Sorry if this is the wrong section, but I have been thinking about posting this since I registered, because it has been bothering me since around new years(this might end up as a long post).

Anyways, I have had a feeling since I was.. I think 6(hard to remember), that I was different.. okay I was actually kind of different since I have always been shy and have always had a problem expressing myself. Well, I guess I ignored it until recently. I realized, I wanted to be a girl. Though, other Christians say it is wrong to wish for that, and pretty much say I should just accept myself since God made me this way. I tried that, and I just found myself here, again.

Going back in time a bit. A few days before my birthday(day after christmas), I really thought I was going to commit suicide, but I just ended up crying for a few hours, and promising to find the reason I am here. I have been all over the place since then, and ended up here.

My youth group discussed LGBT, and I don't think it worked how they wanted, instead of becoming anti-LGBT like most of the group, my feelings grew stronger. I ended up doing hours of research on what it could be I was feeling, and if I am just going insane, but I found transsexual, and it seemed right.

Now, I cry multiple times each day, just out of confusion I guess, I get a feeling and end up hiding in my room so my family doesn't see. Or I will end up very mad and yell at random people, then start crying.. again. I am afraid I will lose my only friend, and will lose my family, I actually got pissed off at my friend a while ago, and I have kind of avoided him since, he was pretty much saying that he wanted to do stuff with a girl I have known for most of my life, and that just made me mad for some reason. I ended up talking to another girl about it, and then just tried to forget about it.

I know I should probably see a therapist, but honestly, I am afraid of talking to one since my parents already threatened to get me to talk to one for a reason I can't remember, and I am afraid that the therapist would tell my parents about how I feel.  The only person I actually feel comfortable talking to about my feelings, is the same one mentioned earlier, her name is Anza, and I really just feel calm around here.

I always get a weird feeling when I see girls, and end up feeling kind of sad I guess, or jealous(by the way, I don't think I have ever been attracted to someone). Though random kind of thing that makes it kind of weird, if I almost always hang out with girls, mostly Anza, and also her friend, guess since the both know homosexuals? And sort of support it from what I understand.

Anyways, I am very confused right now, and just kind of looking for help I guess? I am worried my family won't accept me if I am trans, since they kind of made it clear they don't support LGBT people. I guess the best thing would be to wait until I support myself, but that is like aways away, since I probably won't graduate school until I am 18-19. Can't talk to anyone at school since I am homeschooled...

Sorry for the long post.

I have to be honest, hearing that your youth group tried to make you and your peers anti-LGBT really boils my liberal (and transgender) blood. No offense at all to your religion, I'm just sorry you have to deal with the turmoil :/ I would just say that you really should never be ashamed of your feelings. Whatever it is that you feel, just know that there's nothing wrong with you. Based on what you said about how temperamental you've become, I would say it might be a good idea to talk to a therapist... I really don't think they are even lawfully allowed to tell your parents what you say to them, so I wouldn't worry about that. You mentioned talking to this girl Anza... For me, talking to my girlfriend (who has also been me bestfriend for years now) was one of the best feelings I've felt. I know you said she's just a friend to you, but if she can be supportive of you, it would be a HUUUUUGE boost in gaining self-acceptance; at least, that's how it was for me. If you can trust her 100% not to tell anyone, and if you feel ready and comfortable enough to talk to her, I say go for it. I think it would start the road to better understanding and better acceptance of yourself. But of course, you know what you feel more than I do; if you aren't ready to talk to anyone yet then just wait and continue figuring things out alone for a while.
Anyways, best of luck to you!

Hi Matthew,

To be honest  peer acceptance and group acceptance are all a bit of a crock. Self acceptance is the only thing we need. I do know that there some 'religious' people who have strange beliefs that people like me are not normal.

To be honest I feel sorry for them. How would they know if I'm normal or not? How do they know they are? They sit in a group and egg themselves on so that a group belief becomes normal.

I'm not in anyway religious and I don't own a bible and if I've ever read one I've forgotten the stories in it, but my understanding is that Jesus was crucified by a group of people who had been driven into group hysteria over him.

Not a good historical or religious basis for group decisions in my opinion.

