Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
I have a suggestion that I feel will promote honest communication. Make it a requirement that all Susan's staff members post their own picture instead of a ficticious avatar. Let them lead by example.

Why should staff members be required to give up their anonymity? There are people I am not out too, including many of my relatives. This site gets heavy traffic, and is arguably one of the most visited sites for transgendered people, if not the most visited.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
I've thought about this karma thing overnight; and I really don't see where it would be a help in promoting the kind of exchange I have loved here at Susan's. We have counts of posts, staff titles, stars; and now we have a metric that gages our "reputation." I just wanted to have honest, transparent, compassionate exchanges here; and I have always strived to do just that. Now, in spite of my best intentions to carry through with genuine communication and yes, love, with my kindered sisters, I feel that any dialog from here forward will be tainted with a "reputation" marker; but no marker can quantify my heart-felt feelings for those of our group.
I have a suggestion that I feel will promote honest communication. Make it a requirement that all Susan's staff members post their own picture instead of a ficticious avatar. Let them lead by example. Also, you might want to consider zeroing out everyone's reputation - start out on equal footing, as it were. Let the past stay in the past.
My love goes out to all you girls who are transparent - it really comes through in your posts. They ring with truth and compassion. To me, that is the hallmark of a good woman - the kind I want to be. I'm sure that I will get a chance to meet some of you at events or in other forums. Many of you have become very dear to me.

Please withdraw my membership. Like Martin Luther said: "...since it is neither safe nor honourable to act against conscience."
-Barbara Ann

I don't really pay attention to the poster's reputation number when reading a post. The reputation markers were always here prior to a forum bug. I enjoy giving karma. It's an easy way to say 'right on' to a post without posting a reply. I doubt that our members here would be so petty as to use the karma system for some type of puerile popularity contest. Also, as was previously stated several times in this thread, smites are taken very seriously and frivolous smiting is not tolerated.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM

I have a suggestion that I feel will promote honest communication. Make it a requirement that all Susan's staff members post their own picture instead of a ficticious avatar. Let them lead by example.

Barbara, while I hope that you reconsider, for I have enjoyed reading your posts, I take no issue with your decision or anything you have said, but for this one suggestion.

I am simply not comfortable with having every post I write show my appearance.  When I choose to post my picture, fine.  I chose to post that in response to something said.  But for me to decide "My picture belongs everywhere"...  I am not happy enough with my appearance to do so.  I do not wish to see my own face and upper body, as it is right now, staring at me from every post I make.  If it is not a requirement for anyone else and I do not see why it SHOULD be a requirement, then why should I be required to do so?  What is leading by example when there is no problem to begin with?  I am obviously not an anime mecha.  I do not deceive anyone with this.  I would rather have no avatar than to, at this time, post my own picture.

Give up being anon? Impossible for me.  A good part of the staff have seen an actual pic of me though so it is not like I have remained behind the curtain all of the time.

Karma was here before and with the exception of a few abusers (who were dealt with), it worked fine and does not create a society of have and have nots.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AMAlso, you might want to consider zeroing out everyone's reputation - start out on equal footing, as it were. Let the past stay in the past.

That would be unfair to our long time members, some of whom have been here for years. It makes sense that a member who's posted here for years would have a higher karma than a member who has just registered.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AMI have a suggestion that I feel will promote honest communication. Make it a requirement that all Susan's staff members post their own picture instead of a ficticious avatar. Let them lead by example.

Wouldn't a better idea be for you to use your picture as your avatar and lead by example rather than expect others to?

Thanks Susan,

I also agree that the Karma system promotes positive posting. I also love to be able to give someone kudo's when they write a good post and tell them why.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Nero on June 28, 2007, 12:19:21 PM
I doubt that our members here would be so petty as to use the karma system for some type of puerile popularity contest.

If they do the applaud is removed; The karma given is taken seriously as well;

...

All in all the way Karma is used here it is honestly not a bad system, and I HAVE left boards that had a lousy implemented of the reputation idea before.

The best advice I can give: If it bothers you, ignore it's existence.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
I've thought about this karma thing overnight; and I really don't see where it would be a help in promoting the kind of exchange I have loved here at Susan's. We have counts of posts, staff titles, stars; and now we have a metric that gages our "reputation." I just wanted to have honest, transparent, compassionate exchanges here; and I have always strived to do just that. Now, in spite of my best intentions to carry through with genuine communication and yes, love, with my kindered sisters, I feel that any dialog from here forward will be tainted with a "reputation" marker; but no marker can quantify my heart-felt feelings for those of our group.

