Quote from: stavraki on July 16, 2013, 03:56:13 AM
Hi there matey,

I have a looootttt to say about jealousy.  Rather than overdo post one, I'll start by saying, I came from being a very jealous young male in my early 20's where just seeing my ex in a car with people would trigger the jealousy.

I have done a *great* deal of jealousy work, and quelled near most of it, and have learned  a whole new language about how to *harness* internal states of jealousy and use them as a *propellant* to become my next best form, and the kind of partner that is emotionally safe to be around and really relationship-building about jealousy.

I'll start by saying that jealousy, ultimately, is not  'race' between you and any 'other'.  Ultimately, it's an internal 'race' or really 'struggle' and the first step I learned was that jealousy was some reflection of the way I saw myself, and not about any other.

I had to learn that first.......does that get you thinking about anything?

cheers
stav

That definitely resonates a huge amount with me. Two things in particular and that would be:
"Just seeing my ex in a car with people would trigger the jealousy."

And

"I learned was that jealousy was some reflection of the way I saw myself, and not about any other."

The first part because that's, unfortunately, the level I'm at now. These really mundane and almost irrelevant daily actions can trigger really bad jealousy within me when it comes to my girlfriend, and the second part because I know my jealousy issues root in really bad self esteem and confidence issues. I also believe that my self esteem and confidence issues are a direct result of gender dysphoria and all the fun things that come along with being trans.

The thing is, I just don't know how to talk myself out of feeling so stupidly jealous over dumb things or how to get any control over it. I know T will help, but like I said earlier, I'd hate to treat it as some sort of cure all shot, and I also have no idea when I'll be able to get on it. But seeing as how you said you were quite a jealous guy in your early 20's (which is my age now) I'm actually really eager to hear any advice you have on how to deal with it and potentially get over it.

Quote from: ForWantOf on July 17, 2013, 12:44:10 PM
That definitely resonates a huge amount with me. Two things in particular and that would be:
"Just seeing my ex in a car with people would trigger the jealousy."

And

"I learned was that jealousy was some reflection of the way I saw myself, and not about any other."

The first part because that's, unfortunately, the level I'm at now. These really mundane and almost irrelevant daily actions can trigger really bad jealousy within me when it comes to my girlfriend, and the second part because I know my jealousy issues root in really bad self esteem and confidence issues. I also believe that my self esteem and confidence issues are a direct result of gender dysphoria and all the fun things that come along with being trans.

The thing is, I just don't know how to talk myself out of feeling so stupidly jealous over dumb things or how to get any control over it. I know T will help, but like I said earlier, I'd hate to treat it as some sort of cure all shot, and I also have no idea when I'll be able to get on it. But seeing as how you said you were quite a jealous guy in your early 20's (which is my age now) I'm actually really eager to hear any advice you have on how to deal with it and potentially get over it.

if ur really serious about personal development and growth, this is going to be a long conversation.  I'm happy to stand firm in the conversation, without leaving you hanging.  I've offered that first up because, jealousy comes from the same place that those feelings that haunt us that nag at us with thought like 'why didn't my friend call' and 'why aren't there many replies on my thread' and 'people aren't talking to me cause they don't like me' and anger about not getting enough love.  That is, I'm doing some soothing of you by promising to return to keep talking to you.  I'm acting as an external soother of your anxiety, fear and self-doubt.  Anxiety, fear and self-doubt are all associated with triggers of big spikes in jealousy when you feel let down, or vulnerable or exposed (rejected, devalued or not central in the thoughts of a loved one)

The first idea to absorb is about becoming your own 'soother' rather than needing the 'soothing and reassurance' coming from the outside world and from others.  Make sense?  Self-soothing tools.  We're gunna build some, together.

Asking you to declare your feelings of threat and jealousy online's a really really really big thing.  But, you already have been bravely honest with the 'car' thing upstream.  We won't be able to figure this out unless you can keep being open.  If you need to pull out of the conversation, just say so, and of course that's okay....

Do you know, being able to own and name the jealousy, just like you have here, but in the relationship where its affecting you, is where the quelling of it happens.  But, the declaring is a style and art that can be learned.  There are different ways of declaring the jealousy.  Some do damage to ourselves and to others.  Some heal.   We're gunna work through the different ways of declaring the jealousy.

