Malachite,

I saw where you studied the start of the church you attended and study drew you away rather than closer if I was reading these posts correctly. The same with some others.

I too found things wrong with doctrines of various churches I visited. I too was wondering about Christianity at times.

Rather than give up I would hope that some who are wondering would try what I did and see if it helps them. Remembering faith is the substance of things not seen.

Separate yourself unto the Lord and pray using a King James Bible.

By separate yourself I do not mean hide and quit your job or anything foolish. What I do mean is get the issues clouding your faith and judgment out of the equation. Get being transgender out of it. Get denominations out of it. Direct your focus fully on who the Lord is and what glorifies him. What his thoughts are and what pleases him. Sort of how John the Baptist said he must increase and I must decrease.

Pray and ask the Lord for wisdom and knowledge and understanding of his word in all that he wants you to know. Keep all of the other issues out of your prayers. Ask him to lead you through his word and direct all you do as well as think. As written the footsteps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord and he delighteth in his way.

Remember to keep transgender, church, denomination, male and female out of it. Keep your prayers fully on the Lord revealing who he is, what he fulfilled, how he is glorified and how his word applies unto you.

Above all be diligent and longsuffering. Scripture shows many didn't get help right of way. I'll use one individual for an example. It took him over 40 years to be healed. I am not referring to healing but just using this to show we have to be diligent for however long the Lord deems necessary.

As you go through scriptures that the Lord shows you or those which (for lack of better terminology) seem to stand out meditate on them. If you are truly honest and seeking the Lord's glory and guidance above all else and any person do not be surprised if you see things which many others do not see. Many times when you see things in the word of God that others don't see which glorify Christ (not yourself or any person) such as deeper revelations of who he is from the laws and prophets it strengthens your faith. Many times these things are revealed by the Holy Ghost and man's natural mind cannot pick them out.

Also, if you do not have it yet another thing to make a first priority is praying about receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues. This is something that the early church had in which the Spirit of God prays for things we as humans do not know to pray for. Things like deeper revelations of who the Lord is from his word or illnesses coming down the road that we don't know about but the Lord does. Try to make this a priority.

Lastly, I won't debate any of this as I don't have time. I already know that some will mock and some disagree. That is why I said do this and take your focus off everything except who the Lord is and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It isn't important for someone trying to hang onto their faith to seek out pro transgender or non transgender scripture or what church to attend. Naturally anything in favor such as an affirming church would be helpful but don't take your focus off building your faith. If you do it the way the Lord wants (not any biased man or church) the Lord will help you.

I wish you well with your faith.
If you have any questions send me a private message.
I guarantee you that even though I am cisgender I will not try to discourage you or "convert" you. I am more worried about the faith of people than their gender issues.

Take care.
Del

Quote from: Simon on December 26, 2012, 09:12:14 PM
I've struggled with Religion for as long as I can remember. I was raised in a very strict Southern Baptist home where it was demanded that I attended church four times a week (twice Sunday,Wednesday night,Friday youth group). I attended Christian Summer Camp and at one point I wanted to be a missionary.

As I grew up I developed a interest in studying Theology. I probably know more about different faiths than those who practice them. I've always been analytical and I think that may have been to my detriment. It's hard to believe in a God when the evidence points to the fact that there isn't one. The evidence concludes that despite wishful thinking, hopes, and prayers the sad fact is we are alone.

I desperately want to believe in God. I've tried multiple times to have faith without reasoning. I love the idea of Jesus Christ. I love the stories and to think that God himself came down to die for mankind's salvation is comforting. Being comforting doesn't make it true though.

Anyone else struggle with faith?

I've had two struggles with faith.  One is about the struggle to believe, but the other, the struggle to disbelieve.

The struggle to believe was about being gay, and implications for the faith I was born into--Greek Orthodox.  I didn't set foot in a church for 15 years, when I turned my back on the faith I was born into.  The social exclusion was brutal as a kid, angering as a young buck, and forgiven as a man.