I'm me, I'm a woman who was born with genital defects, I looked like a boy. However I never was male, and no amount of 'persuasion' was successful in changing me from being female to male.

So I'm a woman. Pretty obvious to be honest.

So don't get caught up on what others think. They are pretty irrelevant in the long term.

Be yourself.

Ye it is hard but we are here to help.

Welcome to Susan's

Cindy

I want to give you a big hug!

Religion does annoy me immensely, and i'm afraid that your family and friends may find it hard to accept if they are quite religious. How old are you? I believe that if you are over 16 the therapist will have no legal obligation to inform your parents (the precise age may be different, but it's well worth checking out).
I can understand how incredibly frustrated you must be hun, but it's important to be strong for yourself. You are not alone and there are plenty of people here on this site, myself included, who will help answer any questions you may have and help you through this tough time.

xx

For the youth group thing, not sure if that is exactly what they meant, but it seemed like it since they brought up all this "evidence" on how homosexuality is learned and not a real thing(I have to admit, the idea of a gay gene is kind of stupid, but still, I don't believe it is learned). Anyways, I pretty much decided that they should have done real research before bringing up that as a discussion.

I am starting to think I can trust Anza, just going to be careful still and continue to just kind of let her figure out things about me until I get brave enough to actually talk to her.

Maybe I will get brave enough to ask my parents if I can talk to a therapist, but I find it really hard to talk to my family.

Quote from: matthewzguitarz on July 16, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
For the youth group thing, not sure if that is exactly what they meant, but it seemed like it since they brought up all this "evidence" on how homosexuality is learned and not a real thing(I have to admit, the idea of a gay gene is kind of stupid, but still, I don't believe it is learned). Anyways, I pretty much decided that they should have done real research before bringing up that as a discussion.

I am starting to think I can trust Anza, just going to be careful still and continue to just kind of let her figure out things about me until I get brave enough to actually talk to her.

Maybe I will get brave enough to ask my parents if I can talk to a therapist, but I find it really hard to talk to my family.

Mmmm there is quite a scientific literature on sexual differentiation of the brain. For a review:

Front Neuroendocrinol. 2011 Apr;32(2):214-26. doi: 10.1016/j.yfrne.2011.02.007. Epub 2011 Feb 18.
Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders.
Bao AM, Swaab DF.
Source
Department of Neurobiology, Key Laboratory of Medical Neurobiology of Ministry of Health of China, Zhejiang Province Key Laboratory of Neurobiology, Zhejiang University School of Medicine, Hangzhou, China. baoaimin@zju.edu.cn
Abstract
During the intrauterine period a testosterone surge masculinizes the fetal brain, whereas the absence of such a surge results in a feminine brain. As sexual differentiation of the brain takes place at a much later stage in development than sexual differentiation of the genitals, these two processes can be influenced independently of each other. Sex differences in cognition, gender identity (an individual's perception of their own sexual identity), sexual orientation (heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality), and the risks of developing neuropsychiatric disorders are programmed into our brain during early development. There is no evidence that one's postnatal social environment plays a crucial role in gender identity or sexual orientation. We discuss the relationships between structural and functional sex differences of various brain areas and the way they change along with any changes in the supply of sex hormones on the one hand and sex differences in behavior in health and disease on the other.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
PMID: 21334362 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I'm really sorry you feel that everyone is against you. It can definitely be frustrating at best to be with these kinds of people sometimes. Also, I am very glad to hear that you did not decide to end your life. That is certainly a huge step and a sign of your personal strength.

As for your youth group, it is sad to hear that they have adopted these views. As a Christian, myself, seeing people develop such misled opinions and then using the name of God to spread their own agenda is awful. I am really sorry that you had to experience that, even as an observer.

Anyway, talking to your friends is usually the best way to get this out into the open, but even if it isn't don't lose hope! With a little faith, anything is possible!

"Though, other Christians say it is wrong to wish for that, and pretty much say I should just accept myself since God made me this way. I tried that, and I just found myself here, again."

In my opinion they are right. God made you. God made you "trans" too and that is something I think a lot of people fail to realize and why we have such the struggles and dysphoria that cloud our lives. That same God has also gave us the intellegence to manipulate our physical body to bring it more into tune with our Spirits, which again that same God created, so why shouldn't we?