There's a strong, quiet voice that often calls us to 'cover it up' and pretend we haven't got the jealousy, as we smile, that 'smiling assassin's' or 'fake' smile "Yeah, I'm *fine*" said just with that leaky-creaky false tone.  An empathic person will pick up you're fibbing when you're masking jealousy.  But, if you really want to (master) jealousy, the fibbing and masking's gotta stop.  It gives a 'short term gain, long term pain' that is a delayed maturation and leaving you feeling hurt, resentful and you'll get mean if you do this wrong.

The other thing we do with jealous is the control-rules we whack over others. Try to control the environment.  Why do we do that? (does the question make sense?)

I'll leave that as a question.  (I'll respond with what I've learned, but it's way better to get you to think about that...first).

And this one

What does one serious, internal 'grenade' of jealousy do to our sense of, or experience of others?
And

What are the different 'kinds' of jealousy we can experience.
Do you know matey, no-one of my parents ever mentored or taught me about jealousy.  I was on my own.  There's so so much to share about it that accelerates learning.

Can I say, you're a pretty gutsy guy to come on here and open yourself up like this.  You keep doing that, you'll get on top of your jealousy way quicker than I did.  I lied to myself all about it all through my 20's making the whole world responsible for something ultimately about who I was.....

Quote from: stavraki on July 18, 2013, 07:36:22 AM
if ur really serious about personal development and growth, this is going to be a long conversation.  I'm happy to stand firm in the conversation, without leaving you hanging.  I've offered that first up because, jealousy comes from the same place that those feelings that haunt us that nag at us with thought like 'why didn't my friend call' and 'why aren't there many replies on my thread' and 'people aren't talking to me cause they don't like me' and anger about not getting enough love.  That is, I'm doing some soothing of you by promising to return to keep talking to you.  I'm acting as an external soother of your anxiety, fear and self-doubt.  Anxiety, fear and self-doubt are all associated with triggers of big spikes in jealousy when you feel let down, or vulnerable or exposed (rejected, devalued or not central in the thoughts of a loved one)

The first idea to absorb is about becoming your own 'soother' rather than needing the 'soothing and reassurance' coming from the outside world and from others.  Make sense?  Self-soothing tools.  We're gunna build some, together.

Asking you to declare your feelings of threat and jealousy online's a really really really big thing.  But, you already have been bravely honest with the 'car' thing upstream.  We won't be able to figure this out unless you can keep being open.  If you need to pull out of the conversation, just say so, and of course that's okay....

Do you know, being able to own and name the jealousy, just like you have here, but in the relationship where its affecting you, is where the quelling of it happens.  But, the declaring is a style and art that can be learned.  There are different ways of declaring the jealousy.  Some do damage to ourselves and to others.  Some heal.   We're gunna work through the different ways of declaring the jealousy.

There's a strong, quiet voice that often calls us to 'cover it up' and pretend we haven't got the jealousy, as we smile, that 'smiling assassin's' or 'fake' smile "Yeah, I'm *fine*" said just with that leaky-creaky false tone.  An empathic person will pick up you're fibbing when you're masking jealousy.  But, if you really want to (master) jealousy, the fibbing and masking's gotta stop.  It gives a 'short term gain, long term pain' that is a delayed maturation and leaving you feeling hurt, resentful and you'll get mean if you do this wrong.

The other thing we do with jealous is the control-rules we whack over others. Try to control the environment.  Why do we do that? (does the question make sense?)

I'll leave that as a question.  (I'll respond with what I've learned, but it's way better to get you to think about that...first).

And this one

What does one serious, internal 'grenade' of jealousy do to our sense of, or experience of others?
And

What are the different 'kinds' of jealousy we can experience.
Do you know matey, no-one of my parents ever mentored or taught me about jealousy.  I was on my own.  There's so so much to share about it that accelerates learning.

Can I say, you're a pretty gutsy guy to come on here and open yourself up like this.  You keep doing that, you'll get on top of your jealousy way quicker than I did.  I lied to myself all about it all through my 20's making the whole world responsible for something ultimately about who I was.....

Well first off, let me give you a MASSIVE THANK YOU because I smiled like an idiot reading that. I know that it didn't cure my jealousy issues or anything haha but I've never had anybody to discuss this issue with that knew exactly where I was coming from. Even better yet, somebody that solved it. I honestly couldn't thank you enough for taking the time to do this, it's greatly appreciated.