The second struggle was about the struggle to disbelieve--fear.  'Hell', 'Lilith--are you possessed by' they cried, 'for you are gay!'  Abomination, Leviticus and all that.  'Repent!'  For this one, I've found the Faith to let go of the faith I was born into.

But - I've found a pathway and return to a Faith.  That follows by the core ideology of eclecticism and celebration of difference that has been about accepting myself, others, other cultures, religions and minority groups.  Celebration of Diversity, for me, means accepting that human beings tend to look to 'a' spirituality in a higher realm or experience of life.  Interfaith ideologies share notions about Love at their core.  I have a place for Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, The Tora (the Prophet to come) and all of them!  As this is the Christian section, a brief word on Jesus, that social dissident who loved and stood up for and defended the then minority groups.  Mary Magdalene, the poor, lepers.  A man who gave his life for others.  God's son and means for us to know self-sacrifice.  Isn't that what we hope for as minority groups?

All those things are aspirations and are beautiful.  I just quoted one of my favourites, in the teachings of Jesus:

Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her

Whether or not a Christian, they're beautiful words.  I summon them when I'm feeling alone, maligned, or judged, or when tempted to judge others.

Cheers
stav

Quote from: Del on June 25, 2013, 03:20:57 AM
Malachite,

I saw where you studied the start of the church you attended and study drew you away rather than closer if I was reading these posts correctly. The same with some others.

I too found things wrong with doctrines of various churches I visited. I too was wondering about Christianity at times.

Rather than give up I would hope that some who are wondering would try what I did and see if it helps them. Remembering faith is the substance of things not seen.

Separate yourself unto the Lord and pray using a King James Bible.

By separate yourself I do not mean hide and quit your job or anything foolish. What I do mean is get the issues clouding your faith and judgment out of the equation. Get being transgender out of it. Get denominations out of it. Direct your focus fully on who the Lord is and what glorifies him. What his thoughts are and what pleases him. Sort of how John the Baptist said he must increase and I must decrease.

Pray and ask the Lord for wisdom and knowledge and understanding of his word in all that he wants you to know. Keep all of the other issues out of your prayers. Ask him to lead you through his word and direct all you do as well as think. As written the footsteps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord and he delighteth in his way.

Remember to keep transgender, church, denomination, male and female out of it. Keep your prayers fully on the Lord revealing who he is, what he fulfilled, how he is glorified and how his word applies unto you.

Above all be diligent and longsuffering. Scripture shows many didn't get help right of way. I'll use one individual for an example. It took him over 40 years to be healed. I am not referring to healing but just using this to show we have to be diligent for however long the Lord deems necessary.

As you go through scriptures that the Lord shows you or those which (for lack of better terminology) seem to stand out meditate on them. If you are truly honest and seeking the Lord's glory and guidance above all else and any person do not be surprised if you see things which many others do not see. Many times when you see things in the word of God that others don't see which glorify Christ (not yourself or any person) such as deeper revelations of who he is from the laws and prophets it strengthens your faith. Many times these things are revealed by the Holy Ghost and man's natural mind cannot pick them out.

Also, if you do not have it yet another thing to make a first priority is praying about receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues. This is something that the early church had in which the Spirit of God prays for things we as humans do not know to pray for. Things like deeper revelations of who the Lord is from his word or illnesses coming down the road that we don't know about but the Lord does. Try to make this a priority.

Lastly, I won't debate any of this as I don't have time. I already know that some will mock and some disagree. That is why I said do this and take your focus off everything except who the Lord is and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It isn't important for someone trying to hang onto their faith to seek out pro transgender or non transgender scripture or what church to attend. Naturally anything in favor such as an affirming church would be helpful but don't take your focus off building your faith. If you do it the way the Lord wants (not any biased man or church) the Lord will help you.

I wish you well with your faith.
If you have any questions send me a private message.
I guarantee you that even though I am cisgender I will not try to discourage you or "convert" you. I am more worried about the faith of people than their gender issues.

