Hello everyone,

As I've heard several opposite things, I'd like to clear up my mind.

What are the effect of taking pills of testosterone if you are a man ?
Could testosterone reduce the feeling of being a woman, for a man ?

I'm asking a lot of question about myself, and I would like to browse "all" the ways.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with my questions.

In advance, thank you to all.

If You are hoping that taking T or other androgens will make You stop feeling trans, then I have read that this does not work. Given that the hypothesis about issues of prenatal exposure to hormones is the main reason for GD later in life, that would actually make sense, because we do have that "original" female brain from that stage when we were a female fetus, it is wired as being female and T is not going to re-wire it to become a male brain.

They said that taking androgen could calm the dysphoria. I thought it works because of the effets on the brain.
And so, T could also have opposite effect on the brain. 

But I understand your explanation.

Sometimes, I fell very strange, and I would like to not have this feeling anymore.

Quote from: Samyra on July 05, 2013, 06:28:48 AM
Hello everyone,

As I've heard several opposite things, I'd like to clear up my mind.

What are the effect of taking pills of testosterone if you are a man ?
Could testosterone reduce the feeling of being a woman, for a man ?

I'm asking a lot of question about myself, and I would like to browse "all" the ways.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with my questions.

In advance, thank you to all.

I take testosterone supps, and can vary dose, and was born with testes, but don't have them now.  A lot of the effects are psychogenic (i.e. mind over matter).  A surge of the hormone makes gym easier, riding and exercise easier, and I find I'm more likely to go 'grrrr' at a red traffic light.  Also have periods where you get sexed up more than normal.....

About 'feeling like a man'.   When I lost my bollicks and the rest, at first I didn't feel as 'manly' as I used to.  A lot of shame.  Change rooms, and 'where's the bulge in my pants', and all of that.  Knowing they're missing is a psychogenic footprint, but it's weird, cause I know my mind's doing it.  I'm getting surgical replacements --

But, there's been an awakening as I've pondered what 'male' means at the psychological level.  I'm associating 'visual cues' and 'shape' with an experience of 'gender'.  Funny thing, no-one except me and anyone who knows what happened thinks twice.  Ya know also - the thought of having a 'bionic phallus' replacement (i.e. the whole prosthesis thing) - um - was an aphrodisiac!  Go figure.  That one's about an association of 'potency' with biological function of the phallus....

Mind over matter for all ...

It would likely work the wrong way-- make you feel more dysphoric (as Emily says it's more of a deep brain thing-- yes they effect the brain but perhaps not that deeply). The other thing for FTMs T makes you feel more the way you feel you should feel and anti-androgens make MTFs feel that way.

I'd gather that this was once a "treatment" for being trans btw. I often see this idea in the comments section (it's often one of the nicer ones sadly).

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on July 05, 2013, 03:49:05 PM
I'd gather that this was once a "treatment" for being trans btw. I often see this idea in the comments section (it's often one of the nicer ones sadly).

My mother said this one too - "Maybe instead of getting female hormones, he (yeah, I am still her "boy") needs a decent dose of androgens in his brain?"
That kinda did hurt more than the rest of things she said.

What is the difference between androgen and T ?

Quote from: Samyra on July 06, 2013, 06:58:50 AM
What is the difference between androgen and T ?

An androgen is the general term for any chemical, natural or synthetic, that is associated with generation and maintenance of male characteristics.  The term subsumes a group of compounds.

Testosterone is a specific androgen.

Thank you for this explanation. 

Quote from: Samyra on July 06, 2013, 08:16:18 AM
Thank you for this explanation. 

When I was being treated for depression, we discovered I had low testosterone. Easy fix, just get some androderm patches and my T levels will increase. I found that I could wear the patch for just a few hours before anxiety and an overall feeling of disgust took over.

This was before I knew I was trans.

Even though this was my experience, I'd think everyone would tolerate or reject any hormones in their own way, because it affects so much of the person.

As Testosterone increases the male sex drive the observed effect on most Male to Female transitioners is to hugely INCREASE the level of dysphoria and discomfort, in some cases to the point of suicide. This is because it is when sexually aroused that the person will become most acutely aware of the differences between their actual and desired sexual characteristics. This effect was observed by proper research into the condition conducted in the 1960's in the UK and indeed was part of the reason that such attempts at chemically reparative treatment was discontinued in that country.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on July 06, 2013, 10:22:38 AM
As Testosterone increases the male sex drive the observed effect on most Male to Female transitioners is to hugely INCREASE the level of dysphoria and discomfort, in some cases to the point of suicide. This is because it is when sexually aroused that the person will become most acutely aware of the differences between their actual and desired sexual characteristics. This effect was observed by proper research into the condition conducted in the 1960's in the UK and indeed was part of the reason that such attempts at chemically reparative treatment was discontinued in that country.

.....ah, I see makes sense.  When you need sexual contact the most, you'll become acutely more aware of differences between actual and desired sexual characteristics...

but I'm still struggling to understand:

As Testosterone increases the male sex drive the observed effect on most Male to Female transitioners is to hugely INCREASE the level of dysphoria and discomfort

Does testosterone rise in MTF, or falls.  I'd have imagined that it would fall?