The idea of a self soothing tool is really great and seems incredibly helpful, would this be something like focusing on the qualities I enjoy about myself and reinforcing the belief that those are what people like and value me for?

I also don't mind at all being brutally honest, although it's a serious issue, I can find ways to laugh about it because I understand how silly it really is. My girlfriend knows about my jealousy and she's been incredibly helpful with it for the years we've been together, and I really didn't even have any kind of jealousy "flare up" until recently, due to the guys she talks to. But yeah, honesty isn't any kind of problem, my brothers also have the same kind of jealousy issues for whatever reason so it's easy to declare having them myself. The only instance where I try to cover up my jealousy (in regard to my girlfriend) is a situation like this, because I don't want to drive her crazy or push her away by being upset over something so small and making a huge deal out of it.

I think, why we try to control our environment is because we're afraid of what we don't know. We fear all of these things that are beyond our control but we forget just that, it's beyond our control. If we can, by any means, control our environment and prevent our fears from happening, I think sometimes we can get ahead of ourselves and try to control things to an extreme that might hurt others, that's never a good thing. Luckily, I'm lax enough that I've never done something to hurt anybody else because of my jealousy.

Jealousy definitely makes it hard for me to experience a friendship or relationship to it's fullest extent. It's hard for me to put trust into people or to become attached because I don't want to end up being the weird jealous friend. I've never reached that point yet so I think in general, I'm doing okay with it, but again I can't tell you how much I value this information and how much it'll help me.

It's also really nice of you to say I'm brave and gutsy and all of that, but I have to say you're twice as much so for being able to cope with this all on your own and work it all out. I'm actually really curious to hear about your story and experience with your jealousy.

And one very last thing, if you would prefer to talk about this through PM that's totally fine with me. The thread is kind of dead outside of us haha and I'd hate to keep annoying users with it popping up from time to time.

I have hot jealousy as well but im good at hiding it when i need to and most of the time jealousy is just from insecurity and fear of abandonment.Regardless of transition or not,i still had this issue and until i can face those things,i will always have them.I have been told im cute when i get jealous BUT i dont like the feeling.All i can say is man,one: dont look at your transition as a cause for it,because im pretty sure thats not an issue.not when it comes to jealousy anyway.I mean i myself realize that people will cheat/lie/leave regardless and i have seen this happen on both sides,so i can say that my transition or before,was never the cause but the person their self.With that in mind,i keep fear of those things *not transition related for me anyway* because of the things i do see i have wrong aka trust issues,and many other things i need to change.I think its a mix of the fighting instinct for what one has worked for but also fear knowing that we do have issues that could push someone away.For example,im not the hottest thing in the world but im a rare heart but if a hot dude comes around,yes i see what he has that i dont,so i get upset and jealous that he fills something i cant.I have gotten very angry and jealous over the smallest things as well and there have been times that i stopped and said *erm did i just do that?* my opinion is that *some* jealousy can be good but i feel that you need *along with myself* to put alot of things to rest and im sure it will make it alot better for you.

Quote from: ForWantOf on July 21, 2013, 01:06:39 AM
The idea of a self soothing tool is really great and seems incredibly helpful, would this be something like focusing on the qualities I enjoy about myself and reinforcing the belief that those are what people like and value me for?

So - how do you actually self-soothe after your jealousy's triggered.  Ready for this? 

Hold onto your seat.  As counter-intuitive as this is, to begin with, this one, when you master it, will bring you home every time.  The trick is learning to experience sexual arousal imagining your partner is a sexual being, when she's being cruised by other males, rather than seeing her behaviour as a reflection of you, or as a threat to you.  How hard is that to learn?

Teach yourself to see her hotness through the eyes of males admiring her, rather than seeing her as the treacherous vixen coveting other males.  The 'coveting' is you, not her, when you're being jealous.  That's the thing that's so very hard to outgrow.  How do you do this?  Sexual contact after a jealous episode, as soon as you cool feelings down enough to trust, and as soon as the anger's gone from you.  Talk about the jealousy, but own it as your own.  Tell yourself you're betraying only yourself by getting jealous because you're selling your own hotness and worth short.