Take care.
Del

Del,

Thank you for your comments.  Only five months ago, I would have flicked them aside, without 'reading the message between the words' by reading the words without seeing a light beyond them.  Jesus speaks through you--it's the blazing life in your words.  Your message is beautiful because you just want to reach out and call a fellow home to Spirit and Love of Spirit.  I have developed an appreciation of some Biblical materials, from an ancient tome that holds so much and so rich wisdom.  Much of the wisdom has stood the test of time.  May I share my story with you about how I found my way back to Faith.

When I was in great danger, in fact, when my life was in danger, and the reason for my hospitalisation after I was sexually violated by a man with dead eyes, and who could not see beyond himself--and 'I' with no love or sense of others--and also why I need genital reconstruction surgery, the only thing that saved me was Faith in a greater Order--in fact, Faith in the Spirit of Jesus--that was and is self-sacrifice, I guess.  By 'saved' -- I mean, had I not been able to access that kind of Faith, I might well have given up.  What was tested was belief in love and faith in human beings.  I'm not sure I'd still be alive.  For how can you have a will to live if you've lost faith in your fellows and feel so very alone and afraid of others.

I never, for one moment, during that terrible ordeal, felt abandoned by the Spirit of Jesus.  Was that a literal Spirit or a Faith in that kind of Self Sacrifice.  The atheists would say the latter, you the former.  And I say the distinction is irrelevant.  Jesus--was the experience--of a love so great, and of a forgiveness so vast, that I was able to get through the ordeal and without much trauma.  I lost two or three litres of blood--about half--and while I was alone as I bled, I was not alone, and I was with my Faith.  There was a moment I thought "oh my God, I'm not going to see my loved ones again".  I prayed.  A simple prayer "God--if I don't get to see anyone again--let love win.  Please let love win".  As I recall the prayer, I feel the same force invigorate me and flood my heart which was the Force with me and that sustained me during my trial.  Great beauty has come from tragedy for that simple Faith.

Its funny to me that an all poweferul god cannot be kind to everyone, whether they believe or not. Its just odd that he would require you to praise him in order for him to save you. How is he benefiting from people praising him. Maybe he has really bad self confidence or he's just a totaljerk.

God is kind to everyone, He offered a free way to salvation, its up to us to accept.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on July 29, 2013, 09:54:31 AM
God is kind to everyone, He offered a free way to salvation, its up to us to accept.

So if I was a child raised without the knolowdge of the existence of religion, I would not reach "salvation" ? I do not mean to offend anybody and impose my beliefs but come on, even if you are a believer, does none of this stuff bother you?

Sorry Amders, I'm not getting into that fight.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on July 29, 2013, 10:17:52 AM
Sorry Amders, I'm not getting into that fight.

That's okay. I respect your opinion. Have a nice day!

Quote from: AMDERS on July 29, 2013, 10:16:41 AM
So if I was a child raised without the knolowdge of the existence of religion, I would not reach "salvation" ? I do not mean to offend anybody and impose my beliefs but come on, even if you are a believer, does none of this stuff bother you?

Hi Ambers,

No, what the poster said doesn't bother me at all.  I love Christians who connect with Divine Love through their relationship with creation, and Jesus.  I was reared in a Christian family, then abandoned my faith as a hurt, rejected homosexual ejected from the Church.  I found spirituality in a broader context.  I found interfaith ministry, where all Faiths stand, so beautifully, and amazingly bright, next to each other.

And I found that when I placed them all juxtaposed, in that way, there was a great beauty in the shared feature of all religions--love.  The teachings of Jesus remain timeless, awesomely beautiful wisdom.  They're about self-sacrifice and love.  Whether or not one is 'religious', some of the wisdom, at least, of the ancient texts, the Bible, Koran, Torah - the three monotheistic religions - remain inspiring and are wonderful parables about human nature.

