Alright. So I've been thinking about this a lot, mostly wondering if it possible. I intend to seek hormones and begin total transition as soon as I leave home in October for university. I'm going to be moving very far away and have no friends or relatives there and, like or not, I intend to go totally stealth.

This would all be fine and dandy if it weren't for the fact that I'm still going to be expected to phone my parents and let them know how things are, etc. And, of course, there will be infrequent visits.
  Coming out to them is not an option, judging by the mostly not-positive reactions they've given when confronted with trans people or the topic of transexualism. My mother once actually said to me that she'd not take it well if I said I wanted to be a boy. But I can't let this stop me and, if I'm honest, it would be much better for me if they knew nothing about all this. I have zero guilt in hiding it from them if I possibly can.

So I'm thinking - how obvious would it be to them that something was up? I have a pretty low voice already (I sang exclusively tenor for years in the male half of a professional choir), but obviously I'm anticipating that it will get deeper on T. I thought maybe if I were to speak often on the phone then the changes would seem gradual and go unnoticed rather than be sudden and massive and obvious.
  Obviously if I am lucky enough to get facial hair I would shave before meeting up with them, and maybe put on something very feminine to counteract whatever else T might do to my appearance.

Is this line of thinking feasible at all? Would it be possible for me to hide the fact that I'm on T for maybe four or five occasions a year, minimum? Or would it be better to try and meet up with them more often so the changes seem more gradual and there wouldn't be a shock?

I fully intend to go through with this whether I can hide it from them or not (don't misunderstand my point here and think I'm reluctant to commit to transition - there is nothing in this world I want more), but it would just be a hell of a lot easier for me if they didn't find out.

TL;DR: Is it possible to take T full time and still be able to (even if only marginally) pull off the whole girl thing in emergencies, with adequate time for preparation? Any input is appreciated.

judging by my results I'd say no. 

maybe... maybe... for the first 6 months to a year... HUGE emphasis on maybe.

Quote from: GnomeKid on June 21, 2013, 02:00:51 PM
judging by my results I'd say no. 

maybe... maybe... for the first 6 months to a year... HUGE emphasis on maybe.

^What he said.

I don't know what you look/sound like now but between 3 to 6 months on T your voice just doesn't get deeper. I've heard females with deep voices but it's more than that. It sounds distinctly male.

Then you're going to start passing in public enough where if you tried to put on female clothes just for your parents you're going to look like a guy in drag.

If you're certain they're not going to take it well my best advice to you is to be completely independent and prepared for them to cut you off financially. Have everything in place to where if that does happen it's not going to leave you on the streets. Also, make sure to consult with your College. Why? Depending on your Country, Colleges make you financially dependent on your parent's tax information to enroll and to get loans for living expenses (in the USA it's 23). Just cover all your bases.

I tried to do the same with my extended family at Christmas, I was 3 or 4 months on T maybe but I didn't need to speak to let them know I'm transitioning yet. I changed gradually but it's not just the voice. I got horrible acne and many other little changes what they put together. OTOH my neighbours and not really close friends call my be my birth name and doesn't say a thing but obviously they think something. Does your family know anything about you being trans? If not, maybe they think you just changed a bit but if they already know something they'll put it together.

Quote from: Simon on June 21, 2013, 02:35:42 PM
^What he said.

I don't know what you look/sound like now but between 3 to 6 months on T your voice just doesn't get deeper. I've heard females with deep voices but it's more than that. It sounds distinctly male.

Then you're going to start passing in public enough where if you tried to put on female clothes just for your parents you're going to look like a guy in drag.

Ah, okay. Well, at least, on the bright side, I'll be able to start passing with the people I meet at Uni, even if I won't be able unpass for my parents. I suppose I could just act normal when they visit and wait until they say something before I bring it up, might delay judgement day, at least.

I'm in England. I've several grants that will cover my living expenses, but I've no idea if they're dependent on my parents. I'll contact the college and ascertain that. Thank you. I guess I should get a job and start saving in case it all goes down the plughole!

Quote from: Jared on June 21, 2013, 04:05:37 PM
Does your family know anything about you being trans? If not, maybe they think you just changed a bit but if they already know something they'll put it together.

They know nothing, as far as I know. The only thing I've done is bought myself a ton of man-clothes in preperation for imminent transition. My mother's always tried to buy me girly stuff and I've had to start politely refusing to allow this - because she's wasting her money and I'm never going to wear them. Plus I don't have room to take all that with me if I'm not going to use it. She's seems a bit bemused, but I don't think she questions it too much. I hope she doesn't.