As for therapy, you are under the age of 18 but that doesn't mean that the therapist can blab everything you say to your parents. Unless you are wanting to harm yourself or others, what you talk about will be private to you and your therapist or should be anyway.

Though I would research the issue of patient confidentiality (if a minor), this is a general primer on the topic:

http://www.ehow.com/info_8207436_reasons-breach-confidentiality-minor.html

Thanks for the posts makes me feel better. About the science thing, even before reading that, I already was guessing it was something like that which caused homosexuality and trans.

Kind of cautious about talking to people, except over the internet where people don't know who I am(a reason I avoid facebook and telling my family about my youtube channel). One thing, I have tried hurting myself before, and it is a thought that goes through my head most days, but other days I am perfectly fine.

Right now I think I am more stressed because the nearby fire(was actually on the news, and is the biggest fire in calif. right now). They just started to evacuate a really nice city/town, too bad it will probably never be the same also sucks because the west side of it is near my area. We might lose power because the main power thingy is near there as well.. hopefully the wind won't shift in this direction because I think the news said it is traveling at 15mph.. it is only like 15miles away.

Also about the accepting myself thing. I was thinking about that as a way to kind of tell my youth group that they should research a bit. Since obviously, there is a reason God created people like this, and if it was learned, wouldn't we just be able to say we are fine with the way we were born? Don't think it works like that. Like Anza said, she has a Jewish friend who hates being gay and wants to be "normal", but he can't, and his family hates him.

I suggest that you challenge your youth group to find a passage in the Bible that condemns transsexualism. Forget anything about cross-dressing because everyone ignores that. (For example, kilts (i.e., skirts) have been worn by Scottish men for hundreds of years. And women used to be forbidden from wearing pants, because pants were traditionally men's clothing. Now women can even wear suits without raising eyebrows. Please see this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_wearing_pants)

Guess what? The Bible contains no passages that condemn transsexualism. If your youth group continues to be against transsexualism, then they are not following the Bible.

Quote from: Silvermist on July 18, 2013, 02:33:13 PM
I suggest that you challenge your youth group to find a passage in the Bible that condemns transsexualism. Forget anything about cross-dressing because everyone ignores that. (For example, kilts (i.e., skirts) have been worn by Scottish men for hundreds of years. And women used to be forbidden from wearing pants, because pants were traditionally men's clothing. Now women can even wear suits without raising eyebrows. Please see this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_wearing_pants)

Guess what? The Bible contains no passages that condemn transsexualism. If your youth group continues to be against transsexualism, then they are not following the Bible.

I wonder how many Christians actually follow the Bible anymore, since the people translating it could cut out parts and add new parts.

I will ask the person who leads it when she gets back in August about it, since she didn't really mention transsexualism directly, and I am kind of curious if she was actually only saying that stuff since her dad was in the room. I am not really that worried what other people think.. mostly just my family. I guess the main thing that causes Christians to not accept transsexual or homosexual or whatever, is because they don't understand it, and years ago, it wasn't as well known. And now they all the sudden see so many, and are kind of overwhelmed?

Also, about the kilts and stuff, I actually laughed on the 4th because there was a b->-bleeped-<-ipe band, and one of the teens in the youth group looked kind of disgusted by it. I actually thought it was cool that the people were brave enough to dress like that in front of thousands of people plus, somewhere in my family is some Scottish.

Actually that was a very interesting issue. I am certainly far from being well-versed in the Bible, but after a little web surfing, apparently there's not really anything on trans* issues in the Bible. The only one, Deuteronomy 22:5, which is shown in its true context here:

http://www.gaychristian101.com/transgender.html

Also, it says other stuff about surgery and other stuff.

Quote from: matthewzguitarz on July 18, 2013, 11:52:47 PM
I wonder how many Christians actually follow the Bible anymore, since the people translating it could cut out parts and add new parts.
I will ask the person who leads it when she gets back in August about it, since she didn't really mention transsexualism directly, and I am kind of curious if she was actually only saying that stuff since her dad was in the room. I am not really that worried what other people think.. mostly just my family. I guess the main thing that causes Christians to not accept transsexual or homosexual or whatever, is because they don't understand it, and years ago, it wasn't as well known. And now they all the sudden see so many, and are kind of overwhelmed?

