I joined this remarkable forum on the 1st April, more by accident than by design, but it has turned out to be a far more enriching and moving experience than I imagined at the outset.

Very well advanced in many of the practical aspects of my own transition ie. HRT, FFS, facial hair removal, coming out...before I joined, I wasn't looking for anything in particular here beyond the idea that it was no doubt a place I would run into kindred spirits.

This was quickly confirmed but the other thing that has fascinated me over the last few months is how much variation there is in the way we all approach transition.

No doubt because of how important relationships are in my own life, I have been particularly interested in the stories of all the people who are in a similar position to me, well advanced in life, living in a stable couple, with kids, a job to preserve etc. ie. people who already have a dense web of connections with others and who generally have to factor this into their decision making process.

At the other end of the playing field, I have been almost equally interested in the stories of our younger sisters, many of whom are in the same age bracket as my own children.

Compared to many of the stories I have seen here, I guess I am in a pretty good place right now. Except for work, I have transitioned completely while preserving my marriage, my relationships with my kids, my friends and almost all of my family. Even at work, my boss recently told me that having thought about it quite a lot since I came out last March, he could finally see no reason "prevent me from being myself" and we have agreed that I will come out to my other colleagues in November after I get back from a vacation which starts with a face-lift to finish off the feminization of my face.

Reading these stories , I have also asked myself a lot of questions about why, compared to many,  things have so far gone pretty well for me, a person who decided to finally take the plunge so late in life. I'll be 56 at my next birthday and I live in a fondamentally conservative country where the law is far from being accomodating towards people like us.

If I was to give just one answer, I would have to say it has been giving people around me time to adjust and generally showing that I am also very sensitive to their needs. Second in importance is the support I have received from my wife but I don't think this would have happened the way it did if I hadn't been careful about the first point and that is why I am writing this post.

Whether it be people in a similar position to me or the younger ladies here, I can't stress enough how important it is to allow  our SO's time to get on board when we finally decide we want to transition., if of course you want to preserve these relationships.

For me, this meant coming out to my wife as soon as I met her in 2005, not starting HRT until 2008, stop-go for a couple of years before engaging in  an uninterrupted regimen in 2010.

In July 2011 I did my upper face FFS in at which point I also came out to my kids. However, apart from explaining to them where I intended to go, I was not at all in their face about it and  continued to present male to them until I got my lower face FFS behind me in August 2012. Since then, I have always presented female to them but not at all flashy and so far they have never seen me in a dress.

During the year 2011-12, I also came out to all my close friends and even most of my outer circle of friends. Since then, I have presented exclusively female when with them, including in dresses etc.. but would like to insist that this was after 2 years of HRT, FFS and facial hair removal, ie. with a sufficiently feminine appearance for them to feel comfortable in my presence.

My only really big failure (so far...!)  was at work where my coming out and first attempt to transition crashed badly. However retrospectively, I would have to admit that there were other issues there too and I was far from being happy with the way the firm operated. This showed without any doubt which means my employers weren't too happy about me either, even before I came out.

In this respect, it is interesting to note that I am so far doing very well in my new position and I have little doubt that it is because my boss is happy about the way I am doing my job that he has come around to the idea of my transitioning later this year.

At the end of the day, what I am saying is that if we avoid being too self-centered,  a real  "occupational hazard" for most of us during the build-up to and implementation of a transition, we can probably preserve far more of our relationships, both personal and professional,  than many of the posts here would lead you to believe.

Regarding this point, I did a lot of work in the area of interpersonal communication in recent years and one of the key learning's I took away from that is how important it is to acknowledge and integrate other people's needs, problems etc. before pushing your own agenda. This doesn't mean you renege on your own agenda, it simply means you do all in your power to accommodate the other people's issues first. When they see this, within reason, most people will in turn be far more open to what you want. Not always easy to take on board but a "little" patience also doesn't do any harm...

To finish on this theme, two books I would recommend to anyone considering a transition are:

1.   The 7 habits of highly effective people by Steve Covey http://www.amazon.com/Habits-Highly-Effective-People-Powerful/dp/0743269519/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373813618&sr=1-1&keywords=the+7+habits

2.   The power of personal accountability by Mark Samuel & Sophie Chiche http://www.amazon.com/Power-Personal-Accountability-Achieve-Matters/dp/097526382X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373814701&sr=1-2&keywords=the+power+of+personal+accountability


All things considered, I think the 2nd of these books is probably the best one to start with.