Have you already spoken to your GP about this?  If you haven't and are planning to transition on the NHS then it's unlikely that you will be able to start hormones before October.  Referrals to GICs can take a long time, particularly depending on where you live and which GIC you're going to get referred to, and most GICs prefer their patients to have at least 3 months of "real life experience" living as male, or at the very least 3 months of seeing them.  That would put you into September even without huge waiting lists.

I'm not sure if you're planning on going stealth at uni, or not, but just remember that it might not be possible.  But that does buy you some time in terms of your parents not finding out.  I would have thought that uni grants wouldn't be affected by our parents because generally we move out to go to uni, people who stay at their parents house while going to uni just get less of a housing allowance.  This is just what I think I remember though, I'm trying my best to avoid uni so I don't know too much.  I don't cope well with debt.

Quote from: AlexanderC on June 21, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
Have you already spoken to your GP about this?  If you haven't and are planning to transition on the NHS then it's unlikely that you will be able to start hormones before October.  Referrals to GICs can take a long time, particularly depending on where you live and which GIC you're going to get referred to, and most GICs prefer their patients to have at least 3 months of "real life experience" living as male, or at the very least 3 months of seeing them.  That would put you into September even without huge waiting lists.

I'm not sure if you're planning on going stealth at uni, or not, but just remember that it might not be possible.  But that does buy you some time in terms of your parents not finding out.  I would have thought that uni grants wouldn't be affected by our parents because generally we move out to go to uni, people who stay at their parents house while going to uni just get less of a housing allowance.  This is just what I think I remember though, I'm trying my best to avoid uni so I don't know too much.  I don't cope well with debt.

I was planning on talking to whatever GP I'll be seeing once I get to uni and going from there. I can't start T before October no matter what happens, as before then I'll still be at home and it is really not viable.

Although I'd like to get hormones as soon as I can get away from home, realistically it may be helpful to wait a month or two as my parents will probably still be paranoid about how I'm doing and find everything out. On the other hand, long wait for T = not good for stealth.  You must forgive me, I don't really understand how the system works and I'm still trying to figure all of this out.

The plan's flawed in that I can only start T after I get to uni, but I really don't know what to do. I can't go to my GP here, if my parents found out I'd made an appointment or, heavens forefend, found out about the whole affair I don't know what I'd do. This 'real life experience' thing - do you mean they want you to have lived openly trans for three months prior? That... makes a lot of problems. I didn't know about that.

Quote from: AlexanderC on June 21, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
Have you already spoken to your GP about this?  If you haven't and are planning to transition on the NHS then it's unlikely that you will be able to start hormones before October.  Referrals to GICs can take a long time, particularly depending on where you live and which GIC you're going to get referred to, and most GICs prefer their patients to have at least 3 months of "real life experience" living as male, or at the very least 3 months of seeing them.  That would put you into September even without huge waiting lists.

^ This. Your GP cannot and will not prescribe T for you without a recommendation from a GIC or similar. The NHS pathway is quite strict in that.

I did a thread recently about GICs in England: most of them will only accept referrals from your Community Mental Health Team, not your GP (although I've heard that Nottingham has started taking referrals direct from GPs). So the procedure in England is: you see your GP; who refers you to your CMHT; who refers you to a GIC; who applies for funding from your local NHS office before they'll see you. Each stage of this process can involve several months of waiting. Then you go for a minimum of three appointments at the GIC, which will be separated by at least a month or several months, before you get to see the GIC doctor who prescribes hormones.

Realistically, you're looking at at least a year before you can start T on the NHS. Some of us have been with GICs for a couple of years but are still not on hormones. It depends on the Clinic and the individual case.

Before you decide on a GIC, I urge you to ring them up & see what their waiting times are like for your first appointment, and then between subsequent appointments. Some GICs have waiting lists so long that people currently on them won't have their first appointment until sometime next year, after which their second appointment will be in 2015.

As for hiding the effects of T, Simon pretty much summed it up: you'll get to a stage where you won't be able to. And your family will be spending the rest of your life with you; you'll have to tell them at some stage, when you're ready.

Oh, and by the way... if you're 18 or over, your parents have no right to know about any medical treatment you have. And the 'real-life experience' is a requirement of the GIC, so if you're only going to start talking to your GP when you move out, you'll have several months before you get to see a GIC anyway so that's not an issue. Furthermore, some GICs will count the start of your Real-Life Experience as being the day you first see them, which is even further away.

This is a long, slow, drawn-out process on the NHS. Please don't expect it to move forwards quickly, nothing moves quickly in the NHS.

