Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 07:09:46 AM
Hi Berliegh,

Got your message, its true for me, holland and Barrett, black cohash and fenugreek, one each three times a day they are phytoestrogen's I think that's the word. Of course I may be androgynous or low testosterone I don't know, everyone is different and no one else I have spoken to have had results like that so there must be something else genetic going on I think.

Hugs and Kisses

Nigella

I honestly tried that stuff years ago in the early 1990's and it had no effect on me at all......the dosage of oestrogen if there is any would be very small....I also had an extreamely low testo reading before I took hormones....

Mybe you have strong willpower and belief.....maybe I'm too cynical...lol

First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

Is it best to be on either hormones or estrogen for a while before having implants done?

Two years ago I had started taking menapuase tablets, which has a very lose dose of estrogen in it, and just the other day when I was leaning over a counter, my friend asked me about my cleavage and if I used tape. I told her that it was just me.

Jodieblonde, I thought that your post was interesting. So just by taking a dose of estrogen for a certain amount of time, your breatss grew and without a T-blocker. That was one thing that I was worried about when I was taking the menapause tablets. Without a t-blocker I figured that they would work slower. Glad to hear that you got rid of the migraines.

Hey Robin, looks like everything has been going well for you. Perhaps if I were to have an orchi done, I could eliminate my testosterone problem.

Gina 

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 07:09:46 AM
Hi Berliegh,

Got your message, its true for me, holland and Barrett, black cohash and fenugreek, one each three times a day they are phytoestrogen's I think that's the word. Of course I may be androgynous or low testosterone I don't know, everyone is different and no one else I have spoken to have had results like that so there must be something else genetic going on I think.

Hugs and Kisses

Nigella

Actually, Black Cohash has been found to NOT be a phytoestrogen. It seems to have a blocking effect on the pain of PMS with some residual effect on the actual cramping and discomfort of menstrual pains associated with the contractions of the uterus at that time. Any effects that might happen are probably placebo in cause if one thinks they are consuming a plant estrogen.

A very good neighbor who is a pharmacist says there might be a drug interaction with other chemicals and herbs that although unlisted, are at best coincidental and non-reproduceable in laboratory tests.

OK...Fenugreek IS a phytoestrogen, and in use WITH Black Cohash, MIGHT have some (in your case) desirable effects, although you'd have to be very receptive to such minor ingestions of a very weak plant hormone.

Think of it this way: If you take aspirin for a headache, as good as aspirin is for such things, and you back the aspirin with a good strong cup of coffee, then you'd get a much more powerful headache control duality going here. Actually, aspirin and caffeine were the drug-of-the-day in the US Navy for hangovers..they called it an APC, or Excedrin-like with a lot more kidney and liver distress. It has been removed from the Navy medical lockers for many years for that reason.

There is another person I know who uses a different combination of phytoestrogens for their maintenance regime.  Saw Palmetto has T-blocking capacities, but in overdose is odd in that is causes diarrhea and very green stools..spinach-colored! (Sorry for the mental graphic) Adding something like this as is normally used for a PMS-easer may create some hormonal changes, but the doses would have to be very high, and the cost of herbals for the effect they achieve is just not really worth the expense.

There are some who will differ with this evaluation, but if they say they get results from these poultices and appellatives, then they are in a decided minority. That's the beauty of medicine...it is not an exact science and is still called a "practice" until they get it right!

Personally, I got very good...no..make that surprising results from the small regimen I had taken, and all the time my T-levels were normal for a natal male..I fathered five children and had a great libido too. I still have a decent T-level...and at my age, it's normal for my age, for the age I am, that is.

You've gotta remember that I wasn't trying to grow breasts..this was a treatment for migraines..just that I got some really nice 38C side-effects. I'll make another exciting post about my adventures in life as a child in skirts and slacks....wondering if I should move to a different area for those posts as they aren't so much an introduction any more..but a continuing story?

I also have some interesting photos that were hidden for a long long time from me, my sister having recently dribbled a few of them my way after she scans and e-mails them to me in ones and twos.

As to the "full-timers" verses "part-timers", I guess I am a full-timer at what lifestyle I live. I don't x-dress, but I do wear breast supports (read: bras and bikini tops) for the size to which I have grown produces a lot of pain at the end of the day if I don't harness them.

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 28, 2007, 09:31:13 AM
First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

Is it best to be on either hormones or estrogen for a while before having implants done?

I've been full-time since 2002.  Yes, you want to be sure they have finished growing before getting implants.

I have always had some breast development, enough to fit within the medical criteria for gynocomastia.  I also spent a couple of years taking herbal suppliments and got modest results.  With HRT, I have gotten excellent results.  The main difference between herbals and HRT, other than quantity, is that herbals only deposit fat, not build breast structure.

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 28, 2007, 11:27:40 AM

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 28, 2007, 09:31:13 AM
First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

Is it best to be on either hormones or estrogen for a while before having implants done?

I've been full-time since 2002.  Yes, you want to be sure they have finished growing before getting implants.