So those were my thoughts on a vital subject for many and, considered how many posts on we see on this issue, I would be curious to know how others feel about it?

Warm regards to all from France on a beautiful summer day.
Donna

This is a good post, Donna, and I hope we get more people to respond to it. Your point about going slow and having patience is a good one, and I think the point well taken. The raw and visceral emotions our SOs experience change over time, and going at a slow and measured pace after coming out allows them to go through those stages and resolve issues as best they can in their own ways.

The only items I may add, and this drawing on personal experience, is that sometimes we cannot figure out our trans issues until well into the relationship. Like a lot of people, I have known about this my whole life, but it did not reach a point where I could no longer manage in the closet until 11 years into the relationship.  By the time I came out, it hit my spouse like a giant double decker bus. The shock and grief are something I am not sure time would help, no matter how long we let the pot simmer.  The shock has faded certainly, though the grief is still sharp.  This and not much has even changed for us, yet.  While I blend some femme presentation, I still present largely in guy mode around her. I am not on HRT, though, nor do I have any plans to start in the next few months.  My point is that I think offering up the knowledge of being trans to a spouse has different effects depending on the period of the marriage. Starting out is much different than after you are in your decade(s) of being together.

That said, I still think a slow and measured pace is sage advice. My spouse's grief has turned into steady resolve...a resolve to see through our divorce in an amicable manner.  While this is heartbreaking to me and I am concerned about the world after, I hold on to the shreds of our lives together, and know we will remain friends.  Our bonds of love are so deep.  Just this morning she offered to be with me at such time I get FFS/SRS, and take care of me after. I think my slow pace has allowed us both not to do or say things that would devastate our friendship. However, physical intimacy is important, and she has never been a lesbian. She is, in fact, attracted to alpha males - which I was until my world collapsed a few months ago. 

So patience does help: I have been out 4+ months and am still largely the male I was previously, but with some feminine accents. It has helped us remain civil, but we still cry at least twice per week. This morning we divided our assets, and discussed meeting with an attorney this week or next to begin divorce proceedings.  It was during this time reviewing our money and other assets when she asked asked of my surgeries, and offering post-op care. Had we not been so patient, I am sure the discussion would be much more acrimonious. 

Btw, I have read 7 Habits, though not the other.  I would offer that by coming out to our spouses we do accept a measure of personal accountability - candor and honesty, consequences be damned, is the purest form of accountability. What we do with it after, and the respect and patience we have with our spouses is another matter.

Good post, and I agree with 90% of your observations.  Thank you for sharing.

Toni

 

Good post, Donna! I'm currently flirting with the extent to which my SO will accept me as a woman (as it stands: so long as I ain't).

I couldn't agree more that patience, and extending our understanding towards others is an imperative.

I think (and psychology agrees) that folks are abundantly optimistic. Quite often this optimism is unwarranted - so it's important to look beyond our own exuberance.

(and yes... i understand that i condensed a great deal; thereby leaving the horse behind, and trusting the cart to gravity. C'est la vie)

Excellent post, and I also agree that being respectful, listening well, and going at the pace comfortable for our nearest and dearest can sometimes pay off!

(I didn't lose anyone/anything through transition either - 31 when I started, no kids. I guess that puts me squarely in the age group you don't care about I know I'm exceptionally fortunate, and I'll always be grateful that my wife was willing to stay at my side throughout the journey. It took my parents and grandparents a bit of time to adapt, but they're great now; my sister and employer and friends were all totally supportive from the moment they heard. I actually transitioned in 11 months, with GRS last summer, and will always be amazed that it went as smoothly as it did.)

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 14, 2013, 06:40:01 PM
Excellent post, and I also agree that being respectful, listening well, and going at the pace comfortable for our nearest and dearest can sometimes pay off!

(I didn't lose anyone/anything through transition either - 31 when I started, no kids. I guess that puts me squarely in the age group you don't care about I know I'm exceptionally fortunate, and I'll always be grateful that my wife was willing to stay at my side throughout the journey. It took my parents and grandparents a bit of time to adapt, but they're great now; my sister and employer and friends were all totally supportive from the moment they heard. I actually transitioned in 11 months, with GRS last summer, and will always be amazed that it went as smoothly as it did.)