Also, about the kilts and stuff, I actually laughed on the 4th because there was a b->-bleeped-<-ipe band, and one of the teens in the youth group looked kind of disgusted by it. I actually thought it was cool that the people were brave enough to dress like that in front of thousands of people plus, somewhere in my family is some Scottish.

A bible is a big book with a lot of pages. Why read it when there are more than enough people to tell you whats in it?

Always bring up Joan of Arc. Was she just a crossdresser? Transgender? Lesbian? It really doesn't matter but the church claims that she is a saint or was going to make her one a while back. They alos killed her when she wasn't useful anymore though. Guess what? This brave possibly F2M supposedly talked directly with God and the church supported her.

That link is interesting, will read more later. But, yeah, think it would be cool to actually talk about this with the youth group, I am curious how many people really are against this stuff. I am thinking that most people are just agreeing with what they think the Bible means, also was kind of hard since the leader and her dad kind of just shot down a lot of the questions on the Bible possibly being wrong.

For the Joan of Arc person, going to research her more since my history book pretty much just said she started a war and left it at that(the book is actually very anti catholic it seems, don't know if that had to do with it).

Quote from: Jess42 on July 19, 2013, 03:30:27 PM
A bible is a big book with a lot of pages. Why read it when there are more than enough people to tell you whats in it?

Most people who would attempt to read the Bible would find it to be almost gibberish. (I'm commenting on the language of the text, not the content.) That's why the vast majority of people have not read the vast majority of the Bible: They find it too hard to understand. So they trust their church leaders to tell them the important stuff. Most Christians have no clue about the less-than-savory parts because, when they quote scripture or do Bible study, they only go to the "nice" parts.

For instance, take the marriage issue. Marriage equality opponents are so gung-ho about "one man, one woman" as they claim that the Bible dictates, but the "Good Book" has always supported polygamy and has no explicit decree about "one man, one woman."

QuoteAlways bring up Joan of Arc. Was she just a crossdresser? Transgender? Lesbian? It really doesn't matter but the church claims that she is a saint or was going to make her one a while back. They alos killed her when she wasn't useful anymore though. Guess what? This brave possibly F2M supposedly talked directly with God and the church supported her.

I think that you have some details wrong about Joan of Arc. I just glanced over the Wikipedia article. To apply LGBT labels to her is inappropriate because there's simply zero evidence that she was any of them. The whole reason why the Catholic Church supported her was because would-be French king Charles VII thought that she would be useful in his fight for coronation and needed to be sure that she was trustworthy, not some lunatic. So he had the Church test her for any possible heresy; none was found. (If there was anything LGBT happening, it would've been detected.)

The reason why Joan did what she did was because she believed that was instructed by visions from God, not because she wanted to be a man and do manly things. Please don't confuse her with Mulan. She disguised herself as a male only to avoid getting in trouble in her journey to meet Charles for the first time; once she was established within his campaign, no such disguises were needed nor used.

Likewise, she was executed for political reasons, not because the Church saw fit to discard her. England and France were at war, even though they were both Catholic states at the time. When the English captured Joan, of course they weren't going to treat her like a saint. She was basically the enemy's mascot. So they found some England-sympathizing clerics and got them to convict her of heresy (even though there was no evidence for it).

Joan remained so popular over the centuries that the Vatican reexamined her trial and overtuned the ruling. She was canonized into sainthood in 1920. To this day, she remains one of the most popular saints in the canon. Her story says more about the Church's willingness to bend to political and popular pressure than anything to do with LGBT. But the point still stands that she did dress as a male on one or more occasions, and the Church apparently found nothing wrong with that.

Quote from: matthewzguitarz on July 19, 2013, 10:19:16 PMI am thinking that most people are just agreeing with what they think the Bible means, also was kind of hard since the leader and her dad kind of just shot down a lot of the questions on the Bible possibly being wrong.

That is so silly because none of these issues necessarily have to do with the Bible being wrong. The interpretation is what matters. Many Christians interpret those contentious passages about homosexual behavior in ways that allow them to be supportive of LGBT people. And almost nobody has a completely internally-consistent philosophy for how to interpret other parts of the Bible. If a Christian can ignore the prohibitions on seafood and mixed fabrics, then why not also ignore the anti-homosexual stuff?

