Ever know one of those people that you can't tell anything to without them automatically having to contest the information you're trying to give them? Yeah, I have an online friend I've talked to for about a year or so now who is like that.

He constantly goes in between being FTM and genderqueer. I'm cool with that. What bugs me is he goes to a clinic that not only allows but supports him treating hormones like it's a toy. He was on hormones for around a year but then quit because he started getting hair in places he didn't want. Then he was off T for awhile and living genderqueer. Now his therapist has approved him taking T once every five weeks or so. He feels completely unbalanced and I try to tell him it's because he is constantly throwing his system out of whack about once a month.

Has anyone else heard of anyone being permitted to take hormones at such a strange interval (he is pre hysto)? Would it cause any adverse physical effects? Yeah, I'm not the guy's daddy but I feel like the therapist who is okaying this may be doing a disservice to his mental (possibly physical) well being without him really realizing it. If I could find any evidence to show him about this I will and then he can at least make a informed decision about it.

This isn't about being "more trans" than someone else or whatever...before anybody even goes there. I will openly admit that I don't like it when people use hormones like a designer drug. Trying to tweak it just to get certain effects and avoid other physical ones. I don't understand that but I do care for my friend and his well being.

I have never heard of such a thing, and I suspect that it wouldn't work for very many people, if any. Unless his therapist is an M.D., I don't see where he or she gets off making such a recommendation. No wonder you are concerned. Considering the half-life of T, I should think that intervals of two weeks would be the outside limit for most guys, although I do know one guy who is pretty stable on a three-week interval. He's the only one I've ever heard of like that; everyone else I know who injects does it weekly, biweekly, or three times a month.

I wish I had some data or a scholarly journal to offer you, but I don't.

Um... who is his doctor? Conrad Murray?

In all seriousness, I'd be concerned that a therapist was allowing him to play Russian roulette with hormones. That's not a therapist's job: it's an endocrinologist's job. I'd also be worried about what these weird hormone spikes would be doing to him. I'd recommend pushing him to see an endo to have this checked out.

No wonder his emotions are all over the place: it must be like swinging from roid rage to PMS and back again... 

Quote from: FTMDiaries on July 02, 2013, 06:01:07 AM
Um... who is his doctor? Conrad Murray?

His clinic doesn't sound too cool, either. What is the relationship between therapist and clinic?

I'm all for people's finding the right dose and interval and all that. If it means no T at all, I'm fine with that. But if this guy is all messed up, shouldn't both the therapist and the clinic want him to find a dose and interval that make him stable? Or is he not being honest with them?

I've known a few guys who were not honest about their health or their habits when they went on T, and that concerns me. It puts those guys under increased risk and opens up their clinic and/or therapist to lawsuits. None of that is good for anybody. But my immediate concern is this guy and the people around him.

Sometimes you have to just step back and let people do what they're going to do, especially if the PTBs are making it easier for them to do that.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on July 02, 2013, 06:01:07 AM
Um... who is his doctor? Conrad Murray?

^Good one. 

He lives a couple hours from me and goes to a gender clinic where the therapist works hand in hand with the doc from what I understand. It's actually a clinic for underprivileged trans folks. He has to attend group once a week and then he is eligible for hormones.

Quote from: Arch on July 02, 2013, 12:20:41 PM
Sometimes you have to just step back and let people do what they're going to do, especially if the PTBs are making it easier for them to do that.

I know, just thought maybe someone in here had some concrete evidence that I could share with him. He is a couple years older than me physically but his maturity is a bit stunted. I think that might be a reason they're so relaxed with letting him make these choices. Again...I dunno. 

Wow. He is probably wrecking his system.  I am all for gender queer freedom etc - but all he is doing is putting himself on the pseudo-menopause roller coaster over and over again.

I couldn't find anything that specifically addressed the importance of consistency or anything, unfortunately.  There is just not yet enough published research on this topic. From what I saw with a cursory google scholar search, all of the medical journal articles are broad overviews of the hormone treatment process for the most part. None of them take into account the fact people may want to go off and back on.

Oh man. That's pretty bad. It's one thing to let someone start hormones and then stop them later on when they are happy with where they are at, but this...yeah. I don't think any of us could comment specifically on how it would effect one's health long-term, since we don't even know exactly how T will affect someone even when taken properly, but I am not surprised that he is having these mood swings and whatnot.

I'm going to be honest, I seriously question how this therapist can even be practicing. Besides the fact that this may affect the person's health, taking hormones at a "low" or spread out dosage isn't going to stop or prevent body hair growth and promote the changes this person desires. It'll just prolong the body hair growth AND the changes this person wants, so if it's in their genes to get body hair, that's still going to come in.

I just get really PO'd when people don't even think about science.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on July 02, 2013, 06:01:07 AM
Um... who is his doctor? Conrad Murray?

I was gonna say Dr. Nick Riviera, but yeah, Conrad Murray is funnier.

Quote from: Arch on July 02, 2013, 01:49:14 AM
Considering the half-life of T, I should think that intervals of two weeks would be the outside limit for most guys, although I do know one guy who is pretty stable on a three-week interval. He's the only one I've ever heard of like that; everyone else I know who injects does it weekly, biweekly, or three times a month.

I injected T every 3 weeks for about 2 months? My levels were really high, but I'm moody, get nervous easily and can't sleep. I'm getting back to biweekly shots. 5 weeks sounds more worse. Was it your freind's wish to take T like that?

Quote from: Jared on July 02, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
Was it your freind's wish to take T like that?

Yep, he admittedly has a fear of aging and I think besides the body hair that's his issue. Granted T does age us quickly in the first five years or so but I try to explain to him that it is just making us appear as our biological age as men. I think it's his way of slowing down that aging process. He's in his mid 30's and his interests and clothing choices more mirror someone in their teens.

Weird. I feel like this method, not being stable makes me feel older than I really am. Mentally of course.
I have an MTF friend who has had her SRS and not on hormones. So I can relate to your feelings, I also tried to explain it's dangerous. She fears she might have a heart attack.

Quote from: Jared on July 02, 2013, 04:29:12 PM
I have an MTF friend who has had her SRS and not on hormones.She fears she might have a heart attack.

If she has had an orchie does she have any hormones in her? T is much more likely to increase heart disease, not E. I would think she hasn't got much to worry about in that department and just needs a doc to follow her.

Quote from: Simon on July 02, 2013, 05:12:07 PM
If she has had an orchie does she have any hormones in her? T is much more likely to increase heart disease, not E. I would think she hasn't got much to worry about in that department and just needs a doc to follow her.

No she doesn't have any hormones in her. That's why I worry about her. She has been to one doc who wasn't trans friendly or just friendly at all and since this she don't want to go to another. I had no idea she isn't in hormones until it came up in a conversation, I was shocked how she looks and sounds like without HRT. I thought she's on hormones at least 3 years, but no.

Tell your friend to either stay on T and get laser hair removal, or just leave it alone altogether. He's going to age in an awful way if he keeps playing around with his hormones like that.

Everything about this is just madness. And those "doctors" are so unprofessional.

It's insulting that there are people all over the world who don't get the privilege of hormone therapy, and here this guy is taking them like they're aspirin. No ->-bleeped-<- he's feeling unbalanced.

He needs to talk to a REAL therapist above all else. And lay off the hormones until he knows what the hell he even wants.

It's really tough to know what is going on between a doctor and patient without being either one of those people. I wouldn't try a diagnosis or assessment based on third hand information, but that's just me.