I've also found that ideas about faith are truly individualistic.  As such, I respect what you have written, and appreciate what you have said.  You don't offend my spirituality because your views on spirituality are just as beautiful to me.  'Interfaith' dialogue for me means 'take you as you come and let that person be'.  Love all.  Or do my best to.  Do my best to forgive quickly and fully.  Return to states of Grace, humility and appreciation as often as I can.  And - Awe - the sudden wide eyed flashes of wonder at the vastness of existence.  when you look at the starry sky, have a flash of existence where you suddenly realise how small we all are--a smudge on the face of a Universe so majestically vast that the experience blows past the boundaries of self.  And, have Faith in a higher order of existence beyond my capacity to every 'know' with my mind.  They are all Christian and human states and I believe states in other religions.

Sort of like 'the common thread in all humanity'.  I have an atheist friend.  He doesn't believe in anything other than science.  So, how I meet him is by talking about how he feels when he sees science bust the boundaries of 'knowing'.  Awe, of course, as he looks a the Hubble through the eyes of the scientist.  So, he and I both know awe.  And he doesn't call that 'God', but I do, but really, as I say to him, 'Sam, what's the difference--I see a flash of God when I look at a space through the Hubble and you see Awe, but what's the difference'.  He says 'yeah but I don't believe in a "teleological God stav, who said 'let there be light' and who existed before time", and I say "if God is all there is, the 'all of all things', then time runs backwards as it does forwards, and timelessness, as a concept is needed to sustain an argument about time and 'beginnings'.  I'm not going to speak to that, Sam, because I just don't know what 'all there is' really means.  What I do know of science though is that each time it finds a new frontier, that boundary is finite.  The boundary will move.  I suspect, infinitely.'

Infinite is a long way away from anything I can understand. 

Usually by then, he and I start laughing or pondering each other's worlds from the place where we join.  Awe is good enough for me.

Nice to meet you,

kind regards
stav

Quote from: AMDERS on July 29, 2013, 10:16:41 AM
So if I was a child raised without the knolowdge of the existence of religion, I would not reach "salvation" ? I do not mean to offend anybody and impose my beliefs but come on, even if you are a believer, does none of this stuff bother you?

Yes, it does. I believe in a Creator but not an intervening entity. If God was to intervene in every little thing in which we pray for, why do we have freewill in order to make our own choices? Why not let God call all the shots and be our puppetmaster? As for the salvation part and not having knowledge of religion though. I think we tend to lower God to our level of thinking way too often when we should be trying to raise our way of thinking to higher levels. I don't/can't understand God's mind or fully grasp the life after death issue, why children die and killers get off scott free, but that is breakdown of the human condition. What is a physical death when the Spirit will possibly live on and our physical bodies go back to being part of this planet?

Say Hypothetically that I am God. I create a number of Spirits (mankind) these spirits need a physical body to experience a material existance and through evolution nature, which I created the laws of such, allows for those bodies. What will be my main concern? The physical shell of the person or the Spirit in which I created? That Spirit is supposedly and possibly eternal so death is of no concern for that Spirit. Since I gave Freewill to those Spirits and the choices to make their own mistakes, why would I intervene and keep them from learning from mistakes made? In other words, why would I answer prayers when everything you need is in the realm of your abilities. In the mind of God and I believe it wholeheartedly, it is the Spirit or Soul that is nurtured and not so much the physical body because that belongs to the Earth. Physical death is seemingly so unfair when we don't and can't get the whole picture of how things really are. Life and death are the only nonvariables of the human condition. Everything in between we own.

Thanks for all the responses. I will take all of your insight and opinions into consideration. Have a wonderful Wednesday!

Seven months after starting this thread I've resolved myself to the fact that I'm happy being agnostic. I'll still look into various beliefs (currently studying Scientology) but I doubt I'll ever follow anything. I just find theology interesting.

Quote from: Simon on July 31, 2013, 04:05:43 PM
Seven months after starting this thread I've resolved myself to the fact that I'm happy being agnostic. I'll still look into various beliefs (currently studying Scientology) but I doubt I'll ever follow anything. I just find theology interesting.

