One thing I have hard time with is how people expect me to "be a man" since that's what they see on the outside but inside it's the complete opposite. I hate when people talk to me as "one of the guys" or group me with other men. Then there's whole aspect of what is expected of men. For example, I being the only other "male" in the house had to help lift two extremely heavy couches and I have thin arms and very little upper body strength. I struggled with feeling like I shouldn't be asked to do heavy lifting since on the inside, I am female and women shouldn't have to do such things, but also having guilt that I in a male body was complaining about lifting a heavy object when most men would do it willingly. it's very frustrating to live up to what people want me to be as man when I'm not a man. Was I in the wrong or has anyone else ever felt this way?

Most of us gals probably feel or have felt this way, thats why we are here. Similar story, never liked hanging out with the guys (or even boys in school) because I just can't relate. I share no interest in male-centric actvities, I can't dress or groom like a guy (outside of jeans and a tee shirt.) I've always liked makeup and fashion, always preferred the company and friendship of women over men. Expectations of "being a man" I think are toxic not only to us girls but to men as well.

Yeah... definitely something that drove me absolutely crazy back in the day. Pretty much word for word. Hated having to lift stuff, hated those stupid heteronormative male expectations about being a casanova, HATED people saying things like "suck it up" and "be a man," and I just wanted to scream "I'm not a man, damn it!!! I don't want to be one!"

Most of my friendships are with women too, but I do like the company of men, very much so in fact  , but when it's a group situation of guys being guys and they start talking about sports and girls, ect., I feel like an alien. I have no idea what to say or do.

At my job in a camp kitchen we unload the food from
Pallets ourselves...
Some of them are like 40-50 lbs
It can be stressfull....so I just had tj tell my coworkers
That I'm on hormones and I'm now got the strength of a
120 lb girl....they understood....but now tease me lol

So all is good...and most men when they look at me
They understand that I'm not like a cis male
But sometimes I think I'm so feminized they don't
Even talk to me like one of the boys.

Actually they have been around me when we talk about
Boys!!

Sorry if I am not supposed to post here(still getting used to the forum).

But, it is awesome to see that there are other people who feel the way I do I hate hanging out with my guy friends, think the only reason I do is because I feel kind of bad ending friendships after knowing them for most of my life.

I really love hanging out with girls, because they seem to understand me, and I can express myself around them. I really hate when people expect me to be like other guys, I don't like talking about girls, I don't like heavy lifting or any of that stuff, even though I play paintball and enjoy it, that is probably the only guy thing I like(though I hesitate because I hate hurting people). I have tried being like other guys, but I just end up not fitting in with them.

I don't think my friends and family understand this though, and if they don't, then I doubt they will understand that I have wanted to be a girl since I was like 6(don't remember exactly how old I was, so just a guess)...

Anyways, hope I helped(I love helping people by the way).

Yup, I felt the same way. I have always been pretty small and would be a little bummed out if someone asked me to do guys work. When I was hanging out with the guys I always felt pretty awkward and couldn't really relate to the things they were talking about. Now that I switched, things are fine across the board. It feels nice to almost expect a guy to help you with heavy lifting and to be stereotyped (sometimes) as a girl.

Kind of an interesting topic for me because I haven't thought about this much but it brought to mind how things have changed for me. I was always the heavy lifter in the past, but over the last half dozen years it seems that both men and women hold doors for me which may just be polite courtesy at work. Men won't let me lift or do any of the stuff I used to do and am still plenty capable of doing. I've just kind of taken it for granted and assume that it's because I'm a senior now, but oddly in many cases I am way more physically fit than a lot of men that are bending over backwards to do things for me. So I guess I'm getting a little of that R-E-S-P-E-C-T that Aretha Franklin sung about.

Quote from: so over you on June 29, 2013, 12:26:25 PM
The weirdest thing to me was people expecting me to know about cars, I didn't know the first thing about cars and my sister would ask me to help with her car... I'd just be like... YOU'RE the one who owns a car here, don't look at me

Oh god I hate when this happens. I can fix a flat but that is the extent of my car knowledge. Guys talk about cars ALL the time and I just get this blank look on my face I just find it the most boring subject. I have never understood it. When I bought my first car had to take my mom so I didn't get ripped off. She's tough.

That being said I can talk about baseball. But mainly with my brother. I really don't think sports are typically male at all though. Every cis girl I know (and I have been best friends with a lot) played sports growing up. Also most of them like at least one sport and get really into it. often times this is hockey, which is why I started calling it a girl's sport which pisses off my friend.

