can't go in there. I end up having to go home.

I'm afraid, as horrible as this sounds, that you might not have a leg to stand on with your boss because they've provided you with some toilet facilities, even if you don't want to use them. IANAL, but your best bet is to challenge your boss to prove they're making a reasonable, non-discriminatory decision based on the interests of all of their staff, including you. They're not allowed to make a knee-jerk decision to prevent you from using the ladies' because one person complained; they have to prove that they've given reasonable consideration to the whole picture and are not discriminating against anyone, but especially you.

You could always tell them that forcing you to use the Disabled loos leaves you feeling harassed, singled out, or otherwise discriminated against and is actually preventing you from using the loos at all. Or ask when they think you'll be able to move over to the ladies (e.g. perhaps when you get your 'carry letter' from a GIC?).

However, you don't need to have had the op to start using the loos; you just need to come to an agreement with your boss. Really, your boss should be handling this much better.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on June 19, 2013, 11:01:36 AM
What they must do, however, is provide toilet facilities for all their staff.

Fair enough but they must provide toilet facilities no less comodius or suitable than facilities for others. And from what Bethany said the disabled toilets are unsuitable. therefore if that is the case the employer really only has two choices, being that making her use the male facilities is not appropriate. Either 1. explain to the other female members of staff that Bethany has always identified as a woman. and although it may take time to get used to this, never the less they must (obviously not as bluntly as i have just put it. Would need to be done in a gentle way). Or option 2. build another toilet block. I cant see option two happening. Of course my argument hinges on the disabled toilet being unsuitable, if it does turn out to be suitable my argument is shot too pieces.

Of course i'm just going through the same thing at work myself. except we don't have disabled toilet facilities (probably should have). so in effect they don't really have much choice but to allow me to use the ladies.

I have used "disabled" or "family" bathrooms. I don't think there is any law. You'd be hard pressed to say that someone was "blocking" access to a bathroom when you are staying in there, what 5 minutes max. Also mostly use the men's room, though I can't say it is totally comfortable yet. Haven't been to bars-- but tbh they aren't so much worse than women's rooms so far. I pass maybe 10% of the time, and won't go in anywhere where I feel uncomfortable. But here's the thing, I don't think men really care. Women do. I have heard more people having trouble going into women's rooms because women feel that men going into their bathrooms will hurt them. The other thing is that men don't really pay attention.

I went to Philly Trans health. During the whole conference both bathrooms were marked "Gender Neutral", so both men and women went into them. NOTHING at all happened. I don't know how many years they have been going on.


--Jay