if one has enough bone to burr away - is it safe to assume the results of a burring procedure will be sufficient in feminization of the forehead? I am having SRS w Mcginn and she said she could do my forehead too - she gave me an order for an xray to make sure that it can be done. My question is about whether or not to do it with her - as she can lump the two procedures together thus saving cost and also # of times I have to undergo anesthesia. Alternatively I could go to Spiegel and pay $12,000 (mcginn is $7,300) and get reconstruction. As someone with little money who is saving for this surgery...obviously the cheaper one is better, but I have no interest in skimping on this work. I don't want an unnatural flat forehead either - so part of me says burring is best option....what do you think?

Oh muffin!!!
You definitely don't need rconstruction..

Maybe if your a type 3
Which your not...most of the type 2 can get away
With burring  and some contouring ...

Quote from: xchristine on June 29, 2013, 07:02:05 PM
Oh muffin!!!
You definitely don't need rconstruction..

Maybe if your a type 3
Which your not...most of the type 2 can get away
With burring  and some contouring ...

I haven't heard anything about these Types. Do you happen to know where there might be some info which describes them?

Thanks!

Usually some doctors give you the detaisl...
Lets just say modern man is usually a type 2
And cave man forehead...the sloped back ones. 
Type 3

Let's look at some female profiles in silhouette

What do you consider 'an unnatural flat forehead?'

I dunno...a super flat look...Mcginn told me she had a reconstruction and that her forehead is TOO flat...I thought she looked great but I saw what she meant.

They use liquid bone...
They can apply mote than necassary
And shape what is thwre to what is needed
And an expensive ffs dont mean better...
The best pictures are usually very young transitioners
But st the same time subtly can go a long ways...

Reconstruction....you can be set back to far...
Contouring and remodelling...is fluid...
Your ahead of most of us
And forehead is the biggest facial gender marker

Reconstruction means you can have a sinus head ache
For life.  Aka DiMaggio.....or you can get contouring
And remodelling and have that feminine curvature.
For less pain....

Di.  All you need is a shaving and rhinopalsty with wiers....

Your photos are not dead on and are off angle slightly. This is tough to get done exactly by oneself. This is exaggerating the glabella, the bone between the eyes. You may be able to get away with just burring. Of course, it depends on the thickness of the bone covering the sinuses. What they can do is thin the bone by burring enough so that it become pliable and can be pushed back further.

I know what McGinn is relating to when she says too flat. But you should be able to ask the surgeon to not be so aggressive.

Quote from: Nicolette on June 30, 2013, 04:05:57 AM
Your photos are not dead on and are off angle slightly. This is tough to get done exactly by oneself. This is exaggerating the glabella, the bone between the eyes. You may be able to get away with just burring. Of course, it depends on the thickness of the bone covering the sinuses. What they can do is thin the bone by burring enough so that it become pliable and can be pushed back further.

I know what McGinn is relating to when she says too flat. But you should be able to ask the surgeon to not be so aggressive.

On yea....I agreed to a point....
Not always geometry works with face.....
I have a smaler jaw than a lot famois
Actors.....

In reality we can beat them hands down...
It's our life or w very bad ending ....

Everyone incudinf my self wanted
Reconstruction....
For nothing....have you ever seen a type
2:3
In other words Spiegel Zuk..oust...all of them will.
Say the same thing..what your going to get
Is a dremel on your skull....rest is liquid bone

Very very few so different. 
And thank god. ..its gotta do
Somethijgb to contour a forehead ..
Especially by breakinf it I to tiny peices

All that to give uou what uou need
If yourr not type 3..let tj doc work...
It else ....

Quote from: xchristine on June 30, 2013, 06:30:04 AM
On yea....I agreed to a point....
Not always geometry works with face.....
I have a smaler jaw than a lot famois
Actors.....

In reality we can beat them hands down...
It's our life or w very bad ending ....

Everyone incudinf my self wanted
Reconstruction....
For nothing....have you ever seen a type
2:3
In other words Spiegel Zuk..oust...all of them will.
Say the same thing..what your going to get
Is a dremel on your skull....rest is liquid bone

Very very few so different. 
And thank god. ..its gotta do
Somethijgb to contour a forehead ..
Especially by breakinf it I to tiny peices

All that to give uou what uou need
If yourr not type 3..let tj doc work...
It else ....

Your stanzas flow in beautiful poetic style
The meaning of which elude me
Somewhere here or there I glimpse
Impressions of intent and meaning
But fear my ineptitude to appreciate
Your wisdom and understanding

Hi Princess Di,
There is no easy answer to your questions. Your photos show quite signficant brow bossing but to know if reconstruction is necessary, you would need an X-Ray of your frontal sinus which is the part that  is rebuilt when forehead reconstruction surgery is done. The X-Ray allows the surgeon to evaluate the thickness of frontal sinus wall and thus understand how much burring can  be done safely with making the frontal sinus wall too fragile.