The main thing I hate about hanging out with a group of men is the sex talk. It makes me really uncomfortable. I usually just say something like "awesome" or "high five" or "you're the man." Most guys prolly think/thought I am gay.

Wow am I like the only one who can fit in with men or women. I've never really had a problem hanging out with men granted the further I go in hrt the more mysterious their behavior is to me. Which also makes them more alluring to me. I don't have a problem conversating with women either. But as far as the topic is concerned expectations don't really bother me since I've never done what was expected of me. 

Quote from: Heather on June 29, 2013, 01:14:44 PM
Wow am I like the only one who can fit in with men or women.

Nope. I've always gotten along much better with women and all my best friends were women except for one or two, but I fit in with men just fine. I just don't like talking bout sex. But that could be more prudish Catholicism then anything else. I've always had a lot of friends both men and women. So you're not alone at all. I was kinda thinking the same thing.

The only time I really felt left out of male rituals was when my friends used to play frisbee and catch a couple years ago and only my one friend, who was the leader of the group and its keystone, would pass it to me. TBF, I can't throw for the life of me. He eventually outcasted me though as his other friends did not like me. But that whole group fell apart around that time. But I was in and this was for years and years like a decade. My entire 20s.

I can fit in with all women's circle too oddly. I went out bar hopping with my ex-GF and our mutual best friend with a bunch of my GF's friends from the Salon and at one point this girl came up and she was like OMG I totally keep forgetting you're a guy you fit in so well and then said you're one of the girls! Then she was like oh I'm sorry. MY GF was like don't seat it, he gets that a lot and likes it that way.

Women are more backstabby, men are more jerkish. I watch what I say around both genders.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 29, 2013, 01:25:49 PM
Nope. I've always gotten along much better with women and all my best friends were women except for one or two, but I fit in with men just fine. I just don't like talking bout sex. But that could be more prudish Catholicism then anything else. I've always had a lot of friends both men and women. So you're not alone at all. I was kinda thinking the same thing.

The only time I really felt left out of male rituals was when my friends used to play frisbee and catch a couple years ago and only my one friend, who was the leader of the group and its keystone, would pass it to me. TBF, I can't throw for the life of me. He eventually outcasted me though as his other friends did not like me. But that whole group fell apart around that time. But I was in and this was for years and years like a decade. My entire 20s.

I can fit in with all women's circle too oddly. I went out bar hopping with my ex-GF and our mutual best friend with a bunch of my GF's friends from the Salon and at one point this girl came up and she was like OMG I totally keep forgetting you're a guy you fit in so well and then said you're one of the girls! Then she was like oh I'm sorry. MY GF was like don't seat it, he gets that a lot and likes it that way.

When I was a kid I had very few friends that were boys I spent most of my time around girls. And it wasn't because I was surrounded by girls either but I did seem to fit in with the girls better I was actually friends with most of my sisters friends. But as I got to be a teenager I spent more time around the guys maybe because I was attracted to them who knows but I did spend most of my time around guys.
So I let that continue into adulthood but really I don't know if I've ever really been treated like one of the guys I get along just fine with them like when I play basketball with my friends they know I don't play basketball so they kind of treat me like a girl when I play. And for some reason my friends girlfriends always end up talking to me and telling me stuff they won't tell them. Also my guy friends never really took me out to to strip clubs or any of their other party things. Actually they never have even invited me to a bachelor party which at one point when we younger they were constantly going too.
So yeah now that I think about it have they ever treated me like one of the guys? It's funny how I really thought I was good at pretending I was a guy when really I'm starting to see I suck at it!

Quote from: Heather on June 29, 2013, 03:57:12 PM
Also my guy friends never really took me out to to strip clubs or any of their other party things. Actually they never have even invited me to a bachelor party which at one point when we younger they were constantly going too.
So yeah now that I think about it have they ever treated me like one of the guys? It's funny how I really thought I was good at pretending I was a guy when really I'm starting to see I suck at it!

I guess I'm the only one as I have been to strip clubs tons of times. I live in the Northeast though and to be honest there seems to be a lot less segregation of genders here then elsewhere, anecdotally. Because most girls I know have been to strips clubs too. I used to go to strip clubs with my GF and our friends. So strip clubs are not the best example for where I live.