I have always had some breast development, enough to fit within the medical criteria for gynocomastia.  I also spent a couple of years taking herbal suppliments and got modest results.  With HRT, I have gotten excellent results.  The main difference between herbals and HRT, other than quantity, is that herbals only deposit fat, not build breast structure.

me too been on hormones since before 2002 and my breasts are not even an A cup! Implants are my only hope....

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 28, 2007, 09:31:13 AM
First off, I'd like to know how many that posted here are living full time and those that are not are you having any problems conceling the fact that you have developing breasts.

I'm only at a 36A now after 10 months HRT, but a few coworkers started noticing things at around 3-5 months anyway. I didn't bind (I feared the outline would be noticed), I just wore baggy shirts. But I'm kinda thin, so any fat up there was just too obvious and out of place. And the crazy nipples went erect within a week and stayed that way... which was more difficult to hide than the actual growth.

~Kate~

Quote from: JodieBlonde on June 28, 2007, 11:25:48 AM

Quote from: Nigella on June 27, 2007, 07:09:46 AM

As to the "full-timers" verses "part-timers", I guess I am a full-timer at what lifestyle I live. I don't x-dress, but I do wear breast supports (read: bras and bikini tops) for the size to which I have grown produces a lot of pain at the end of the day if I don't harness them.

Hi Berliegh, thank you for answering my question. So technically you don't x-dress as a woman but do live full time for whatever lifetsyle you've choosen. The reason I ask, is like I asked in my opening post is how many have breast development and are still living their lives as male. Do poeple look at you strangely because they see the breast development? As for me, when I start showing breast development, that is when I'd start living full time. My x-girlfriend wore a 36 C size bra, and I had notivced that when she removed her bra, her breasts did hang a bit, so I can understand the need to harness your breasts to avoid further pain. I guess everyone develops at a different stage more say due to our bodies. My mom and sisters all wear a 38 B size bra, so I figure that if anything I should be there as well.


Thanks Lisbeth for the advice on letting my breasts develop before getting implants. In the five years yours has been developing  pretty steadily.

That's interesting Kate. it kind of goes back to my previous question. Glad to hear that your co-workers aren't hasselling you.

Gina 

Quote from: gina_taylor on June 30, 2007, 06:30:45 AM
Hi Berliegh, thank you for answering my question. So technically you don't x-dress as a woman but do live full time for whatever lifetsyle you've choosen. The reason I ask, is like I asked in my opening post is how many have breast development and are still living their lives as male. Do poeple look at you strangely because they see the breast development? As for me, when I start showing breast development, that is when I'd start living full time. My x-girlfriend wore a 36 C size bra, and I had notivced that when she removed her bra, her breasts did hang a bit, so I can understand the need to harness your breasts to avoid further pain. I guess everyone develops at a different stage more say due to our bodies. My mom and sisters all wear a 38 B size bra, so I figure that if anything I should be there as well.


Thanks Lisbeth for the advice on letting my breasts develop before getting implants. In the five years yours has been developing  pretty steadily.

That's interesting Kate. it kind of goes back to my previous question. Glad to hear that your co-workers aren't hasselling you.

Gina  :icon_dance

Gina, I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I am a long term full time female. I have never lived as a male and don't ever intend to either......no one has ever looked at me strangely but I do wish I had much bigger boobs. I have been hormones for 7 years and still only an A cup. I have a boob job lined up which should give me more confidence..

Quote from: Berliegh on June 28, 2007, 12:08:43 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 28, 2007, 11:27:40 AM
I've been full-time since 2002.  Yes, you want to be sure they have finished growing before getting implants.

I have always had some breast development, enough to fit within the medical criteria for gynocomastia.  I also spent a couple of years taking herbal suppliments and got modest results.  With HRT, I have gotten excellent results.  The main difference between herbals and HRT, other than quantity, is that herbals only deposit fat, not build breast structure.

me too been on hormones since before 2002 and my breasts are not even an A cup! Implants are my only hope....

Our stories aren't quite the same.  I've been full-time since 2002, but only on HRT for 2 years.  I happily fill my B cups.

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 01, 2007, 07:56:59 PM
Our stories aren't quite the same.  I've been full-time since 2002, but only on HRT for 2 years.  I happily fill my B cups.

No not the same, you have been lucky with your breast growth mine hasn't developed much in the 7 years of hormones and anti - androgens which is quite distressing at times. I've tried just about everything in that time and I'm now looking at boob jobs..

Ooh, implants. The stuff of dreams. If only I could have a big bag of artificial stuff inside my chest... something that could seep out and infect me! God, ladies. Breasts are not everything. A vagina is not everything. What is? Being an individual!

Being an individual?

Like the emo kids? Or the goths right?

Because its sooooo easy to be unique.

Quote from: DeanO on July 02, 2007, 08:47:58 PM
Ooh, implants. The stuff of dreams. If only I could have a big bag of artificial stuff inside my chest... something that could seep out and infect me! God, ladies. Breasts are not everything. A vagina is not everything. What is? Being an individual!