There's the key.  your own sense of worth.  Jealousy is also about imagining 'she wants him more than me right now'.  well, she may!  Just for a nanosecond or a moment, or a day, but that's called being human.  And whoever said that we are supposed to be the centre of our lover's worlds 24-7-365!  Impossible.  If you're like most people, she's not the centre of your universe all day everyday.  Ponder that one for a bit.  Just cause she's not 'always' your 'hottest' doesn't mean she 'usually is' or 'she's my chosen partner'.  It's important to let our loved ones feel safe about admiring other hot people.  I have a saying "married not dead" and "window shopping is healthy".

So, in that cluster of sentences, above, there are at least  a half dozen self-soothing tools.  Write them down.  Posted notes.  And they *will* fail the first 100 times you get jealous, but if you rehearsed them after each jealous episode, you'll make gains over time.

Expect the healing of jealousy to take--how long?

QuoteI also don't mind at all being brutally honest, although it's a serious issue, I can find ways to laugh about it because I understand how silly it really is.

wrong language.  Not sacred enough and kind enough on yourself.  It feels silly once you've cooled down.  But there's important changes to make in how you treat yourself after you've been jealous. Jealousy's an intense, internal violation as it occurs and it is very very important to honour the healing of jealousy, with great kindness to both yourself and others.  Ritualise language of love around healing jealousy.  Sacredness and vulnerability and trust are so very important when healing jealousy.

One from her: You honour me with your jealousy my husband, I feel so powerful and beautiful thank you for your gift.
One from her: Hold your station, you're forgetting yourself.  You were the man cruising me like the men that cruised me at the club the other night.  See yourself in those men, rather than seeing me lost to those men.

You can use those on her when she gets jealous too

One for you: If I'm kind about how I declare my jealousy and she uses my jealousy as a weapon of power over me, rather than a tool to grow us closer, then I'm with a manipulative person and I'm at risk and my jealousy is warning me to move on.

QuoteMy girlfriend knows about my jealousy and she's been incredibly helpful with it for the years we've been together

she sounds beautiful matey.  Really she does - are you jealous yet - I just said your gf sounds like a wonderful, human being.  Why wouldn't a lot of guys want her?  That's important to be able to own by esteeming her, by thanking her, by praising her and telling her these things.  That will make her see you as 'special' when she is flirting with other guys, and after flirting thing 'yeah, but my man's an awesome guy--those other guys are just fluff'.  A bit of flirting helps her feel good about herself.  I encourage my partner to feel safe flirting.  When they feel good about themselves, they can love you better too.

QuoteI don't want to drive her crazy or push her away by being upset over something so small and making a huge deal out of it.

it's not the feeling, matey it's what you do with it that counts.  There's no harm in gently declaring jealousy in an affirming way (see stuff I wrote, above).

QuoteI think, why we try to control our environment is because we're afraid of what we don't know. We fear all of these things that are beyond our control but we forget just that, it's beyond our control. If we can, by any means, control our environment and prevent our fears from happening, I think sometimes we can get ahead of ourselves and try to control things to an extreme that might hurt others, that's never a good thing. Luckily, I'm lax enough that I've never done something to hurt anybody else because of my jealousy.

Here's the thing.  The only entity we can really fully control is ourselves.  the more power and energy you put into controlling your environment, the greater the sense of threat and pain and hurt when the environment doesn't do what we say.

Change the direction of the power.  Turn your power inwards into self-healing, transcendence, self-soothing and self-love.  Grow.  Outgrow as much jealousy, over time as you can.

Again--how long do you thing outgrowing jealousy takes?

I'm actually really curious to hear about your story and experience with your jealousy.

My first boyfriend had sex with all of our shared friends.  I was 27.  I broke, in a very very serious way.  I would have to say I did thing of killing myself, fleetingly, but I stuck it out.

Before you go feeling sorry for me--meh--ya know what.  That was the best thing that ever happened to me.  I reclaimed a sense of my own hotness, first.  While I was really jealous and hurt I couldn't see that I was hot.  I also couldn't see how others saw me.  I saw phantoms, distortions and possessive ideas, ultimately, about myself.  I couldn't see that what my partner did was not a reflection of me, but about their journey.  His sacred journey, actually.  A choice made--what a young adoptee, 25, recovering from abandonment injury, who needed the prop of the sexual experience, and who was unable to experience himself in close, intimate partnership as a sexual being.  He used sex outside the relationship to self-soothe (there you have that word again).

