Trans women are women, my feelings for trans women in general are the same as my feelings towards women in general. Some are cool, some are crummy, some are okay.

I also agree that trans women are no different than 'regular' women. That said, all the annoying crap women do ... trans women do it, too. I've had personal experience with two trans girls. Both of them were obnoxiously immature and self absorbed and very catty. I didn't think much about it because they were behaving like most girls their age (teenagers) do.

I think having friendships with mature MTFs work out a lot better than cis women because they've experienced things from both sides of life.

Quote from: randomroads on July 01, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
I also agree that trans women are no different than 'regular' women. That said, all the annoying crap women do ... trans women do it, too. I've had personal experience with two trans girls. Both of them were obnoxiously immature and self absorbed and very catty. I didn't think much about it because they were behaving like most girls their age (teenagers) do.

I think having friendships with mature MTFs work out a lot better than cis women because they've experienced things from both sides of life.

I LOLed!!!
So a girl is entirely differant...
On the other hand. ..men are egocentric...quick to assert dominance
Over girl....more prone to fighting hehehe

And usually oblivious to the needs of thier romantic interest

Some posts in this thread make me feel all warm and fuzzy .  You guys are awesome!

Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 06:04:04 PM
/makes mental note/ Need more exclamation marks!!! Yay !!!11!

There are topics on the boards, somewhere, about feminine versus masculine writing styles, and also about handwriting.

Feminine communicators tend to use a lot more emoticons too.

Quote from: xchristine on July 01, 2013, 09:30:13 PM
I LOLed!!!
So a girl is entirely differant...
On the other hand. ..men are egocentric...quick to assert dominance
Over girl....more prone to fighting hehehe

And usually oblivious to the needs of thier romantic interest

Men who are quick to assert 'dominance' over anyone aren't asserting anything but their own lack of self confidence. It's a front they put up, just like a cat will puff its tail up to look bigger when it feels threatened.

I pride myself on being oblivious to women's romantic needs. Gay men don't involve themselves with females unless they're in denial or experimenting!

Quote from: Shantel on July 01, 2013, 07:42:01 PM
Simon, I think that yours and jossef-ftm's comments are really nice and kind of uplifting, I've often felt the same way about FtM's but I've noticed that generally when I complement someone or say something nice to someone on an FtM thread it get's totally ignored as if someone had farted in a crowded elevator.

I very rarely go into the MTF forum because I kinda figure it's a space for the women to connect with each other. I think in here it depends on the scope and tone of the discussion if guys are receptive to a woman's input. In the "do I pass" threads I tend to believe that others think there is some ultra sensitivity towards each other going on. So some may not fully believe when someone tells them they pass because the cis world tells them different. Then again some guys just aren't very chatty, I dunno. I do know that nothing is meant to be derogatory by their silence.

Quote from: randomroads on July 01, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
I also agree that trans women are no different than 'regular' women.

They are different from cis women. We are different than cis men. Now don't misread what I am saying. We are not "less than" cis individuals. If anything I think we're better than them (yeah, that's right...I said it) because we have a unique perspective on life and gender. Many of us also don't have family backing us on this. It makes us really strong.

That's very true, Simon, but superficially, when I know someone's an MTF I don't really perceive her as any different unless she's a very awkward person. There's only been one trans woman that I know for sure was trans (she told me) and she still had a long way to go to pass socially even if she was very pretty. If I had the time to get to know the women I've been around I'm sure I'd pick up that they are different. The teenagers that I was around behaved just like any other teenager. All teenagers go through learning who they are. I didn't know the two girls well enough to know more than that but of course they had an extra element to deal with.

My gf is mtf. I have other friends in the group. We aren't as close as the transguys are, but I suppose it is natural.


--Jay

I have a deep and profound respect for them.

In my experience, Gender Dysphoria is the same for both FtMs and MtFs: our deep-seated discomfort might be triggered by different things, but the feeling is the same for us. But I do believe that society (at least, Western society) makes it much more difficult to start out physically male then gradually transition to female, than it does to start out physically female then gradually transition to male.

For a pre-T, pre-surgery FtM, most people would probably just write us off as a 'butch lesbian'. We might get the occasional nasty 'look' from people in public, but they are few and far between - at least, here in the UK.

But in many cases, a pre-HRT, pre-FFS MtF who finds it difficult to pass is subjected to horrible treatment wherever she goes. Many of them have to put up with constant 'looks', stares, pointing, laughing and even violence, simply for having the audacity to step out of the front door & go about their business.

And yet, despite being forced to put up with that level of harassment, they still have the courage to hold their heads high and proudly assert themselves as the women they are. And once they've completed their transition, the adversity they faced along the way has given them a strength of character that few other women could hope to match.

Yeah, I think they're just grand.

Quote from: xchristine on July 01, 2013, 09:30:13 PM

I LOLed!!!
So a girl is entirely differant...
On the other hand. ..men are egocentric...quick to assert dominance
Over girl....more prone to fighting hehehe

And usually oblivious to the needs of thier romantic interest

Christine, this is about the millionth post of yours stereotyping men (though mild in comparison to some of your others), and I'm going to kindly ask that you stop. If the men you date are oblivious to your needs and treat you like an orifice (as referenced in your sex posts), you're dating the wrong men.