If you plan to go stealth at uni, I can't say that I think that'll work too well if you don't start transitioning until you get there, especially if you're not even set to start straight away.  A LOT of things happen when you go on T and it'll be weird.  If one wanted to be stealth I'd more likely suggest at least one year of T first, but even that could be pushing it as not all changes will be done.  While at uni you could get all the acne (far more likely during male puberty so even if you didn't get any during female puberty this isn't a good indicator), and your voice will break and lower as time goes.  I have a low voice already myself but it's still going to absolutely change.  Hair is going to change too, and on T your face could actually get puffier which will affect pass-ability for a while before it all settles down and then your face will thin out and you'll look different from when you started.  The subcutaneous fat under your skin that makes women feel softer, will go away and that'll define your face and physique more.  On T you could develop a more masculine physique which could also be obvious (if you work for it, but even without, you can look a little more defined when the skin thins out, especially if you're thin).  Your university ID will look different and depending on universities this can be the one ID you ever get so you'll look off in your ID.

I'd really think it through, because intending to go stealth prior to starting T is going to be very, very difficult.  People are going to notice changes for sure!

As for RLE, while it's not always necessary depending on where you are, I for one think it's very important.  It's a sign of commitment prior to changing anything on a level that can't be reversed.  For myself there was several years without actually being "out" so to speak, in that I didn't talk to any doctors or therapists until fairly recently, so I only officially have 6 months RLE but in reality, it's been almost 3 years (the time I escaped parents! lol)

Quote from: Lajs on June 21, 2013, 06:45:46 PM
I was planning on talking to whatever GP I'll be seeing once I get to uni and going from there. I can't start T before October no matter what happens, as before then I'll still be at home and it is really not viable.

Although I'd like to get hormones as soon as I can get away from home, realistically it may be helpful to wait a month or two as my parents will probably still be paranoid about how I'm doing and find everything out. On the other hand, long wait for T = not good for stealth.  You must forgive me, I don't really understand how the system works and I'm still trying to figure all of this out.

The plan's flawed in that I can only start T after I get to uni, but I really don't know what to do. I can't go to my GP here, if my parents found out I'd made an appointment or, heavens forefend, found out about the whole affair I don't know what I'd do. This 'real life experience' thing - do you mean they want you to have lived openly trans for three months prior? That... makes a lot of problems. I didn't know about that.

If its at all possible I would suggest going to your GP ASAP, they can't inform your parents, or anyone else of why you're going there due to patient confidentiality, with the usual exceptions of if you're at immediate danger or going to cause harm to someone else etc.  There are pretty long waits for GIC referrals, and it might help to get the ball rolling.  That's just my personal suggestion though, you obviously know if it's possible for you to do so without your family knowing.  They don't need to know you're going to your GP and not going to a mates/shopping/whatever.

I forget the actual link to where I read about the real life experience for the NHS, maybe someone who's gone though/going through the process will be able to chip in here.  I'm still trying to find the right time to come out to my parents for a second time at the moment.  The real life experience generally involves being a student or holding down employment as male for the necessary amount of time (I'm sure I read 3 months somewhere but can't find it now).  If that can't be done then they'll try to work around it, but if you're going to uni as male and seeing a GIC that will fulfill that criteria.

You say that you want to do this while you're at university so your parents don't find out, but at some point it is going to be impossible to hide any longer, are you prepared for them to potentially cut you out entirely then this happens?  They might not take it well if you told them now, but there's more chance of them taking it well if you're honest with them up front instead of going through with this behind their back.  Just something to consider.

All depends on how much your body changes and if your folks are able to see it.  I have been on t for a year and half.  Parents haven't seen me but a handful of times.  They always ask on the phone if I have a cold.  They don't want to admit/ see the changes.

Thank you all for your help.

I found this explanatory pdf, which was pretty helpful. Although it seems to be from around 2007, so I'm not sure how relevant it is.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130107105354/http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_082955.pdf

So it seems going stealth at university is not an option, which is a shame, but I guess I don't have a choice. And gosh, I had no idea it could take up to a year to get hormones. I am probably going to follow your advice and talk to the GP where I am now first. The only reason I'm worried is because I live in a tiny hamlet - they'd be able to see me going to the doctor's from the window of my house... and I've only ever gone there for maleria injections (for travelling and whatnot), I don't even remember the last time I had a checkup. It's going to be so awkward.

And yes, I will have to tell them eventually. I'd just rather wait until I am financially independent so that if they do cut me off it won't be a total catastrophe.

you look like one of the guys from 1 direction to me. okay, you probably need to tell them the truth and if they disaprove you, just disaprove them. reject them for a few months and see how they feel. if they want you again, then tell them you will only see them if they accept you are a boy. if not, just never see them again. this may sound mean but it's the truth okay so don't take it personally.