Then, to be really frank, I realised that what he did was hot, in a way.  The only thing wrong was the secrets, which denied me my choices about whether or not to go on that journey with him.  The open relationship was rammed down my throat but buy a damaged young man.

Then while we were separated for 9 months, I had a lot of sex.  Guess what happened to my love for him.  Nothing.  So I had an epiphany: love was the greater power.  Lust was very forgettable.  And I realised that the intimacy between us was what made love.

Over time, seeing my partner in my head getting off with all of the people he did, stopped hurting.  It got hot in fact.  After all, we were still together, and where were all they, and someone hot is someone hot.  There was a critical point at which the images in the head stopped threatening me.  I grew to love myself and I did gym.  I got a lot of attention.  I realised that the key was seeing my own worth, hotness and beauty.  I learned that my partner's choice as a young, damaged man helped him heal old pain, and that made him more able to love and commit.  He grew--to love me more for seeing what he needed to outgrow pain.

so, James and I did separate, after another ten wonderful years together.  And we remain very close friends.  From jealousy, I grew.  In fact, jealousy was a propellant to grow into my next incarnation.  I have some questions - next post

the discoveries of aging.

kind regards
stav

how many kinds of jealousy are there.....think it out loud Is there only one kind?

Quote from: stavraki on July 21, 2013, 08:37:53 AM
So - how do you actually self-soothe after your jealousy's triggered.  Ready for this? 

Hold onto your seat.  As counter-intuitive as this is, to begin with, this one, when you master it, will bring you home every time.  The trick is learning to experience sexual arousal imagining your partner is a sexual being, when she's being cruised by other males, rather than seeing her behaviour as a reflection of you, or as a threat to you.  How hard is that to learn?

Teach yourself to see her hotness through the eyes of males admiring her, rather than seeing her as the treacherous vixen coveting other males.  The 'coveting' is you, not her, when you're being jealous.  That's the thing that's so very hard to outgrow.  How do you do this?  Sexual contact after a jealous episode, as soon as you cool feelings down enough to trust, and as soon as the anger's gone from you.  Talk about the jealousy, but own it as your own.  Tell yourself you're betraying only yourself by getting jealous because you're selling your own hotness and worth short.

There's the key.  your own sense of worth.  Jealousy is also about imagining 'she wants him more than me right now'.  well, she may!  Just for a nanosecond or a moment, or a day, but that's called being human.  And whoever said that we are supposed to be the centre of our lover's worlds 24-7-365!  Impossible.  If you're like most people, she's not the centre of your universe all day everyday.  Ponder that one for a bit.  Just cause she's not 'always' your 'hottest' doesn't mean she 'usually is' or 'she's my chosen partner'.  It's important to let our loved ones feel safe about admiring other hot people.  I have a saying "married not dead" and "window shopping is healthy".

So, in that cluster of sentences, above, there are at least  a half dozen self-soothing tools.  Write them down.  Posted notes.  And they *will* fail the first 100 times you get jealous, but if you rehearsed them after each jealous episode, you'll make gains over time.

QuoteRitualise language of love around healing jealousy.  Sacredness and vulnerability and trust are so very important when healing jealousy.

This is all invaluable information and something I can definitely get behind. I'll keep in mind that it will fail the first few times but I know with work this is definitely something I can do and something that will help a lot. Especially the parts bolded, this is really something I have to work on.

Quotehow long do you thing outgrowing jealousy takes?

In all honesty, a lifetime doesn't seem out of reach. If that's what it would take then I'm definitely ready, and even less drastic, I would willingly spend years coping with it and dealing with it. It may not ever be fully subsided or erased but to at least get a handle on it would be a huge gift. And I understand that this conversation isn't going to cure me or anything, but as I said before, this is all really invaluable to me and already feels deeply helpful.

As for you story, wow definitely comes to mind, especially for how you coped with everything. I won't pity you but I do admire you greatly for your strength and for your intelligence and insight, I'm not sure I could have ever dealt with a situation like that on my own. I think that's the most challenging thing you've told me though, to try and imagine my loved one in this situation and to eventually enjoy it. That's something that would take a whole lot of work for me. If our relationship ever comes to that, it's definitely something to keep in mind.