As to the OP, I love trans women. I never felt comfortable with women until I came here and developed friendships with many of you. It probably has something to do with not being judged as much as I was used to and feeling like I can speak freely. Though I'm starting to meet some great cis women friends as well!

I don't feel anything particular about trans women as a group. It depends on the individual same as with cis women.
Thank you, FA.

its' a very general question.

For me there just women so its up to each person how I feel about them. I guess only negative point would be I feel mtf got more bitch fights than the typical ftm which I have meet, and I think its because MtFs often tend to be in pretty serious problems, like homelessness, violance and stuff like that, where for ftms I just think its more the whole "being visible and mention" who can be a problem.

on the other hands I like speaking emotion topics with many mtf where ftms often seams more interesteed in stuff like where to get homones, bla bla bla thing. Also join the Mtf bord often for that reason.

it seams pretty generalized but yeah as said its up to each person. I prefern when its a mix of ftm-mtf and other trans*folks.
I think most ftms are positive about mtf even when I know a few ignorants who did not like to hang out with mtfs cause it could out there transstatus.

Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 02:16:28 AM
This one is very sweet and cute

Sure. Thanks for sharing the link.

barbie~~

Quote from: Jamie D on July 01, 2013, 09:49:48 PM
There are topics on the boards, somewhere, about feminine versus masculine writing styles, and also about handwriting.

Feminine communicators tend to use a lot more emoticons too.

As I can write English as my second foreign language, I also have been interested in expressing their gender identity in both English and Korean.

Let me say Korean, as it is my native language and more contrasting in gender expression. The Korean language is nuance-oriented, and it is very easy to express your emotion, gender and your age, even without using emoticons or various symbols. An interesting thing I found was that some cis-women tend to try to write in scientific, objective and masculine style, while m2f women tend to intentionally write in feminine way.

Cis-women probably do not feel any need of expressing their femininity in writing. By writing in feminine style, their articles or short essays can easily loose their authenticity. Thus most female writers in newspaper write in more masculine style.

However, in facebook or other SNSs, both men and women tend to write more emotionally, expressing their gender identity easily, but no significant difference in writing style. There are many onomatopoeic words that mimic sounds of women's laugh, but women infrequently use those words in SNSs. It is probably partly because they can express their gender identity by their profile pictures and others. I sometimes try to write in slightly feminine style, but most cis-women would not need to do so.

In English, I do not know well how to write in feminine way. Usually I have written English in scientific style, because I have to publish my papers in scientific journals.

barbie~~

People are people. Why characterise them?

Some of my best friends are human!!! ? !!!! (some innate biological urge drove me to that??!! !!!)

Quote from: barbie on July 02, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
As I can write English as my second foreign language, I also have been interested in expressing their gender identity in both English and Korean.

Let me say Korean, as it is my native language and more contrasting in gender expression. The Korean language is nuance-oriented, and it is very easy to express your emotion, gender and your age, even without using emoticons or various symbols. An interesting thing I found was that some cis-women tend to try to write in scientific, objective and masculine style, while m2f women tend to intentionally write in feminine way.

Cis-women probably do not feel any need of expressing their femininity in writing. By writing in feminine style, their articles or short essays can easily loose their authenticity. Thus most female writers in newspaper write in more masculine style.

However, in facebook or other SNSs, both men and women tend to write more emotionally, expressing their gender identity easily, but no significant difference in writing style. There are many onomatopoeic words that mimic sounds of women's laugh, but women infrequently use those words in SNSs. It is probably partly because they can express their gender identity by their profile pictures and others. I sometimes try to write in slightly feminine style, but most cis-women would not need to do so.

In English, I do not know well how to write in feminine way. Usually I have written English in scientific style, because I have to publish my papers in scientific journals.

barbie~~

Interesting

I think for myself, my writing style depends on how I am thinking when I go to write about the subject, and will therefore vary by the type of subject.   When I am writing about something that is hard or complicated where I have to turn on the analytical side of my brain to think it through, my writing style probably comes across stilted and masculine-ish, stilted because that is not the default way my mind is rolling along, but for anything else I do go to the default which is (probably?) feminine.  On a site like this where I am often having to think deeply, but also am relating equally on a personal levels in other topics I am sure I use both styles a lot.  Idk if that jarring or not, but I bet it might be.  Y'all would have to tell me I guess.  I just write however feels natural.

Depends on the lady. *shrug* 

Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 04:55:38 PM
I don't think anything... they're just people.  The only emotion I can recall being sparked by trans women as a collective group of people was irritation at their typing style, which is exactly the same irritation I get when I read status updates from cis women on facebook.  Then it makes me realise just how deep being trans goes, and it's comforting to know it's in our subconsciousness and not just our heads.

Yes, I have a writing style. And honestly, you're not the first to notice this. When I was still living as male and first got onto the internet, even with a gender neutral name, people would assume I was female based on how I type. I can't help the way I type, it's just who I am

I do think that the extra level of understanding is one of the best things between us. it's a great foundation to start building a meaningful relationship on. 

Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 04:55:38 PM
Then it makes me realise just how deep being trans goes, and it's comforting to know it's in our subconsciousness and not just our heads.

I noticed this too when first reading the forums. It also helped me come to terms with the fact this is an actual biological issue that really exists.