Cheers
stav

Testosterone can be naturally high or low, depending on many factors--age, genetics, etc (the "normal" range for T in males is ~250--1100 (I forget the units, however) (In comparison, typical female T levels are about 70-90)). Some pre-HRT MtF's have quite high testosterone levels, but this does not make them "men", it makes them have physical male characteristics and the physical sex drive...which drives them NUTS (no pun intended). Others have quite low T levels...this is still bad though, because any significant T levels will change the pre-pubescent body to a male form, and confuse the mind in difficult ways.

Upon taking an anti-androgen (Spiro, etc) T levels typically fall dramatically. (Of course, one would not take an anti-androgen and T at the same time.)

Just my personal experience, but my dysphoria was at its absolute worst during my teenage years, when my T levels were at their natural highest. I HATED the sex drive, I HATED feeling angry all the time, I HATED how obsessive my mind became, and I HATED that it seemed to render me incapable of feeling the emotions that I felt like I should be having... there were many times where I was so sad, and I realized that I should be crying, and yet I couldn't.

Seeing as how MtF transsexualism has been tied to a lack of T exposure during fetal development, it's not a matter of correcting an adult hormonal imbalance, it's a matter of our brains never being hardwired to run on it in the first place.

All I know is that I felt 100% "right" in the head through my entire childhood. Once I entered puberty, for the first time, something felt "wrong." It didn't feel like my brain was working right anymore. There was always this feeling of "wrongness" in my head in regards to how my mind worked. And then, after 14 years of having that feeling of "wrongness," I went on T-blockers and E, and for the first time since I was a kid, I felt "right" in the head again. It finally felt like my emotions and thought patterns and the base "feel" of how my mind worked actually matched its genetic programming again.

You all have told us very rewarding stories. Thank you.
I do not think testosterone had such strong effects.

I fell like a girl, but I don't know if I am truly ready to change. I'm looking for others possibilities.
In my situation, take T seems not being the good solution.

I really learned a lot of things 

Quote from: Samyra on July 06, 2013, 05:45:09 PM
You all have told us very rewarding stories. Thank you.
I do not think testosterone had such strong effects.

I fell like a girl, but I don't know if I am truly ready to change. I'm looking for others possibilities.
In my situation, take T seems not being the good solution.

I really learned a lot of things 

There's a lot of possibilities that one could choose. Taking hormones and surgery are permanent, so they are the last things to consider.

Talk it over with a therapist, to rule out any other issues that might be clouding things...severe depression, etc. Then, do things very slowly, and at your own speed.

Some ideas:

Get earrings (pierced ears).
Grow your hair out.
Shave or wax body hair (arms, legs, chest, etc). Don't grow a beard or mustache (if you have one, shave it off).
Shape your eyebrows (threading or waxing).
Buy neutral or women's shoes (sandals, "flats", etc. Not high heels).
Buy a couple articles of women's clothes (capris, skirt, blouse...and underwear).

Try some or all of these things, see how well you adapt, if you feel comfortable with them. If you do, keep it. If you don't, stop. All of it is temporary and won't harm you if done. After all this...if you still feel like you're a girl...then seek out the possibility of hormones.

One step at a time.

Good luck!

Quote from: Samyra on July 05, 2013, 07:02:24 AM
They said that taking androgen could calm the dysphoria. I thought it works because of the effets on the brain.
And so, T could also have opposite effect on the brain. 

But I understand your explanation.

Sometimes, I fell very strange, and I would like to not have this feeling anymore.

f

Hi Samyra,

After reading all the replies, I have an idea.

I understand that dysphoria elevates as body testosterone rises (or as artificial supplements cause) rises.  One poster associated the elevation to peaks in T, sex drive, and the appearance of unwanted characteristics.  Another to in-utero under-exposure of T during gestation, and so the brain was never hard-wired to work with T.  Restoring childhood levels of T with T blockers and estrogen supps fixed things.

My idea should work for both theories.

Another poster pointed out that the body goes through big shifts in T, over time.  As I've lost my genitals in a terrible tragedy, I've been talking with my doctors, a lot about 'what levels' I should have and when, and what triggers changes in levels.

My idea is keep an eye out on how your feelings change as T rises and falls, naturally.  For bodily-produced T, there's about a 25-50% change in T over what they call a 'diurnal cycle' (day-night), then add in stress, hungriness, food types.  You should feel T spikes in the body, especially in connection with peaks in sexual arousal, drops when focussed on studies or a task that keeps you off thinking about human relations, and when hungry.  Some foods trigger the body more than others to make T, such as eggs.  Also--if you're confronted by a threat that gets you *angry* that triggers T release (to get you ready to 'do battle').  Fighting over territory (e.g. scaring off a neighbours cat that constantly comes at night and rats out your own cat, so you go in to do battle for your cat--that will trigger some too ).

Someone told you that T therapy would fix your feelings.  You may find out yourself by working with your body's rhythms.....that way, you don't have to go through extra terrible discomfort, through supplements, should your feelings worsen as your body's natural T peaks.....

Does this all make sense? 

Kind Regards
stav

Thank for your ideas Beth Andrea.

I've tried for one week now. I will see if it's enough for me. 
I really want to find what I really need.


Stavraky, I will keep a close eye on my testosterone level and my feeling. For sure, knowing this link on me will answers severals questions. 
Maybe, I will finally understand myself.


The easiest thing would be to take T and see, but it can be found in a super market. 

Quote from: Samyra on July 10, 2013, 09:23:01 AM
The easiest thing would be to take T and see, but it can be found in a super market. 

I'd hazard a guess and suggest that this is probably the worst thing you could do..