Quotehow many kinds of jealousy are there.....think it out loud Is there only one kind?

This, I'm kind of unsure about. There must be many variants of jealousy but I'm not so sure they effect me as much as this type, so I can't really bring any other instances to mind.

Quote from: Chaos on July 21, 2013, 06:05:25 AM
I have hot jealousy as well but im good at hiding it when i need to and most of the time jealousy is just from insecurity and fear of abandonment.Regardless of transition or not,i still had this issue and until i can face those things,i will always have them.I have been told im cute when i get jealous BUT i dont like the feeling.All i can say is man,one: dont look at your transition as a cause for it,because im pretty sure thats not an issue.not when it comes to jealousy anyway.I mean i myself realize that people will cheat/lie/leave regardless and i have seen this happen on both sides,so i can say that my transition or before,was never the cause but the person their self.With that in mind,i keep fear of those things *not transition related for me anyway* because of the things i do see i have wrong aka trust issues,and many other things i need to change.I think its a mix of the fighting instinct for what one has worked for but also fear knowing that we do have issues that could push someone away.For example,im not the hottest thing in the world but im a rare heart but if a hot dude comes around,yes i see what he has that i dont,so i get upset and jealous that he fills something i cant.I have gotten very angry and jealous over the smallest things as well and there have been times that i stopped and said *erm did i just do that?* my opinion is that *some* jealousy can be good but i feel that you need *along with myself* to put alot of things to rest and im sure it will make it alot better for you.

We're definitely really similar in how jealousy affects us and the reasonings behind it. I can relate a lot to what you said and I've found myself in similar situations. Hopefully you can find a way to calm your jealousy down a little, it really is such a tough thing to deal with and can be incredibly disheartening.

Quote from: ForWantOf on July 22, 2013, 02:05:11 PM
We're definitely really similar in how jealousy affects us and the reasonings behind it. I can relate a lot to what you said and I've found myself in similar situations. Hopefully you can find a way to calm your jealousy down a little, it really is such a tough thing to deal with and can be incredibly disheartening.

Indeed it can be and hard work but worth it.im glad to give someone you can relate to as far as this goes and i wish us both luck but you are a strong person so i have no worries for you.For me also,im kind of the same way when it comes to sexual interactions.its odd tho that i can have  sex when angry as it helps release but when it comes to heart ache/being hurt emotionally,i push people away and depending on how sever the pain is,it could also leave me sick to my stomach at the thought.this *for me* is a reaction to the emotional distress that comes with it and natural.but with me knowing that jealousy alone is due to ME being insecure,i tend to--how do you say? take my cool off time then go about it like nothing happened *regarding sex* i dont see them in a negative light.until proof is given they have done exactly what my fear tells me,then things change for good.of course there is always those *shifty eyes* to make sure your back is covered (in a sense) and that comes with all the scars one gains over a long period of time.i accepted my issues,fears,scars and tho its a hard battle,i have always been honest with those im with seriously *these are my issues and im insecure,so please bare with me and understand,help me to over come them and dont make them worse* thats the least i can do while i try to do just that.Keep pushing forward and as you learn more about yourself,the questions will find their answers

Quote from: ForWantOf on July 22, 2013, 02:01:42 PM
This is all invaluable information and something I can definitely get behind. I'll keep in mind that it will fail the first few times but I know with work this is definitely something I can do and something that will help a lot. Especially the parts bolded, this is really something I have to work on.
In all honesty, a lifetime doesn't seem out of reach. If that's what it would take then I'm definitely ready, and even less drastic, I would willingly spend years coping with it and dealing with it. It may not ever be fully subsided or erased but to at least get a handle on it would be a huge gift. And I understand that this conversation isn't going to cure me or anything, but as I said before, this is all really invaluable to me and already feels deeply helpful.

As for you story, wow definitely comes to mind, especially for how you coped with everything. I won't pity you but I do admire you greatly for your strength and for your intelligence and insight, I'm not sure I could have ever dealt with a situation like that on my own. I think that's the most challenging thing you've told me though, to try and imagine my loved one in this situation and to eventually enjoy it. That's something that would take a whole lot of work for me. If our relationship ever comes to that, it's definitely something to keep in mind.
This, I'm kind of unsure about. There must be many variants of jealousy but I'm not so sure they effect me as much as this type, so I can't really bring any other instances to mind.

morning matey thanx for the heads up and kind words.  U r way ahead of me at the same age.  I did not even get going on this until I was 27.  My niece, at 19 was talking to me about this stuff, growing into an awesome human being.