Jenna,
Thanks for the feedback and, since my eldest daughter is 28 and I'm already a Granny, I guess I can fit you into the kids age group too..
Bises
Donna

P.S At your age, it is really quite exceptional that the spouse stays the road. However, couples, relationships only last for as long as each person feels that on balance they benefit from it so, while it is great that you are grateful to your wife, if you have stayed together it is because you bring something important to her too!

Quote from: Antonia J on July 14, 2013, 06:11:31 PM
This is a good post, Donna, and I hope we get more people to respond to it. Your point about going slow and having patience is a good one, and I think the point well taken. The raw and visceral emotions our SOs experience change over time, and going at a slow and measured pace after coming out allows them to go through those stages and resolve issues as best they can in their own ways.

The only items I may add, and this drawing on personal experience, is that sometimes we cannot figure out our trans issues until well into the relationship. Like a lot of people, I have known about this my whole life, but it did not reach a point where I could no longer manage in the closet until 11 years into the relationship.  By the time I came out, it hit my spouse like a giant double decker bus. The shock and grief are something I am not sure time would help, no matter how long we let the pot simmer.  The shock has faded certainly, though the grief is still sharp.  This and not much has even changed for us, yet.  While I blend some femme presentation, I still present largely in guy mode around her. I am not on HRT, though, nor do I have any plans to start in the next few months.  My point is that I think offering up the knowledge of being trans to a spouse has different effects depending on the period of the marriage. Starting out is much different than after you are in your decade(s) of being together.

Hi Antonia,
Our paths continue to cross but I think you will have understood that your story also stood out in my mind  when I started to write my post. To tell you the truth, I am always deeply saddened by such stories and even quite distressed at times, so much so that I have thought more than once about quitting the forum. No doubt they expose me to some of my own fragilities.

Something worth mentioned so that you fully understood how things played out with my wife is that I actually didn't know I would end out transitioning when I first came out to her about who I was. I simply knew that I identified very strongly with all things female/feminine and told her that.  For sure, just doing that was enough for her to leave me space to express that part of my personality, notably cross dressing at times at home and some clubbing.

Everything that happened subsequently was very gradual with no particular "moment of truth" and I don't think I integrated the word "trans" into my vocabulary until I started HRT. Regarding this, I suspect that the way we frame our initial coming out can make a huge difference.  If everything is already pre-ordained ie. "I'm trans and I'm going to transition, period", I believe the shock to the receiving party is far greater than the way I went about it.

In spite of this difference,  which was not a deliberate act as I really didn't know where I was going back in 2005, my wife still went through a deep grieving process, in particular when I did my FFS as the changes were really very radical.  A very strong male face, deeply marked by the passage of time and the difficulties of life, became what you see in the avatar. No beauty queen but believe me, quite unrecognizable compared to before.

It's hard, if not impossible to compare the grief of one person compared to another but I have no doubt at all about the reality of my own wife's grief as she became fully conscious of the new reality. I think the therapist helped her a lot and I really believe we have put the worst behind us even if GRS could still be a bit of a challenge. I think she already accepts the idea, at least that is what she has told me. However, seeing me very diminished physically really gets her down.

I don't know if any of that can help you in your present situation but if you can at least stay on good terms with your wife, all will not be lost.
Warmest regards.
Donna

Great post, Donna! Taking your time definitely has benefits. It allows this somewhat tectonic shift to be processed with as little pain as possible.

Like you, things unfolded for me fairly gradually. At first it was merely an interest (from a very early age) that grew of its own volition into a full-fledged transition (which I am still figuring out). But my wife has thankfully pledged her support.

Our years can sometimes work in our favor. Like you, I'm of a certain age (47), and the (relatively) advanced perspective it's given my wife and I has been a good thing. We're old enough now to see our relatives and even friends passing (sometimes by their own hand, sadly), and so a gender change has been minimized by the fact that we're still around, and still grateful for each other's company, still feeling the love. There are worse things out there than a person finally finding ones' self ...

It also helps to be (and have been) a very supportive spouse ourselves. Thus we build up good karma and emotional capital that, when we need it, comes our way ...

Long before I "came out" last year, I had recognized the importance (in my life) of allowing others time to process the information being given them & the change(s) being asked of them.  Because of that, I waited a year before filing for my legal name change. 