Quote from: Lajs on June 22, 2013, 04:45:31 AM
Thank you all for your help.

I found this explanatory pdf, which was pretty helpful. Although it seems to be from around 2007, so I'm not sure how relevant it is.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130107105354/http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_082955.pdf

So it seems going stealth at university is not an option, which is a shame, but I guess I don't have a choice. And gosh, I had no idea it could take up to a year to get hormones. I am probably going to follow your advice and talk to the GP where I am now first. The only reason I'm worried is because I live in a tiny hamlet - they'd be able to see me going to the doctor's from the window of my house... and I've only ever gone there for maleria injections (for travelling and whatnot), I don't even remember the last time I had a checkup. It's going to be so awkward.

And yes, I will have to tell them eventually. I'd just rather wait until I am financially independent so that if they do cut me off it won't be a total catastrophe.

That document is out-of-date, I'm afraid. One of the ways in which it is out-of-date is in its mention of bringing down the wait times to 18 weeks. This was something they wanted to do back then, but it proved to be impossible so they've given up trying. So now your wait is as long as a piece of string. 

The NHS changed the way it funds everything in April and everyone is still getting used to the system. Including GPs, many of whom are confused by the new funding procedures. Here's my post from a couple of months ago, explaining how it now works:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=138907.0

And here's a much more up-to-date document which gives you a fairly accurate idea of the process on the NHS, at least the early stages of it. This is aimed at GPs but you might find it useful to print it & hand it to your GP if necessary - it's only 19 pages - because most GPs have never had a trans* patient before and don't know what to do for them: http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Transhealth/Documents/gender-dysphoria-guide-for-gps-and-other-health-care-staff.pdf

So yeah, the sooner you talk to a GP the better, because it's a long road and you need to get started ASAP. But also consider this: you're probably going to want to attend a clinic near where you're living at the time of your transition, especially if you don't want your folks to know what you're up to. If you're moving to a different part of the country, would it make more sense to see a clinic there, rather than near home? If so, speak to your GP about whether they'll be able to apply for funding in a different town.

You'll see from the document I've linked above that patient confidentiality is a Big Thing, and the NHS will not want your doctor to go blabbing to your parents about the nature of your visit. This is especially important if you're over 18, but if you're under 18 your parents have a right to be informed about the nature of your visit. So please consider this before going to your GP.

I fully understand why you don't want your parents to know before you're ready to let them know. You may also have quite a wait before you can start medically transitioning. But please be aware: you can start your social transition at any time, including before you have medical treatment. You can cut your hair, dress exclusively in male clothing, and even change your name & title by Deed Poll long before you see anyone. So when you enrol at Uni, you could speak to their admissions people to let them know you're trans*, ask them to put your preferred name on your records so that all the teachers will call you by it (even if you haven't legally changed it yet), and start presenting as male on your very first day. At your age, you could easily get away with being a teenage boy going through a late puberty. And above all else, stress that they must keep this strictly confidential, particularly when it comes to your parents. It'd be a very smart move if you were to contact your Uni's LGBT liaison officer first to discuss this because they'll probably have dealt with students going through something similar already and they could offer advice & support.

Thank you very much FTM diaries for the links. I think I understand all this a lot more clearly now.
.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on June 22, 2013, 06:58:36 AM
So yeah, the sooner you talk to a GP the better, because it's a long road and you need to get started ASAP. But also consider this: you're probably going to want to attend a clinic near where you're living at the time of your transition, especially if you don't want your folks to know what you're up to. If you're moving to a different part of the country, would it make more sense to see a clinic there, rather than near home? If so, speak to your GP about whether they'll be able to apply for funding in a different town.

Yes, I do want to take this to my GP at uni, which is what I had originally intended. But some of the others suggested that it may help to get things started by going to the one here, which I think would be a good idea as well. I'm 18, so knowing that my parents won't be able to find out why I went the doctor is a relief.

Ah, and following your advice, I've found a LGBT association specific to my university which promises to be really helpful.

In terms of social transitioning, I'm trying to do the best I can do for myself physically. I've even been 'sirred' several times, which feels encouraging, but I am still so early in this process. I'm ready to change my name as soon as I move out - actually I'm very excited for that. I'd do it now but, just as with everything else, I'm afraid my parents would find out. And I've heard there may be a fee involved with this, but I can't seem to find anywhere that says approximately how much it would be. I don't suppose anyone would happen to know?