That's a crass comment to make. I don't think anyone wants to have breast implants as a choice and I too don't feel happy about it. But when you are female (no matter if it's genetic or not) and flat chested it's not a lot of fun and can be embarrising. Dean O You don't come accross as a person suffering from gender dysphoria, so you opinions, understanding and feelings will not be the same as ours.

Quote from: Tink on May 27, 2007, 11:08:55 PM
Through the double S treatment!    Oh, by double S treatment, I mean:
SS = Silcone or Saline.  Yeah, some of us do not develop anything at all despite the massive dosages of hormones, so our only option is to get help from the breast fairy.
tink

I'm taking the Double "S" treatment too.  I'm going to be seeing the breast fairy soon.  Too bad she doesn't make house calls!

(Saline)-Sandy

Quote from: Berliegh on July 02, 2007, 03:05:45 AM

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 01, 2007, 07:56:59 PM
Our stories aren't quite the same.  I've been full-time since 2002, but only on HRT for 2 years.  I happily fill my B cups.

No not the same, you have been lucky with your breast growth mine hasn't developed much in the 7 years of hormones and anti - androgens which is quite distressing at times. I've tried just about everything in that time and I'm now looking at boob jobs..

I understand how you feel about it.  I still wish mine were bigger, but there is a certain satisfaction in having them just big enough that they don't cause people to notice.  They're big enough that people automaticly assume I'm female, but not so big that I get unwanted attention from males.  I don't feel any need for augmentation the way they are now, and they have at least 5 more years of growing ahead of them.

I keep feeling the temptation for implants... but would really prefer to skip it. I started HRT 1 year and 3 months ago, at the age of 46. I started with a very low dose for the first several months, but it has gradually been ramped up to my current level. I have nicely-shaped breasts, or rather they would look perfect on a midget woman's body. Enough to be obvious when I wear a tight knit shirt... but still not quite able to fill an A cup. Too back they have this huge ribcage as a backdrop.

For a year before HRT, I tried to maximize my phytoestrogen. I was living on soy foods for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert, every day. I was vegan at the time. I loaded up all my food with ground flaxseed, every day, and poured flaxseed oil over everything (known to painters as linseed oil--I smelled like an artist's studio). The herbs I loaded up on every day were Tang-Kuei (also called Dong Quai) and Red Clover.

Result: After one year I found hard little buds behind my nipples, about the size of baby peas or grape pips. Essentially nothing visible from the outside, though I tried to think that I was showing a hint of gynecomastia. However, my girlfriend had slipped me a couple of her E pills during that time, which may account for the miniscule growth I did get.

After I started HRT, I laid off the phytoestrogens, no more flax, no more veganism (I'm ovo-lacto vegetarian again), no more of those herbs, lest the weak estrogens block the good one. Nothing but HRT produced actual breast growth.

Given that black cohosh is not actually estrogenic, I would like to know what worked for you so well, Nigella. (Nigella is an herb too, used in traditional Middle Eastern medicine.)

Fenugreek, you might have something there--it has been used for centuries to stimulate milk production in nursing mothers. The Arabic name for fenugreek is hulbah, related to the word for milk, halib. Teaching myself herbalism, I once experimented with fenugreek for other reasons, but the stuff affects body odor so strongly I did not want to continue. Maybe it should be renamed fenu-REEK.

James A. Duke's herbalist book The Green Pharmacy has a chapter on herbs to promote breast enlargement. He recommends Red Clover, and said some wild clover has so much phytoestrogen it has been known to cause spontaneous abortions in pregnant cows who graze on it. Wow, that sounds like a lot of E for one plant. Duke endorses fenu-REEK too... he offered a formula he calls "Bustea" using mainly fenugreek sprouts, plus anise, basil, caraway, dill, fennel, licorice, marjoram, and lemongrass. He remarks: "Fennel contains phytoestrogens, plant chemicals similar to the female hormone estrogen. Folklore maintains that the other herbs in this tea can also help enlarge the breasts."

Other herbs Duke suggested for growing boobs are saw palmetto, wild yam, and cumin. He was skeptical, because wild yam doesn't have much phyto-E. He quoted another herbalist named Susun Weed who recommended it. Actually, I think the point was that wild yam contains some sort of progesterone, which Duke apparently wasn't aware of. You know there is now wild yam progesterone cream for breast growth.

I'd prefer not to get implants, but if my body image isn't substantially improve by the breast growth I do get they might be necessary.

I honestly think though that just having some kind of breasts, even "itty bitty titties" will make me feel a lot better.

I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts. I did a little lay study on this awhile back and decided it's not hard to be feminine and glamorous with so much as pimple on your chest. Pick up any high fashion magazine and flip through it. Very rarely do you see images where the model's breasts characterize their femininity. You see emphasis on hair, clothes, accessories, and so forth. In my experience, if you dress right, it breast size can be of little importance. Think about it, ladies. I wrote a little blog on this awhile back (see link).

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-06V_c4Q9YrRaJN3oQXVCRA--?cq=1

Quote from: Lyric on July 09, 2007, 09:44:39 AM
I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.