That time was given (primarily) to my family.  I am married to a man & we have children.  That being said, I come from a long line of homophobia and hate mongering.  My mother, for example, sees less the transgender & more the homosexual while ignoring the person (me) inside. 

My dad & his husband, I had assumed would be slightly more on board with my desire to transition.  His husband, my Mutter (he's German), was a proud drag queen for many years.  In the end, you know what they say about @$$Ume.  They basically forbade me to transition.

After the year passed, I evaluated my relationships & realized that for some (my parents, for example), acceptance is never going to come.  At this point I'm learning to make peace with relationships lost & continue to work toward moving forward with my transition.

In short, while I can see the benefit of progressing slowly for the sake of relationships; I also see the benefit of recognizing when to step back & say "enough is enough, love me for the person within or leave".

Quote from: Kyle on July 15, 2013, 12:13:29 PM
Long before I "came out" last year, I had recognized the importance (in my life) of allowing others time to process the information being given them & the change(s) being asked of them.  Because of that, I waited a year before filing for my legal name change. 

That time was given (primarily) to my family.  I am married to a man & we have children.  That being said, I come from a long line of homophobia and hate mongering.  My mother, for example, sees less the transgender & more the homosexual while ignoring the person (me) inside. 

My dad & his husband, I had assumed would be slightly more on board with my desire to transition.  His husband, my Mutter (he's German), was a proud drag queen for many years.  In the end, you know what they say about @$$Ume.  They basically forbade me to transition.

After the year passed, I evaluated my relationships & realized that for some (my parents, for example), acceptance is never going to come.  At this point I'm learning to make peace with relationships lost & continue to work toward moving forward with my transition.

In short, while I can see the benefit of progressing slowly for the sake of relationships; I also see the benefit of recognizing when to step back & say "enough is enough, love me for the person within or leave".

Hi Kyle,
Just being able to stand back from things for a while is already well worth while and if at the end of the day, there is no evolution in people's position, sure, a damage limitation exercise is probably the best option.

I think Pollyanna's remark about building up emotional capital is very important and it is one of the big themes in Steve Covey's book, "The 7 habits..." That is the main reason I mentioned that particular book but there are other reasons too which those who have the curiosity to read it will discover.

When the emotional capital is not there, many people's reaction to the idea of a transition will be to cut their losses and run. However, when it is sufficient, emotional capital provides space to manoeuver and to use "S.Covey's" terminolgy, when you tell your SO's (which includes parents for our younger sisters) you intend to transition, you often make a huge withdrawal on your emotional bank account, probably even more with spouses and kids than with parents I would think. 

Very often we are so focused on our own problems/issues when we finally come out, we underestimate the effect on those whose lives are closely linked to ours.  Rather than explaining ad nauseam where we are coming from and why going through with this is important to us, I would therefore suggest we focus more on understanding the reactions of the people who count for us. Happily, in many cases they will be quite positive, generally the case with friends. With family, parents, siblings, children it is always a lot more complicated as their name/blood is associated with yours.

For example my eldest brother cannot cope with my transition so he excluded me from the recent mariage of his daughter with whom I had always had quite a close and friendly relationship. He was so scared of what other people might think he couldn't even integrate the fact that I function without any problem in society with a day job as a senior manager in international engineering group... Totally irrational but there are people like that and, as you said, best solution in such cases is to cut your losses.

I don't think this negates the rest of what I am saying though...

Wishing you all the best on journey.
Bises
Donna

Along with patience, I think part of what contributes to a successful transition is forgiveness.  Those we come out to have reactions - sometimes quite ugly - that come from places only they can understand. While nobody should ever accept abuse, especially if their physical well-being is threatened, it is sometimes helpful to just be quiet and listen when others are ranting. Maybe even listen and then leave, if you have a place to go. What not to do is get into a heated debate and argue or try to convince someone of the logic of transition when they are still dealing with the shock. 

It is just my experience, and I am not speaking for anyone but me, but I have found that some of the people who said some pretty ugly things early on came around and apologized and supported me later (even if they may still not understand it). That I didn't yell back and shout angry things at them, or try to engage in a debate, but instead left the situation physically and let them think gave them time to cool their minds. Sometimes this was weeks before we spoke again. I also did not hold an hour or two of drama against the years of relationship that we had built together.  I forgave them, as I know they were not in a good place when I told them.  That being said, I do have one person I will not speak to again for a long long time -- going back to nobody needs to accept abuse.