I lost my faith there too for a while. But thankfully I found it again. I didn't find it again by studying a book or going to a church. I found it again by admitting to myself that I needed God in my life. So I prayed and when I did I discovered. I hadn't lost my faith I had just misplaced it. Simon God isn't a belief or a church or a book. If you want to find your lost faith check your heart I'm sure you'll find it there. 

Quote from: Heather on July 31, 2013, 05:04:14 PM
Simon God isn't a belief or a church or a book. If you want to find your lost faith check your heart I'm sure you'll find it there. 

Heather, thanks for the message.

I've just come to terms with being an analytical person. I've tried and I can't will myself into suspension of disbelief. Do I hope there is something after death? Of course, everyone wants to exist for eternity. I don't knock whatever someone else wants to believe but to me there is no proof.

Hmm and I thought coming here and openly saying that I have gender issues was hard.

First I want to say that a persons personal belief is important and should be respected as long as it doesn't cause harm to others. That being said I find myself disliking religion, I believe probably more harm then good comes from most faiths. I see religion as something that tells you what to believe and more importantly who to hate. I know that there are many good leaders but there are also many many bad ones too (I must admit Pope Francis is earning my grudging respect). On the other hand scientists that say as an undisputable fact that god does not exist quickly loose my respect, you can neither prove nor disprove that god exists.

In the end I believe if you don't believe in god but you try to make the world a better place and god does exist I think he'll look at what good you did to decide rather then listen to a hateful spiteful "preacher". If God doesn't exist then you will live on in the hearts of those who matter.

For those that are happy and supportive members of churches I do think that it is important that you find comfort in your beliefs, I just personally have a negative view towards organized religion.

Quote from: White Rabbit on July 31, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
Hmm and I thought coming here and openly saying that I have gender issues was hard.

First I want to say that a persons personal belief is important and should be respected as long as it doesn't cause harm to others. That being said I find myself disliking religion, I believe probably more harm then good comes from most faiths. I see religion as something that tells you what to believe and more importantly who to hate. I know that there are many good leaders but there are also many many bad ones too (I must admit Pope Francis is earning my grudging respect). On the other hand scientists that say as an undisputable fact that god does not exist quickly loose my respect, you can neither prove nor disprove that god exists.

In the end I believe if you don't believe in god but you try to make the world a better place and god does exist I think he'll look at what good you did to decide rather then listen to a hateful spiteful "preacher". If God doesn't exist then you will live on in the hearts of those who matter.

For those that are happy and supportive members of churches I do think that it is important that you find comfort in your beliefs, I just personally have a negative view towards organized religion.

I don't identify with institutionalised religions.  I don't see how God or just "The Universe" expect a sentient species to build buildings and politicised movements that presume to know all there is to know about The Universe.  I imagine that for other species on other homeworlds, a personified 'God' that looked like humans would appear rather humano-centric and embarrassing.

That's if that species 'feels' emotions as we do.  In which case I'm being 'humanocentric'.

Quote from: Simon on July 31, 2013, 04:05:43 PM
Seven months after starting this thread I've resolved myself to the fact that I'm happy being agnostic. I'll still look into various beliefs (currently studying Scientology) but I doubt I'll ever follow anything. I just find theology interesting.

I am glad you feel better about it all.  I went through that phase, and I am now very content without religion.  It's hard to separate oneself from it, but you have to believe what you believe to be true.

Please look deeply into scientology before going down that road.  I won't get into rhe beliefs, as everyone is free to believe what they want, but both the founder and current leader of the church have interesting pasts.  And the church uses questionable practices.  Having said that,  I hope you find whatever works for you.

Quote from: White Rabbit on July 31, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
Hmm and I thought coming here and openly saying that I have gender issues was hard.

First I want to say that a persons personal belief is important and should be respected as long as it doesn't cause harm to others. That being said I find myself disliking religion, I believe probably more harm then good comes from most faiths. I see religion as something that tells you what to believe and more importantly who to hate. I know that there are many good leaders but there are also many many bad ones too (I must admit Pope Francis is earning my grudging respect). On the other hand scientists that say as an undisputable fact that god does not exist quickly loose my respect, you can neither prove nor disprove that god exists.

