persona

Fakeness... I think, no, its not fake. Overcompensating - definitely. If You longed for something all Your conscious life and were expressly denied it on all levels due to some characteristics, which have been assigned to You by birth and which You could not change or challenge and then - SUDDENLY - it all does not matter anymore and You can be Yourself, express Yourself as You feel to be appropriate, smile from Your heart... Would not You grab at this opportunity with both hands, using it and sometimes even abusing? Initially, it could be quantity over quality, but as we all grow older and more knowledgeable, the quality shall prevail . Just my humble opinion

Honestly, I've been thinking there seems to be a bit of this here, moreso of late.  I feel some of it is from trying to justify what they are doing to themselves, some from insecurities and the rest just because humans tend to do some of that in any social situation whether they are trans, cis or whatever.

I immediately hate anything I write that is more than three sentences long because I feel like I used that many words because I either don't know wtf I'm talking about or I'm putting on airs.  So yeah, I see it a lot, in my own posts.  At least fakeness and sounding narrated, idk abt advice stuff or validating myslef or whatever.  Probably those too faik.

Quote from: Jen on July 02, 2013, 04:36:29 PM
I immediately hate anything I write that is more than three sentences long because I feel like I used that many words because I either don't know wtf I'm talking about or I'm putting on airs.  So yeah, I see it a lot, in my own posts.  At least fakeness and sounding narrated, idk abt advice stuff or validating myself or whatever.  Probably those too faik.

LOL Four sentences!  But I don't hate it.

But to the OP

Maybe I am the worst offender.  I don't lie to people, but I try to see the best in them.  I believe everybody, with the will, the dedication, and the patience, can make improvements in themselves.  Yeah, call me "Pollyanna."

Quote from: iiii on July 02, 2013, 04:50:27 PM
People need constructive criticism to better themselves... Otherwise it's just encouraging people to stay at where they are. Congratulating people on their progress is another thing though.

Constructive is the operative term, here. We get so much criticism of the other kinds that we tend to overcompensate here.

I'm prolly guilty of it to some degree, being fake or tailoring my history or maybe trying to appear more femme then I am when giving advice. A lot of it is prolly justification or reassurance to myself and just writing the words down makes me feel better? IDK sometimes I think I'm just gay and I should accept that. I even had a dream where a past gay lover came to me and was like "why are you doing this?". You need to accept yourself. But then again maybe not because my hypocrisy only goes so far.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 02, 2013, 04:59:39 PM
IDK sometimes I think I'm just gay and I should accept that.

Joanna I have that thought quite often actually I kinda wish I was as my mom calls it a normal gay. It would be so much easier and cheaper but unfortunately I'm not so its the hard road for me.

I think that many of us are really honest and trying to offer helpful critiques and uplifting advice and comments including TLC to many others who we all know live a socially isolated existence due to real and imaginary fears. I know for certain that many of us enjoy vicariously entering into the celebration of others who have experienced incredibly stunning transitions the likes of which most won't experience. What I find objectionable in a support forum is when someone continuously creates drama by making disparaging remarks to others concerning things that they have limited or no knowledge about due to limited real life experience, it undermines the intent of support and concern for others and only serves to create more pain.

Quote from: Shantel on July 02, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
I think that many of us are really honest and trying to offer helpful critiques and uplifting advice and comments including TLC to many others who we all know live a socially isolated existence due to real and imaginary fears. I know for certain that many of us enjoy vicariously entering into the celebration of others who have experienced incredibly stunning transitions the likes of which most won't experience. What I find objectionable in a support forum is when someone continuously creates drama by making disparaging remarks to others concerning things that they have limited or no knowledge about due to limited real life experience, it undermines the intent of support and concern for others and only serves to create more pain.

I'm with Shan, I see people supporting each other. Can't imagine why that looks like fakeness to you. Hugs, Devlyn

Well this is the Internet. There's going to be a certain amount of fakeness, right? I've come across a few whoppers on these boards.

But there's also an amazing amount of love, knowledge, and wisdom to be found here, well worth reading past the occasional tall tale.

I have had this discussion with a friend on a few occasions. He is transgender and he has complained about it more than I have. I try to stay out of these discussions because I am cisgendered but I can tell you that he has brought it up so you are not the only one.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 02, 2013, 05:41:02 PM
I'm with Shan, I see people supporting each other. Can't imagine why that looks like fakeness to you. Hugs, Devlyn

I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP is talking about honest/blunt criticism here, but more she is feeling a general phoniness that people seem to have sometimes?  I don't want to put words in her mouth...

I wonder if it's more the awkwardness of growing into a new role in life that is being noticed than people acting fake?

Quote from: Shantel on July 02, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
I think that many of us are really honest and trying to offer helpful critiques and uplifting advice and comments including TLC to many others who we all know live a socially isolated existence due to real and imaginary fears. I know for certain that many of us enjoy vicariously entering into the celebration of others who have experienced incredibly stunning transitions the likes of which most won't experience. What I find objectionable in a support forum is when someone continuously creates drama by making disparaging remarks to others concerning things that they have limited or no knowledge about due to limited real life experience, it undermines the intent of support and concern for others and only serves to create more pain.

Shantel how do you always have the right thing to say?

When dealing with people's experiences you can never really know how "real" it is but suffice it to say I hardly ever see much reason to believe that their experience isn't real.

@Jen

Quote from: so over you on July 02, 2013, 03:51:58 PM
Sorry if this is touchy but ...