Here's another one I learned:

Jealousy is Hope and Inspiration that haven't opened their eyes yet.

I dunno where we came from.  U can look at this one either as a creationist or an evolutionary theorist.  They're both the same for this one, but seriously, how we are built, we grow fastest from pain, not from happiness.  If you look at jealousy as something you want to quell (not avoid or destroy) but, specifically, quell, then you have the magic ingredient for a trans-warp drive engine.  Because the fuel for the engine of motivation to learn is learning how to quell jealousy--internally--by detaching from the environment.  You go on an inward journey through wormholes in the mind's eye to new dimensions of self.  That's the sci fi metaphor for what you're learning.

I haven't stopped quelling, growing and learning.  There is no endpoint to this.  It's the first 50 quellings when done properly that accelerate your growth.  Each time you quell healthily, you set up for a faster quelling the next time.  There is an acceleration at work.  So, you can still expect jealousy, but less intense and more quickly resolved.

Self-soothing tools.  One day you'll be turned on and grinning ear to ear after your gf was cruised by someone else.  And your heart will swell with pride for her (cheer for her successes) and say to her you go girl!  Of course you're sexy and beautiful and I'm so happy for your success.

When you can take pride and happiness at her success--then you are also free--to admire other women and be a full being in that regard.  You won't need to make stealth looks at girls when you're around your gf.  You won't need to keep part of your sexual self secret (and the secrets are part of the base or root cause of jealousy.  The reason we keep secrets, in some instances, is because we are ashamed of ourselves for something, and so, the shame is a violation of self-worth and self-esteem.  And self-esteem, openness and transparency like a clear bottle of maturing wine is what you need to quell jealousy).

If you want to really get going on this.  Take the bull by the horns.  Why don't you invite your gf to start opening up to you about men or popstars she thinks are hot (e.g. hugh Jackman HOT or Matt Damon for me is someone I get wobbly kneed about) and begin the work of declaring the shame by declaring of hiding of the sexual self......You can say to her the truth--

I need to learn to let you go a little and be able to feel safe and I need to learn how to accept a basic truth about human nature--we never stop seeing others as hot just because we're married, and I want to outgrow my jealousy by learning how to quell that after I feel jealousy.  I'm going to hurt, but I'm going to own that and fix it.  Your not hurting me by telling me who you are, I'm hurting me, somehow, and I'm going on a fact-finding, super-sloothe, uber-overdrive healing journey.

Kind Regards

morning matey thanx for the heads up and kind words.  U r way ahead of me at the same age.  I did not even get going on this until I was 27.  My niece, at 19 was talking to me about this stuff, growing into an awesome human being.

Here's another one I learned:

Jealousy is Hope and Inspiration that haven't opened their eyes yet.

I dunno where we came from.  U can look at this one either as a creationist or an evolutionary theorist.  They're both the same for this one, but seriously, how we are built, we grow fastest from pain, not from happiness.  If you look at jealousy as something you want to quell (not avoid or destroy) but, specifically, quell, then you have the magic ingredient for a trans-warp drive engine.  Because the fuel for the engine of motivation to learn is learning how to quell jealousy--internally--by detaching from the environment.  You go on an inward journey through wormholes in the mind's eye to new dimensions of self.  That's the sci fi metaphor for what you're learning.

I haven't stopped quelling, growing and learning.  There is no endpoint to this.  It's the first 50 quellings when done properly that accelerate your growth.  Each time you quell healthily, you set up for a faster quelling the next time.  There is an acceleration at work.  So, you can still expect jealousy, but less intense and more quickly resolved.

Self-soothing tools.  One day you'll be turned on and grinning ear to ear after your gf was cruised by someone else.  And your heart will swell with pride for her (cheer for her successes) and say to her you go girl!  Of course you're sexy and beautiful and I'm so happy for your success.