We have had the reputation system for years, it's not new. I can tell you based on years of experience, that the reputation system encourages exactly what you claim you seek.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
I have a suggestion that I feel will promote honest communication. Make it a requirement that all Susan's staff members post their own picture instead of a ficticious avatar. Let them lead by example.

I do not and will not require anyone to post an photograph as an avatar, staff or otherwise, until they are comfortable enough and ready to do so on their own.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
Also, you might want to consider zeroing out everyone's reputation - start out on equal footing, as it were. Let the past stay in the past.

I did zero out all negative reputation. Everyone started at 0. I will not take reputation which people earned through their contributions to this community and take it away from them. You don't generally need to worry about reputation, it comes frequently, on it's own. You can even help. Reward people who you feel make excellent posts, posts on topics you like, or people who you feel just needs to know that someone appreciated them. That's the reputation system at it's core.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
My love goes out to all you girls who are transparent - it really comes through in your posts. They ring with truth and compassion. To me, that is the hallmark of a good woman - the kind I want to be. I'm sure that I will get a chance to meet some of you at events or in other forums. Many of you have become very dear to me.

Please withdraw my membership. Like Martin Luther said: "...since it is neither safe nor honourable to act against conscience."

If you wish for your account to be deleted you must request it via your profile.

I think you are being over-reactionary on this. If you check the reputation log once you reach 15 points you will find that reputation isn't petty, it's used mostly as a positive reinforcement. It's a way to say good post to people for whatever reason.

Quote

Who	Whom	(+/-)	Reason	Where	When
Susan (+169/-0)	melissa90299 (+4/-2)	+	For apologizing	In topic	Today at 05:27:45 PM
Kiera (+12/-0)	Barbara Ann (+2/-0)	+	Needed a hug!	In topic	Today at 04:42:16 PM
Nero (+37/-0)	Lori (+22/-0)	+	rofl!	In topic	Today at 04:19:11 PM
Susan (+169/-0)	melissa90299 (+4/-2)	-	Attack the issue never the person	In topic	Today at 03:06:42 PM
POSH (+1/-0)	melissa90299 (+4/-2)	-	Not really a people person	In topic	Today at 02:53:08 PM
louise000 (+1/-0)	mavieenrose (+2/-0)	+	Because Mver's post was very well informed	In topic	Today at 02:21:03 PM
Nero (+37/-0)	MeghanAndrews (+2/-0)	+	made me laugh	In topic	Today at 02:14:34 PM
Ken/Kendra (+23/-0)	Marq and Mia (+6/-0)	+	Great Bigender Post	In topic	Today at 01:23:36 PM
Nero (+37/-0)	RebeccaFog (+16/-0)	+	I'm sorry, doll.	In topic	Today at 12:43:55 PM
Dennis (+61/-0)	Susan (+169/-0)	+	For reinstalling karma - thanks Susan	In topic	Today at 12:30:42 PM
Nero (+37/-0)	Tay (+1/-0)	+	helpful post	In topic	Today at 12:27:28 PM
Pica Pica (+1/-0)	Doc (+1/-0)	+	Knowledge of pirates	In topic	Today at 10:07:11 AM
Jaston (+1/-0)	gina_taylor (+13/-0)	+	Because shes a lovely woman	In topic	Today at 08:05:04 AM
Jaston (+1/-0)	Rob (+1/-0)	+	Because he gave me so much information on FTM	In topic	Today at 08:04:44 AM
Jaston (+1/-0)	Hidrix (+3/-0)	+	Cool dude	In topic	Today at 07:10:19 AM
Susan (+169/-0)	Keira (+2/-0)	+	Very nice	In topic	Today at 07:09:02 AM
Susan (+169/-0)	LostInTime (+42/-0)	+	Thank you again for all the news!	In topic	Today at 07:08:15 AM
Nero (+37/-0)	RebeccaFog (+16/-0)	+	good topic	In topic	Today at 03:30:14 AM
ChildOfTheLight (+5/-0)	Kate (+76/-0)	+	Happy birthday!	In topic	Today at 12:07:40 AM

I hope you reconsider, but I will not ask you to stay if you feel this isn't the place for you. Either way you decide, we wish you nothing but the best.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
I've thought about this karma thing overnight; and I really don't see where it would be a help in promoting the kind of exchange I have loved here at Susan's. We have counts of posts, staff titles, stars; and now we have a metric that gages our "reputation." I just wanted to have honest, transparent, compassionate exchanges here; and I have always strived to do just that. Now, in spite of my best intentions to carry through with genuine communication and yes, love, with my kindered sisters, I feel that any dialog from here forward will be tainted with a "reputation" marker; but no marker can quantify my heart-felt feelings for those of our group.
I have a suggestion that I feel will promote honest communication. Make it a requirement that all Susan's staff members post their own picture instead of a ficticious avatar. Let them lead by example. Also, you might want to consider zeroing out everyone's reputation - start out on equal footing, as it were. Let the past stay in the past.
My love goes out to all you girls who are transparent - it really comes through in your posts. They ring with truth and compassion. To me, that is the hallmark of a good woman - the kind I want to be. I'm sure that I will get a chance to meet some of you at events or in other forums. Many of you have become very dear to me.