Do you feel like there is a lot of fakeness/wishful thinking/overcompensating in the trans community?

I feel like, for example, in advice threads, a lot of people, rather than actually trying to give advice are trying to validate themselves or their insider girl knowledge or something.

Sometimes I feel like a lot of the things people say in the trans community just sound so... narrated? Not that I don't understand being insecure... I have probably been guilty of it on at least a few occasions too...

Anyway, I'm really sorry if this is taken as offensive, I'm not trying to be, I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this? Thanks

I'm not a doctor, but it seems obvious the O/P just sees herself reflected in others.

I think learning is a process with stages and this is just one of them, actually an advanced stage. I often see people acting like an expert on a subject and trying to teach people about it, when they really are more like almost-experts.  I would call it the fake it till you make it stage, which I actually think is the stage right before actually mastering the subj—after which they won't be bothered talking about it lol.

You will never see somebody do this unless they care deeply about the topic and are trying to have mastery over it.  That is kind of what I meant by awkwardness of learning a new role.  I know it seems annoying, but just have patience with peeps as they figure this all out .

Quoterather than misrepresenting life or past experience etc,

Not quite sure I get what you mean regarding support - but I do have this thing where I almost cringe reading 'trans childhood narratives' and such. Because it often comes off like someone saying because they cried as a little boy or weren't a total jerk that that has something to do with being trans. IE. having any human emotions or sensitivity = female. And it actually makes the writer come off as having a more masculine viewpoint - 'I wasn't a total neanderthal, so I must be a girl'. There are some similar ftms ones too - but that's usually referencing typical tomboy activities more common than not in cis girls. Few girly girls out there these days. It just seems like everyone's trotting out anything possible as reasons why they're trans when you find the same behaviors in most cis kids.

Not that they're misrepresenting their life per se, just ascribing meaning to it rife with stereotypes. I probably did it somewhat myself when I first came out, but it irks me. I've yet to read any trans history or life story that a ton of cis kids of the same bio sex don't also fit. With the possible exception of trans kids claiming to be the other sex. But I've heard gay men and women claim they did this as well.

Anyway, this whole trans narrative thing was pushed on us by the medical community so I don't blame anyone. Things were set up so we have to sort of prove we were always really male or female. When there's really no way to do that.
Hope that wasn't totally off topic.

QuoteActually, how I notice it mainly in the FTM community is like ways of speaking/ways of addressing people rather than misrepresenting life or past experience etc, like perfectly intelligent guys trying to sound a little more rough and so maybe intentionally avoiding sounding articulate. Also a lot of dude/man where it maybe feels more intentional than natural, but that one I can understand, like, feeling more able to relate to people in that way and wanting to more as a result?

It does seem like there's a bit more dudeing/bro-ing than normal. But I think some guys do it because it can feel validating to the new guys still getting addressed as female in RL.

Oddly, I went through a period of trying to sound more formal when I first came out. I notice this sort of 'gentlemenly trend' with some newly out guys. Anyway, I probably spoke a lot rougher before coming out, curse a lot less now - though that has a lot more to do with lifestyle at the time than transition.

Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 02, 2013, 08:09:47 PM
Anyway, this whole trans narrative thing was pushed on us by the medical community so I don't blame anyone. Things were set up so we have to sort of prove we were always really male or female. When there's really no way to do that.
Hope that wasn't totally off topic.

It does seem like there's a bit more dudeing/bro-ing than normal. But I think some guys do it because it can feel validating to the new guys still getting addressed as female in RL.

Oddly, I went through a period of trying to sound more formal when I first came out. I notice this sort of 'gentlemenly trend' with some newly out guys. Anyway, I probably spoke a lot rougher before coming out, curse a lot less now - though that has a lot more to do with lifestyle at the time than transition.

One thing I know for sure is after going a certain ways down the transition road I started getting strong congnitive dissonce looking back at my old self and that whole foreign persona being attached to me.  I had, and still have really, a really hard time reconciling that and it is hard to not adjust the narrative of my past so it matches my present, so they share the same trajectory kind of.  Because if I don't, I am stuck with that dissonance that is really uncomfortable.  I don't put total blame on the medical community, though they push it too.

I think we all go through various phases as we learn and grow during our individual journeys... At times we seek support and comfort and also in turn lend support and comfort to others

I believe most people are looking for 'All the right answers' but truly it is impossible for any one individual to obtain such a thing, that is why we form communities such as ours so we can discuss and find the answers together

It is important to give honest constructive advise and it is possible to give that advise without hurting another's feelings

The best advise I can give at this point is to be yourself and do people a solid in a kind and supportive manner

Those are my thoughts on the subject for now

Thank you

V M

Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 02, 2013, 08:09:47 PMIt does seem like there's a bit more dudeing/bro-ing than normal. But I think some guys do it because it can feel validating to the new guys still getting addressed as female in RL.

Might be for fun too. I know I find it fun to say, but that might just be me. Anyway, a cis friend (sort of) of mine repeatedly calls me "dude" to remind himself I'm a guy. It comes across as totally fake, but that may have to do with other behaviours. I'm rambling sorry.

The perceived "fakeness" or "overcompensating" may actually be exploring. I read a lot of people who pretended to be someone else before they came out. Maybe they're experimenting and figuring out how they like to present themselves. Am I making any sense?
Like FA, the stereotyping bugs me too though.