In the end I believe if you don't believe in god but you try to make the world a better place and god does exist I think he'll look at what good you did to decide rather then listen to a hateful spiteful "preacher". If God doesn't exist then you will live on in the hearts of those who matter.

For those that are happy and supportive members of churches I do think that it is important that you find comfort in your beliefs, I just personally have a negative view towards organized religion.

Oh, we people who are transsexual and transgender are needlessly complicated, lol. I myself am an Anglo-Catholic (catholic Anglican).

I think the idea that religion of being by nature 'dogmatic' is a fairly recent view. Of course, the well known Abrahamic Faiths have a terrible international track record for spreading beliefs through more forceful means, but I guess I take 'religion' in its sociological, etymological and cultural meaning, in which it is a venerating cult of a deity, a value, or an object. There are non-dogmatic religions out there, such as Unitarian Universalism.

I guess I am at heart an agnostic theist, which means that I generally do not perceive my religiosity as a sign of blind belief, but of a cultural adherence and lifestyle based on some ancient narrative. Christianity has been part of my culture and family for several generations, and I interpret Christianity more symbolically than others. I think that this indescribable and universal Divinity, of whom Christians have only a very tiny understanding of, loves all things in the entire cosmos and universe, atheist or theist, plant or animal, gay or straight, etc.

After all, Christianity is a deeply symbolic culture and way of life, as an amalgamation of different religions of its period: the narrative of the Hebrew Scriptures, the philosophy and mystery religion of both Roman and Greek, the salvific theology of Mithraism, and the mythos of Zoroastrianism, contributing to this one new religion that united many tribes and cultures for its time period.

Religion can be personal, or it can be congregational. It can be liberally refreshing, or stiffly dogmatic. It all depends on its development, the environment of which it is fostered, and the exclusivity of its claims to life and lifestyle.

Quote from: AMDERS on July 29, 2013, 10:16:41 AM
So if I was a child raised without the knolowdge of the existence of religion, I would not reach "salvation" ? I do not mean to offend anybody and impose my beliefs but come on, even if you are a believer, does none of this stuff bother you?

As a faithful Christian^TM    I do not see Salvation as something as easy as sola fide, or faith alone. To me, salvation is something that we 'work with fear and trembling,' that is, it is something of which we earn, through good deeds. The narrative of the Resurrection of Christ is the pinnacle point of where we find Christ's love for humanity; that He, being an ensign of divine nature on earth, would humble Himself to give Himself to humankind, and because of His teachings of being kind to one another, He died for our own selfishness and egoism.

That being said, this Atonement ('Moral View of the Atonement'), this example of love for us on the Cross, becomes the climactic inspiration for us all to become better people, to follow His commandments of loving both the entire cosmic manifestation, and our neighbours as ourselves. "Very truly, I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just a single grain; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

Thus, Salvation is not a thing based on Faith, but that our Faith (application of this narrative of Resurrection, of Love giving itself to us, so we can give that Love to others) shows itself in works of mercy and charity, of doing good to others, and to practicing virtue in daily life. An atheist, therefore, can emself be very much engaged in salvation, perhaps much more than a Christian who does nothing to serve the less fortunate.

A child is thus saved by his or her own actions towards others: of being good, practicing virtue, and doing works of charity. That is why Christ died for me: to show me that the Love that we sacrifice upon others, is in itself salvific, and not in some emotional one-time literal acceptance of a supernatural event. All you need is love.

Catalina,
I enjoyed your answer kiddo.

The works we do manifest faith as James said faith without works is dead.

When we have faith and do the works it is as the fruit being seen on the outside of the tree.

Many are quick to say God looks on the heart as with Samuel and David but fail to realize that the fruit of the Spirit is manifested on the outside as well. We know a peach tree is a peach tree when we see the peaches. Even Jesus said from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

As I said, I enjoyed your answer.

May God bless.