Please withdraw my membership. Like Martin Luther said: "...since it is neither safe nor honourable to act against conscience."
-Barbara Ann

[shaking her head in great sadness]

Oh my Lord....

I have nothing further to say on this. 

In order to answer some of your comments:

To Susan:
"I did zero out all negative reputation. Everyone started at 0. I will not take reputation which people earned through their contributions to this community and take it away from them."

I'm puzzled about that,Susan. On one hand, you zeroed out members negative reputation; yet, you keep the positive reputation, stating that you will not take away the reputation that a person has earned. Didn't they earn the negative reputation also?

"We have had the reputation system for years, it's not new. I can tell you based on years of experience, that the reputation system encourages exactly what you claim you seek."

It seems to me that the age of this, or any system, is not a validation for it continued use. Change the wording a litte, and one might use the statement to support any number of things.

"what you claim you seek."
What I claim I seek? Search my posts, and you can see what I seek - compassion - honesty - thankfulness; and yes, I am goofy at times.

To Nikki:
"Wouldn't a better idea be for you to use your picture as your avatar and lead by example rather than expect others to?"

Online reputation (taken from Wikipedia): Reputation is a factor in any online community where trust is important. Examples include eBay, an auction service which uses a system of customer feedback to publicly rate each member's reputation.

But Nikki, I'm just a lowly new member. I'm just starting on transition. I don't have a bunch of stars, staff title, hundreds (or thousands) of posts, and now, a high reputation factor (read trust) attached to my name. I don't have all these markers that give the perception of the person having a high level of achievement, knowledge, and yes, authority. I know what it's like to introduce myself and fervently hope to get some help with my journey; and I'm thankful to this day for those who encouraged me. People who are in the position of authority are also in the position to influence those around them. What better way to encourage and foster open, honest communication among the members of the community than to show others the real face behind the posts? We encourage new members to feel at ease and express themselves - but I feel that many of the staff (read leaders, for that is how I believe they are perceived) are sending a mixed message when they use a fake avatar. This is all just my opinion, as always.
Barb

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PMTo Nikki:
"Wouldn't a better idea be for you to use your picture as your avatar and lead by example rather than expect others to?"

Online reputation (taken from Wikipedia): Reputation is a factor in any online community where trust is important. Examples include eBay, an auction service which uses a system of customer feedback to publicly rate each member's reputation.

But Nikki, I'm just a lowly new member. I'm just starting on transition. I don't have a bunch of stars, staff title, hundreds (or thousands) of posts, and now, a high reputation factor (read trust) attached to my name. I don't have all these markers that give the perception of the person having a high level of achievement, knowledge, and yes, authority. I know what it's like to introduce myself and fervently hope to get some help with my journey; and I'm thankful to this day for those who encouraged me. People who are in the position of authority are also in the position to influence those around them. What better way to encourage and foster open, honest communication among the members of the community than to show others the real face behind the posts? We encourage new members to feel at ease and express themselves - but I feel that many of the staff (read leaders, for that is how I believe they are perceived) are sending a mixed message when they use a fake avatar. This is all just my opinion, as always.

There is no "level" that must be achieved to lead by example. You don't lead from a position, you gain a position by leading. If you believe showing your real face as your avatar is best to encourage "open, honest, communication", you have all the position you need to lead by example... 15 posts. Don't assign others to carry your causes, encourage others to "join" you in your cause.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
To Susan:
"I did zero out all negative reputation. Everyone started at 0. I will not take reputation which people earned through their contributions to this community and take it away from them."

I'm puzzled about that,Susan. On one hand, you zeroed out members negative reputation; yet, you keep the positive reputation, stating that you will not take away the reputation that a person has earned. Didn't they earn the negative reputation also?

Yes but I regularly wipe bad karma to give people chances to start over.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
"We have had the reputation system for years, it's not new. I can tell you based on years of experience, that the reputation system encourages exactly what you claim you seek."

It seems to me that the age of this, or any system, is not a validation for it continued use. Change the wording a litte, and one might use the statement to support any number of things.