Thank you all very much, I really appreciate your input. 

Quote from: Lajs on June 21, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
They know nothing, as far as I know. The only thing I've done is bought myself a ton of man-clothes in preperation for imminent transition. My mother's always tried to buy me girly stuff and I've had to start politely refusing to allow this - because she's wasting her money and I'm never going to wear them. Plus I don't have room to take all that with me if I'm not going to use it. She's seems a bit bemused, but I don't think she questions it too much. I hope she doesn't.

Then maybe they won't find out. What Robert said, my grandma is similar to his parents. She knows nothing but she sees the changes but don't want to admit. Good luck with your transition!

Quote from: Lajs on June 22, 2013, 02:47:54 PM

In terms of social transitioning, I'm trying to do the best I can do for myself physically. I've even been 'sirred' several times, which feels encouraging, but I am still so early in this process. I'm ready to change my name as soon as I move out - actually I'm very excited for that. I'd do it now but, just as with everything else, I'm afraid my parents would find out. And I've heard there may be a fee involved with this, but I can't seem to find anywhere that says approximately how much it would be. I don't suppose anyone would happen to know?

Thank you all very much, I really appreciate your input. 

You're more than welcome.

As for changing your name: the simplest way is to do it via Deed Poll. I did mine last year, over the Internet. Just type 'deed poll uk' into Google for some options; the first one that comes up is the one I used and I can thoroughly recommend them. It took a little over two weeks in total and it cost less than £60 in total.

You fill in their online form & pay by card, then a couple of days later they send you the paperwork to be signed. It has to be countersigned by a professional person (such as your GP, or a teacher, or a family friend who has a professional job) - my boss signed mine for me - then you check everything is correct and post it back to them. They then get one of their lawyers to notarise it and it is then sent back to you for you to use.

A couple of tips:

• Under UK law, you can use any common title you like (e.g. Mr, Mrs, Miss or whatever). The Deed Poll people allow you to record a change in your title on your deed poll for no extra charge. Whilst not strictly necessary, I found it very useful when insisting that my bank etc. should now address me as 'Mr' - it really strengthened my case.
• I paid a little bit more for their Archiving service (where they keep a copy in case you ever lost your original) and I paid for several Certified Copies to be made & sent to me. This proved to be a godsend because you'll be surprised how many organisations insist on the 'original' (never send that to anyone) but a certified copy is perfectly adequate for everyone I've sent it to, including the Government.

Deed Polls aren't recorded or published anywhere, so your parents wouldn't find out. The only way they'd know is if you started receiving letters in your new name... but the Deed Poll service even lets you specify that their correspondence with you should go to your old name so they've got that covered too.

Quote from: Lajs on June 22, 2013, 02:47:54 PM
In terms of social transitioning, I'm trying to do the best I can do for myself physically. I've even been 'sirred' several times, which feels encouraging, but I am still so early in this process. I'm ready to change my name as soon as I move out - actually I'm very excited for that. I'd do it now but, just as with everything else, I'm afraid my parents would find out. And I've heard there may be a fee involved with this, but I can't seem to find anywhere that says approximately how much it would be. I don't suppose anyone would happen to know?

As for the name change, the most common way to do that is via deed poll, but you can get it done by going to a solicitor.  Techically you can just get it changed by an ad in the papers, or a letter from your GP/priest or someone else responsible, but the Passport agency and a couple of other places won't accept that.  There are quite a few websites offering deed poll services for reasonable prices, just google "UK Deed Poll" and you'll get a list of them.  The prices seem to vary between £15 and £40 from what I've seen when I had a quick look.

My parents knew I was on hormones, and they did notice a few changes like in voice and stuff...but I had family I didn't tell (I was sick of arguments and didn't want more). They knew I was trans but not that I was on hormones, so it was always "oh, do you have a cold?" Lol. The changes, now over a year on T, are too noticeable to be written off because my facial hair is visible and my voice is male-sounding, but there was a definite time period where it wasn't noticeable to those who saw me regularly.

Actually, one family member, at one point, stopped recognizing me. She thinks I am a boy who comes along with my brother to family events. They told her once that I was "birthname", and she said "really?? No." And then forgot about it and now just thinks I am a family friend. and no one has said anything, including myself. She's known me my whole life but I am now unrecognizable lmao. She doesn't understand why "birthname" no longer comes to family events even though I am right in front of her face.

Question to all those who answered "no" to the opening post -- is it possible if he or anyone else was just on a really low dose of gel or cream rather than taking injections? From what I understood previously, taking the low dose of gel/cream brings the changes slower.