To learn more about all of this, I would recommend you read "Facial Feminization Surgery" by Doug Ousterhout, the "Daddy" of FFS. On page 41 of the book he says the following:

"A type III approach tackles the frontal sinus, which appears in 95 percent of all people, and the masculine projection of the forehead, which in nearly every male, extends well beyond any female projection. The great majority, some 82 percent, of my forehead feminizations are type III operations. I've performed it in more than 750 MtF patients and many other non TG people as well."  

I had a type III reconstruction done and, where any doubt exists about the thickness of the frontal sinus wall, most of the FFS surgeons go down this road. The only notable exception I am aware of is Dr Z in Chicago.

Hope that helps and wishing you all the best.
Donna

Honestly, i don't think you need forehead work at all. I've seen plenty of women with your type of forehead bone, in fact i actually think it's the norm.
I also know what you mean with the "too flat forehead". I've already had ffs including forehead bone reduction, and if i compare my forehead with my previous one, i think i already had a forehead in the female range. But i wouldn't want to miss it because my face was way too masculine in other factors and still is in my eyes, so the flat forehead kind of diminishes that.

Quote from: PrincessDi on June 30, 2013, 01:24:24 AM
I dunno...a super flat look...Mcginn told me she had a reconstruction and that her forehead is TOO flat...I thought she looked great but I saw what she meant.

Where btw did McGinn had her FFS?

Quote from: aibeecee on July 01, 2013, 01:42:42 AM
Where btw did McGinn had her FFS?

Dr. Ousterhout

Quote from: PrincessDi on June 29, 2013, 06:45:27 PM
if one has enough bone to burr away - is it safe to assume the results of a burring procedure will be sufficient in feminization of the forehead? I am having SRS w Mcginn and she said she could do my forehead too - she gave me an order for an xray to make sure that it can be done. My question is about whether or not to do it with her - as she can lump the two procedures together thus saving cost and also # of times I have to undergo anesthesia. Alternatively I could go to Spiegel and pay $12,000 (mcginn is $7,300) and get reconstruction. As someone with little money who is saving for this surgery...obviously the cheaper one is better, but I have no interest in skimping on this work. I don't want an unnatural flat forehead either - so part of me says burring is best option....what do you think?

I don't think you need reconstruction. My issue with reconstruction is the whole removal of the frontal sinus bone and its reattachment. The brain is right under there remember... Scary. If I was going for reconstruction Dr. O or Dr. Spiegel would be my choices.

I remember reading that Type 1 patients, for which burring is indeed an option - i.e. they have very small bossing,  are about 10% of total patients. Besides, only doctor can tell You that, after he or she has seen Your x-ray. Even if You might have a small bossing but Your bone is not very thick, then burring might cause You problems - like Donna Elvira said in her post. I cant see Your profile right now, because my office filter cuts all pictures on this forum, but I will take a look later.
I was looking at this site, basically
http://facialfeminization.eu/procedures/forehead-recontouring/
I hope that I could qualify under Type 1 too, because I have a bit of brow bossing - well, it would be surprising if I would not . Sometimes I do not see it at all, but sometimes - especially when shadows fall on my face I fell I look like neanderthal .

Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 08:29:19 AM
I remember reading that Type 1 patients, for which burring is indeed an option - i.e. they have very small bossing,  are about 10% of total patients. Besides, only doctor can tell You that, after he or she has seen Your x-ray. Even if You might have a small bossing but Your bone is not very thick, then burring might cause You problems - like Donna Elvira said in her post. I cant see Your profile right now, because my office filter cuts all pictures on this forum, but I will take a look later.
I was looking at this site, basically
http://facialfeminization.eu/procedures/forehead-recontouring/
I hope that I could qualify under Type 1 too, because I have a bit of brow bossing - well, it would be surprising if I would not . Sometimes I do not see it at all, but sometimes - especially when shadows fall on my face I fell I look like neanderthal .

Hi Sammy,
From what I can remember, your bossing is not as pronounced as Princesse Di's and even her's is not that pronounced. However, regarding the face, a smooth gently curved forehead is one of the most significant gender markers there is and for most of us, if any FFS procedure is worth doing, forehead recontouring nearly always comes top of the list.
Also, at the risk of repeating myself, unless bossing is absolutely minimal, the only way to know if frontal sinus reconstruction is necessary is to do a skull X-Ray.
Last detail, there are plenty of surgeons who master Type III reconstruction, Ousterhout, Spiegel, DiMaggio, Pimentel, Cardenas, Simon/Capitan, Van de Ven, Van der Dussen.... Of this list, Ousterhout and Spiegel are by far the most expensive, easily twice as costly as any of the South American surgeons and also much higher than the European surgeons.
Warm regards.
Donna

P.S. For those expecting extraordinary things from HRT, don't expect it to have any impact on brow bossing...