When you can take pride and happiness at her success--then you are also free--to admire other women and be a full being in that regard.  You won't need to make stealth looks at girls when you're around your gf.  You won't need to keep part of your sexual self secret (and the secrets are part of the base or root cause of jealousy.  The reason we keep secrets, in some instances, is because we are ashamed of ourselves for something, and so, the shame is a violation of self-worth and self-esteem.  And self-esteem, openness and transparency like a clear bottle of maturing wine is what you need to quell jealousy).

If you want to really get going on this.  Take the bull by the horns.  Why don't you invite your gf to start opening up to you about men or popstars she thinks are hot (e.g. hugh Jackman HOT or Matt Damon for me is someone I get wobbly kneed about) and begin the work of declaring the shame by declaring of hiding of the sexual self......You can say to her the truth--

I need to learn to let you go a little and be able to feel safe and I need to learn how to accept a basic truth about human nature--we never stop seeing others as hot just because we're married, and I want to outgrow my jealousy by learning how to quell that after I feel jealousy.  I'm going to hurt, but I'm going to own that and fix it.  You're not hurting me by telling me who you are, I'm hurting me, somehow, and I'm going on a fact-finding, super-sloothe, uber-overdrive healing journey.

Kind Regards
stav

Are we done matey feel free to continue as much as you like, but you may have enough info yet?

.....and

types of jealousy

1. territorial/possessively expressed=attempts to use anger and control tools to limit the freedom of others, in order to avoid looking at the self.
2. competitive jealousy=using jealousy as a tool, by doing something to make our loved ones jealous (e.g. flirting with others, deliberately, as strategy to hurt our partners, rather than honest flirtations which are internally referential).
3. alpha jealousy='jealous of the 'other guy' and afraid of losing my partner'.
4. beta jealousy='jealous of my partner's experience of flirting and getting turned on by another person... I want some action too).

make sense?

I think that's a very nice way to wrap things up, and again I couldn't thank you enough for everything you've already taught me. I've already had chances to apply some of the mental lessons you've given me and although it's tough, I know everything will help me greatly.

I actually have everything you've written saved in a little text file for further reading and so I can think about it all some more and certainly in the future. I also hope that somebody else on these forums could take help from your words because they're really quite insightful and all of that. 

I hope that you can continue to keep a hold on your jealousy and even better yet that you don't have to experience much at all. You're a great guy and you deserve all the happiness and attractive partners in the world haha.

Oh and your niece is incredibly lucky to have you to go to for advice!

So thank you again for everything and I hope you know your words haven't fallen at all on deaf ears, this is all endlessly helpful to me. 

Quote from: Chaos on July 22, 2013, 02:57:03 PM
Indeed it can be and hard work but worth it.im glad to give someone you can relate to as far as this goes and i wish us both luck but you are a strong person so i have no worries for you.For me also,im kind of the same way when it comes to sexual interactions.its odd tho that i can have  sex when angry as it helps release but when it comes to heart ache/being hurt emotionally,i push people away and depending on how sever the pain is,it could also leave me sick to my stomach at the thought.this *for me* is a reaction to the emotional distress that comes with it and natural.but with me knowing that jealousy alone is due to ME being insecure,i tend to--how do you say? take my cool off time then go about it like nothing happened *regarding sex* i dont see them in a negative light.until proof is given they have done exactly what my fear tells me,then things change for good.of course there is always those *shifty eyes* to make sure your back is covered (in a sense) and that comes with all the scars one gains over a long period of time.i accepted my issues,fears,scars and tho its a hard battle,i have always been honest with those im with seriously *these are my issues and im insecure,so please bare with me and understand,help me to over come them and dont make them worse* thats the least i can do while i try to do just that.Keep pushing forward and as you learn more about yourself,the questions will find their answers

I also tend to push people away when I'm in any kind of bad mood, whether it's anger or sadness or whatever. I tend to just shell up and keep all of my problems to myself which is bad. The very first thing I learned about jealousy, and something you mentioned, is being open about it. Being open and communication are essential when you have jealousy issues, seething over it in secret is never the way to go and can be harmful to both parties. Acceptance is also a great help, there's really no use in denying it.

It is really great to finally be able to relate to somebody about all of this and I hope you can do the same or derive some kind of help from this thread. 

thank you for ur trusty, matey.  this was a sensitive topic in many ways.

I hope u come back and let us know how this one plays out for u over time.....and also thank u for allowing us to help you.  Ur a good man.

best regards to u - stav

Tristan on Jealousy
Jace- Jealousy