And then again I also haven't had the same experience of being asked to move stuff or participate in male only behavior. In fact, I am always passed over. In fact, most of my life I have been treated like a girl. I get flowers for my birthday sometimes. I got a bouquet of roses for graduation. I once lost an arm wrestling match to a girl and she said "I still have never lost to a girl." Meaning me. Other girls tell me how they think they can kick my a**. People misgender me. I once had to prove I was a guy. The list goes on and on. Sometimes I think this is the very reason I am trans. But it's not.

Have others had this experience? I once asked my friends if it ever happened to him and he said "No it's you. You look like a dyke. The boobs aren't helping. Stop drinking milk." lol this was like three years ago. Last year my other friend straight up told me I'd be better offf as a woman. IDK. It's really confusing and this stuff used to really bother and make me want to die. I drank heavily as a result. Some people may act like this is validating and maybe it is but I assure you I did not like it and it made me feel like a freak. My ex used to say I was woman with a birth defect. Meaning penis.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 29, 2013, 04:05:38 PM
I guess I'm the only one as I have been to strip clubs tons of times. I live in the Northeast though and to be honest there seems to be a lot less segregation of genders here then elsewhere, anecdotally. Because most girls I know have been to strips clubs too. I used to go to strip clubs with my GF and our friends. So strip clubs are not the best example for where I live.

And then again I also haven't had the same experience of being asked to move stuff or participate in male only behavior. In fact, I am always passed over. In fact, most of my life I have been treated like a girl. I get flowers for my birthday sometimes. I got a bouquet of roses for graduation. I once lost an arm wrestling match to a girl and she said "I still have never lost to a girl." Meaning me. Other girls tell me how they think they can kick my a**. People misgender me. I once had to prove I was a guy. The list goes on and on. Sometimes I think this is the very reason I am trans. But it's not.

I've only been to a strip club twice and I knew right away it wasn't the right atmosphere for me so I let my friends do that without me. As far as helping people move I have helped plenty of people move when your 6'2 and built like an athlete helping people move kinda just happens and to be honest until I started hrt lifting stuff has never been a problem so helping people move was really no problem.

Quote from: Heather on June 29, 2013, 04:20:58 PM
I've only been to a strip club twice and I knew right away it wasn't the right atmosphere for me so I let my friends do that without me. As far as helping people move I have helped plenty of people move when your 6'2 and built like an athlete helping people move kinda just happens and to be honest until I started hrt lifting stuff has never been a problem so helping people move was really no problem.

Yeah I think even if you were FAAB people would ask you. I know plenty of women who are 6' and over and I'm sure people would ask them before me as I'm like 5'6-5'5 though people say I look like I'm 5'4. BTW, you're looking great and getting pretty in your avatar! I've been meaning to tell you.

UGH! Strip clubs. My inner feminist has always SCREAMED at the idea and I have never been to one.

Though this may have something to do with having three younger sisters and always being REALLY irritated by the idea that they would have less opportunities than me.

Rosie.

Gender roles in general disgust me to be honest. It's nothing but a means by which women are suppressed for the benefit of men.

And really, I've been a pretty solid blend of 'masculine' and 'feminine' since early childhood, so yeah.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 29, 2013, 04:25:31 PM
Yeah I think even if you were FAAB people would ask you. I know plenty of women who are 6' and over and I'm sure people would ask them before me as I'm like 5'6-5'5 though people say I look like I'm 5'4. BTW, you're looking great and getting pretty in your avatar! I've been meaning to tell you.

Thank you I've kinda gotten to a weird point in my transition were I can still pass as a guy but when present myself in girl mode I'm almost passing or at least I have been told that. Your pretty lucky if I was your size I doubt I would be able to pass as a man anymore either. All the photos you've posted I can't see a guy in any of them and I can't even tell your height either. So combine your feminine face and your smaller frame I doubt you'll ever be able to pass as a man ever again congrats! Wow I just went way off the subject of this thread.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 29, 2013, 12:51:58 PM
The main thing I hate about hanging out with a group of men is the sex talk. It makes me really uncomfortable. I usually just say something like "awesome" or "high five" or "you're the man." Most guys prolly think/thought I am gay.

Exactly...

And...
I spent a lot of time with boys in my childhood. Mostly because I have hobbies like pc gaming, cycling, electronics, science things that most of girls unfortunately doesn't like to talk about (exceptions are rare, I don't know why... ). However when there was a situation where I should show some male agresivity i.e. some fights I always failed(I simply did nothing just waited and can't do any defence)  and even cried. And I wasn't  good in any sports. My high school was a hell because of those incompatibilities.