QuoteFor the Joan of Arc person, going to research her more since my history book pretty much just said she started a war and left it at that(the book is actually very anti catholic it seems, don't know if that had to do with it).

She did not start any wars. No history book would claim that. She was a key figure in the Hundred Years war, however.

Quote from: Silvermist on July 20, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
Most people who would attempt to read the Bible would find it to be almost gibberish. (I'm commenting on the language of the text, not the content.) That's why the vast majority of people have not read the vast majority of the Bible: They find it too hard to understand. So they trust their church leaders to tell them the important stuff. Most Christians have no clue about the less-than-savory parts because, when they quote scripture or do Bible study, they only go to the "nice" parts.

For instance, take the marriage issue. Marriage equality opponents are so gung-ho about "one man, one woman" as they claim that the Bible dictates, but the "Good Book" has always supported polygamy and has no explicit decree about "one man, one woman."
I think that you have some details wrong about Joan of Arc. I just glanced over the Wikipedia article. To apply LGBT labels to her is inappropriate because there's simply zero evidence that she was any of them. The whole reason why the Catholic Church supported her was because would-be French king Charles VII thought that she would be useful in his fight for coronation and needed to be sure that she was trustworthy, not some lunatic. So he had the Church test her for any possible heresy; none was found. (If there was anything LGBT happening, it would've been detected.)

The reason why Joan did what she did was because she believed that was instructed by visions from God, not because she wanted to be a man and do manly things. Please don't confuse her with Mulan. She disguised herself as a male only to avoid getting in trouble in her journey to meet Charles for the first time; once she was established within his campaign, no such disguises were needed nor used.

Likewise, she was executed for political reasons, not because the Church saw fit to discard her. England and France were at war, even though they were both Catholic states at the time. When the English captured Joan, of course they weren't going to treat her like a saint. She was basically the enemy's mascot. So they found some England-sympathizing clerics and got them to convict her of heresy (even though there was no evidence for it).

Joan remained so popular over the centuries that the Vatican reexamined her trial and overtuned the ruling. She was canonized into sainthood in 1920. To this day, she remains one of the most popular saints in the canon. Her story says more about the Church's willingness to bend to political and popular pressure than anything to do with LGBT. But the point still stands that she did dress as a male on one or more occasions, and the Church apparently found nothing wrong with that.
That is so silly because none of these issues necessarily have to do with the Bible being wrong. The interpretation is what matters. Many Christians interpret those contentious passages about homosexual behavior in ways that allow them to be supportive of LGBT people. And almost nobody has a completely internally-consistent philosophy for how to interpret other parts of the Bible. If a Christian can ignore the prohibitions on seafood and mixed fabrics, then why not also ignore the anti-homosexual stuff?
She did not start any wars. No history book would claim that. She was a key figure in the Hundred Years war, however.

Well, I shall leave the Bible stuff to the smarter people, I still can't understand most of it(probably why I gave up after genesis). Also was interesting to find out that my cousins haven't read the Bible, but I think they are Christians.. Eh, doesn't matter, they are still my favorite cousins mostly because I only have a few who still live in Cali.

I think I misread the Joan of Ark part, I was kind of distracted by other things, like my cat attempting to help me do school

For most of Christendom, a Christian is someone who acknowledges Christ as Lord and Savior.  There is a period there because that's it.  Nothing more.  Therefore, a person can be trans and be a Christian.  They may be a good Christian or a bad Christian, but they are still Christian and it's really hard for anyone to look inside someone else to determine their level of goodness or badness.  I believe I can be trans and be a Christian.  Others on this site do as well as there is even a Christianity board in the spirituality section.

What are Christians supposed to do?  Love the Lord with all their hearts.  Love neighbors as much as they love themselves.  Easy to say: very, very hard to do.  A list of do's and don't is way easier to follow but that doesn't work (see old testament and about half the new testament).  It's easier to look at someone else and say they aren't doing what is right or they are doing what is wrong than it is to look inside ourselves because being wrong hurts and changing destructive behaviors is difficult.  Love requires that we look inside, admit when we are wrong, forgive when others are wrong....well, just go read I Corinthians 13.  Think about loving everyone like that.  All the time.  Very difficult.