Patience and forgiveness are two wonderful traits to master.

Donna : Fair enough, but it's hard for me to picture you having a daughter that age.

And you make an excellent point; I never meant to suggest that my wife isn't equally grateful for me standing by her during difficult times, or that we aren't equal partners. We've been together since we were teenagers, so we did have some practice growing and changing together before this!

(Oddly enough, the majority of marriages I know with people in the 25-45 age range are still intact. I also hear that's not typical, though.)


Antonia : I really like your idea about forgiveness, and especially "What not to do is get into a heated debate and argue or try to convince someone of the logic of transition when they are still dealing with the shock."

I've also had my parents (and aunt, now that I think about it) come back later and apologize for not taking it well, although in my case they didn't say anything exactly terrible - they just sort of looked shocked and had some serious trouble with pronouns at first. My mother did sort of try "have you tried not being transsexual," but she'd known about five minutes at that point. Anyway, yes, I've observed with trans friends' experiences as well that sometimes people blurt out really ignorant or ugly things and then are horribly embarrassed later. It can be hard to forgive and forget, but shock makes people do nasty things.

This is a thread I needed to hear. 

I have been married for 10 years (together 14), and while I have know about my gender dysphoria since I was a child, it was mostly under control for the first 7 years of our marriage.  I had not dressed up in years, and most of my effeminate nature seemed to be gone.  In hindsight I think this was do to a very masculine lifestyle that centered around martial arts and other forms of simulated recreational combat (combined with vast amounts of beer consumption etc.).  Since it seemed that I had my dysphoria fully under control, I didn't feel any need to bring it up to my wife.  Fast forward to 3 years ago, I became a father and I had a pretty serious back injury that put a permanent end to my participation in recreational combat.  As a result of this dramatic lifestyle change and the significant drop in Testosterone that accompanied it, my dysphoria has returned stronger than ever. 

For a couple of years, I tried very hard to suppress it with little success.  I have since come to accept my feminine side and learned to enjoy embracing it in secret.  I would love to be able to transition or at least do some HRT to move myself in a more feminine direction permanently.   However I do not think that it is possible for several reasons.

1.  I am the sole financial supporter for my family.  While my wife is a very talented artist/photographer she would not be able to financially support herself or our son on her own.

2. My son is only 4 years old, and while some might say that it is only a cultural construct.  I firmly believe that my child deserves to have a father in his life.  It is a part that I am comfortable and willing to play while I am in the closet, but it would be impossible if I were to come out and start to transition.

3.  My family means everything to me.  While it might be a significant burden to keep my feminine nature to myself, I cannot risk loosing my family.  My wife loves me with all of her heart, but I know enough about her to know that she could not accept me this way.  I doubt she would divorce me (see item 1) but I am fairly certain she would not be happy in our marriage and I feel that it would be selfish and I love her too much to destroy her happiness.

I hear a lot of people say things like "It was either transition or suicide", and while I will not presume to understand their situation, I personally reject this idea.  I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking about suicide quite often, but obviously that would be far far worse for my family than transition, so I never let myself really consider the idea with any more seriousness than hypothetical fantasy.

If I didn't have any responsibilities,  I would love start HRT tomorrow and schedule a FFS as soon as possible (since it totally have the financial resources to do it).  But my family is just too important to me.

Well there it is, all my cards are on the table.

Thank you for posting this thread. You all seem very brave to face the potential tearing of relationships. I mean spouses and SO's you've been with for so many years. That's a hard thing to have jeopardized. When compared to that, my story seems a little petty, but it's still important to me.

My girlfriend and I have been dating for over a year and a half now. She's the first relationship I've ever had, and hers as well, and I don't want to lose her. I told her that I think I'm a transexual, and it made her cry. She's made it a point that she's no lesbian, and I've heard her trying to reassure herself by saying I'm just confused. I love her, so much, and I would never want to see her sad. I only hope she will eventually warm up to it, and that the guilt of bringing this upon her doesn't eat me alive. 

..and that was my little vent..

Donna Elvira, I understand what you are saying & can see it's benefits.  My intention wasn't to discredit or overlook "the rest".  I was simply pointing out that sometimes, there *does* come a point when you have to let go for your own health & well being.