We have our experience here to use to validate it's continued presence on this site. It serves a moderating influence and one that's here to stay.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
"what you claim you seek."
What I claim I seek? Search my posts, and you can see what I seek - compassion - honesty - thankfulness; and yes, I am goofy at times.

Which is exactly what the reputation system helps to encourage.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
To Nikki:
"Wouldn't a better idea be for you to use your picture as your avatar and lead by example rather than expect others to?"

Online reputation (taken from Wikipedia): Reputation is a factor in any online community where trust is important. Examples include eBay, an auction service which uses a system of customer feedback to publicly rate each member's reputation.

Our reputation system does not work in this manner but isn't trust here important as well.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
But Nikki, I'm just a lowly new member. I'm just starting on transition. I don't have a bunch of stars, staff title, hundreds (or thousands) of posts, and now, a high reputation factor (read trust) attached to my name. I don't have all these markers that give the perception of the person having a high level of achievement, knowledge, and yes, authority.

All those things come based on how long you have been here, and your contributions to the community, so stop sweating them so much.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
I know what it's like to introduce myself and fervently hope to get some help with my journey; and I'm thankful to this day for those who encouraged me. People who are in the position of authority are also in the position to influence those around them.

Have you ever seen anyone who came here looking for support and encouragement who didn't find an overabundance of here?

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
What better way to encourage and foster open, honest communication among the members of the community than to show others the real face behind the posts? We encourage new members to feel at ease and express themselves - but I feel that many of the staff (read leaders, for that is how I believe they are perceived) are sending a mixed message when they use a fake avatar. This is all just my opinion, as always.
Barb

I said it's not going to happen, so it's not going to happen. It's time to move on.

Quote from: Barbara Ann on June 28, 2007, 07:10:07 PM
We encourage new members to feel at ease and express themselves - but I feel that many of the staff (read leaders, for that is how I believe they are perceived) are sending a mixed message when they use a fake avatar.

We encourage new members to feel at ease and express themselves, and part of that is for them to not have to place their face on the site.  How would you feel knowing that, once you got a certain "status" on the site or a staff position, you would be required to place a photograph of yourself next to every single post you make?  The idea makes me uncomfortable, personally.  If that were required, I would have refused my position as chat staff.  Not to sound hopelessly arrogant, but I do believe I have something to contribute as a staff member.  I educate on androgyne gender identity on another site (a forum for youth) and I regularly refer people questioning their gender to Susan's chat.  I like to be there to greet the new kids on the block, so to speak.

If others say that I am being dishonest by having a mecha as my avatar, then I will consider perhaps that I may change my avatar, but if I was required to have a picture of me, I would find a loophole--you'd probably end up with a picture of my wrist or something, anyway.

It's fine. Tay don't sweat it...

i like that we can see why we get reputation points... i think without that it wouldn't be as effective.

Quote from: ht on June 29, 2007, 04:04:41 PM
i like that we can see why we get reputation points... i think without that it wouldn't be as effective.

It wasn't
I agree though, being able to see the justification behind the applaud/smite is part of what makes this system work.

One of the things I do is come up with a "karma quotient". This is the person's total number of posts divided by their karma. In this way I don't rate someone higher or more trustworthy just because they have been here longer. There is a difference between someone that gets a Karma point for every 10 posts they make as opposed to someone who gets a karma point for every 100 posts they make. Anyway, that is how I use it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Laura Elizabeth Jones on June 28, 2007, 08:32:44 PM

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 27, 2007, 08:53:20 PM
I hate the concept    !!!!

So we all try to be popular to get some "belonging" brownie points.

Sounds so much like the school and workplace cliques I have always so much hated ! And the snobbery and judgmentalism that goes with them  .

So some posters become "better than others"   ?

Big brother giving us popularity gradings  !

Horrid idea, really really really horrid idea ....

Please lets all be equals in our worth until we're judged in the minds of others. But not a forum mark (aka. school grade for being a good girl).  Please ?

Laura x

I think that the reputation idea is a good one since it allows people to be judged by how they act on this board. I do not see it as "popularity gradings" at all. But, that is okay, you have your viewpoint on this and others have theirs. I guess it will just be one of those "agree to disagree" type of issues.

ayup. I imagine such a system has seen abuses in the past, and that wheel will just-a keep on turnin.

"karma"

Well, personally I don't care what my 'karma' is. I'll admit I don't like the idea but ultimately I have no say so there's no use in arguing. I do not smite and I do not applaud as I do not want to be drawn into any melodramas online. 

    
Re: Karma has returned.

karma always returns, that's what it does