Your church is looking at others and possibly hurting others.  They need to look at themselves and reach out in love.

As for you, be careful about counseling, especially if it is associated with your church.  There may be some communication with the councilor and your parents.  I'm not saying don't go, I think you should seek assisance and advice, I am saying be careful.  Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.  Work out the question of being trans much the same way.  If you are trans, well, your are trans and this is a good website for information.  If your not trans, your not trans.  Either way, we all wish you well.  But please remember who reached out in "agape" love.  (Selfless love of one person for another without sexual implications - especially love that is spiritual in nature.)

Quote from: JLT1 on July 21, 2013, 11:35:28 PM
For most of Christendom, a Christian is someone who acknowledges Christ as Lord and Savior.  There is a period there because that's it.  Nothing more.  Therefore, a person can be trans and be a Christian.  They may be a good Christian or a bad Christian, but they are still Christian and it's really hard for anyone to look inside someone else to determine their level of goodness or badness.  I believe I can be trans and be a Christian.  Others on this site do as well as there is even a Christianity board in the spirituality section.

What are Christians supposed to do?  Love the Lord with all their hearts.  Love neighbors as much as they love themselves.  Easy to say: very, very hard to do.  A list of do's and don't is way easier to follow but that doesn't work (see old testament and about half the new testament).  It's easier to look at someone else and say they aren't doing what is right or they are doing what is wrong than it is to look inside ourselves because being wrong hurts and changing destructive behaviors is difficult.  Love requires that we look inside, admit when we are wrong, forgive when others are wrong....well, just go read I Corinthians 13.  Think about loving everyone like that.  All the time.  Very difficult.

Your church is looking at others and possibly hurting others.  They need to look at themselves and reach out in love.

As for you, be careful about counseling, especially if it is associated with your church.  There may be some communication with the councilor and your parents.  I'm not saying don't go, I think you should seek assisance and advice, I am saying be careful.  Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.  Work out the question of being trans much the same way.  If you are trans, well, your are trans and this is a good website for information.  If your not trans, your not trans.  Either way, we all wish you well.  But please remember who reached out in "agape" love.  (Selfless love of one person for another without sexual implications - especially love that is spiritual in nature.)

Thanks for the reply. After a lot of thinking, I feel a lot better about all this. I decided I don't care what other people think about me, and I do lack self confidence.. but I will continue to be a Christian and just ignore anyone who doesn't like me doing that.

Though.. wonder what it would be like if I just started acting completely like a girl around my youth group, and maybe cousins(might spend a weekend with them), just to see reactions. Though, pretty sure a lot of people suspect I am gay.. wearing all that jewelry, acting kind of girly, hanging out with girls(actually very interesting since I found someone I can discuss intersex with), and just staring at random people because I am still kind of new to being in social situations.

Anyways, thanks for the help, and I love this website so much better than yahoo answers, mostly got replies there telling me I am crazy for wanting to be a girl.

Quote from: matthewzguitarz on July 22, 2013, 01:06:45 AM
Anyways, thanks for the help, and I love this website so much better than yahoo answers, mostly got replies there telling me I am crazy for wanting to be a girl.

Whatever you do do not take advice from that site. It is the worst. People are just flat out ignorant on it and a lot of people post just to up their point status. I knew this girl that used to do that.

Have you considered a fresh start and finding a new youth group? Maybe if you started fresh in another group they wouldn't have a set image of you and it would be easier to try and be yourself. I mean if the members of your group are all anti-LGBT you are going to face a backlash if you go further then what is comfortable to them or what they deem appropriate.

I mean how far can you get with them if they believe homosexuality is a learned behavior? There is no evidence either way except for the fact every single gay person say they have no choice. Every trans person says they have no choice. So either everyone is a liar and in a conspiracy or it is not learned. That really is beside the point though. I just feel like you need to find yourself and the group doesn't seem very condusive to that type of self exploration so if you stay in it how much will you really be able to do. There are more progressive sects of Christianity where being gay or trans is not condemned. But obviously that is just a suggestion.