For the last ten months I have been wearing female clothes, full time.

I work (don't get payed) at a british red cross charity shop. The manager we had before and our area manager have always been fine with what I wear and been very supportive.

They knew I had to wear female clothes as part of my RLE.

We now have a new manager, who yesterday had a talk to me about other things not to do with my gender or what I wear.

But then she started to talk about what I wear. She said "i need to wear jeans or trousers and a normal top as we have a lot of older people come into our shop and they won't like it"

Now to me, that sounds like she is trying to say "they won't like it because I'm a man in female clothes".

She even said she does not want me on the till point all the time. (Thats always been my job since starting four years ago)

What I wear (most times) is denim shorts like most of the girls wear with black tights or black leggings and a really nice girly top. Does that sound wrong to you? I can't even wear a skirt as she wants my legs covered up!!

I was told by our other manager, last year, when we were talking about what I would be wearing when I come in as Bethany, for the first time. And she said, shorts are fine as long as they are not long or baggy round the legs and if you always were tights or leggings with them.

Our new manager (who started last month) has her husband working there and she has told me (yesterday) that he does not like people like me!!

Now I understand that next month I will of finished my 1 year RLE (not told her that) but I will still be wearing female clothes after that.

Can my manager make me wear what 'she' feels the older shoppers will like, now or after my RLE and do you think like me, that maybe her husband has had something to say?

What are the laws where you live? In my area there is a law forbidding discrimination based on "gender presentation". If that had happened here, that would have been blatantly illegal.

Do you have any local LGBT organizations you can ask?

In the UK we have the same laws. What If she says, the customers have had things to say? Do I do what I want to do and tell her, if I can't wear female clothes, then I can't work there?

I will no dress 'down' for anyone. and it's going to look stupid if I come in with makeup on and a ladies hair style, wearing jeans and a normal top (when I still look like man).

It's bad enough now, people not always knowing if I am a man or woman, but thankfully, most think I am a woman with what I wear.

You should document these comments and the names of anyone close by who overheard the conversation along with time and date, I'm assuming there will be more. You may need some ammunition for a legal representative in the near future. As long as you don't have a lot of flesh showing and your clothing style fits in with other female employees, the woman and her husband don't have a leg to stand on because then it clearly becomes a case of gender discrimination.

Yeah I would look at your chain of command and before you use that I would talk with a human rights lawyer about what to say and do when you speak to your manager so you can do this legally by the book. It protects you and sets you up for a win if she and her husband get to out of line

It does sound like discrimination. Do you have any contract? This is going to be a difficult one as you have no employment agreement.

http://www.hrreview.co.uk/hr-news/employment-law/volunteers-do-not-have-same-legal-rights-as-staff/40579

Go up the ladder.  Contact the area manger.  If there has been no complaints before this manager's installment, it is just how she and her husband view it.

Can cis-women wear those types of clothes? If they can, but you can't, that is discrimination. Otoh, if there is a store-wide policy that is simply a dress code.

My guess is the manger is not comfortable with your transition...she needs to be educated on the matter, perhaps by the next person up the "ladder."

What I am going to do first, is text her (easier) before I start tomorrow. I am just going to say what the NHS DR said in London to me "As part of your RLE, we don't like you wearing jeans or trousers. We like you to wear things that make you stand out, so people can see your a man in female clothes"

And to me that sounds just right. What would be the point of someone saying "well I'll do my RLE but I'll just wear jeans, trainers and t-shirt"? That is what I wore as a man and I was NOT even happy in myself wearing them.

When I started wearing Bethany's clothes, for the first time in my life, I was so happy in myself and have been ever since that day. Before then I was always told what to wear by my mum as she did not like the men's clothes I'd wear as she thought, Topman clothes were for kids. Now my mum loves everything I wear.

There is no way I'm I going back to being un happy again.

I am sure for most people MTF or FTM, the clothes they now wear are a big part of being who they want to be. That is the same for me.

She says I've got her full support, but then tells me about my clothes and what other people will think!!

Our dress code is, wear what you like as long as you are not showing all you've got.

And another thing, the older people who work in our shop, love what I wear....

Yay! Go get 'em, girl!

Yes, the clothes and makeup I wear IS a big part of me...I can't stand wearing guy clothes at all, not even underwear (which no one sees, but me)

Quotethe NHS DR said in London to me "As part of your RLE, we don't like you wearing jeans or trousers. We like you to wear things that make you stand out, so people can see your a man in female clothes"

So RLE is truly an official way of saying, "Look at me! I'm a man wearing women's clothes!" ...where's that image of RLE=hazing..? 

But you do look good, Bethany...

Well the UK system is a bit bad in many ways but still.  What she is doing is direct discrimination in UK law and prohibited.  Ask her to get it in writing for your dr for rle.  Tell her u can't do it until u have.  When u have that tell her u have found out it is direct discrimination so u won't be doing it anyway.  That way if she decides to try and change her story later on she won't be able to lie.

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on July 21, 2013, 01:53:56 PM
Well the UK system is a bit bad in many ways but still.  What she is doing is direct discrimination in UK law and prohibited.  Ask her to get it in writing for your dr for rle.  Tell her u can't do it until u have.  When u have that tell her u have found out it is direct discrimination so u won't be doing it anyway.  That way if she decides to try and change her story later on she won't be able to lie.

Good leveraging tactic Akira, are you sure that you aren't a lawyer in absentia?

Volunteer work and she's gonna' slam someone with a dresscode? Her husband don't like people like us? I would definately get a letter from the doctor stating the terms for RLE and give it to your manager.

Don't worry.. She now knows!!

I said "I have to wear clothes that make me stand out so people say "look he's a man in female clothes and to show my Psychiatrist that I really need to change my gender" .

Ok her husband does not like it, but how does she think I feel, when I have people look and say things or find me funny?

I have noticed how her husband calls me 'he'. I will leave it for now but if there is anything else said by her (or him), I will be speaking to the area manager.

And thankfully, others I work with are fine and said I wear nice things, and one lady said "you've been Beth for a long time now, so you don't change for her". And they said "if her husband does not like it, he should go"

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 21, 2013, 12:30:54 PM
I am just going to say what the NHS DR said in London to me "As part of your RLE, we don't like you wearing jeans or trousers. We like you to wear things that make you stand out, so people can see your a man in female clothes"

Really? WTF??? So they dont want You actually blend in???

Well, if you blend in that is fine. But what they are saying is this "if you wear a t-shirt, jeans and trainers, how is that making you look female?".

Understand that, as a man, I use to wear jeans, t-shirt and trainers, so If I still wore them, I would look just like I did as a man.

Trust me, If you don't look female in what you are wearing NHS gender clinics in the UK turn you away at your first appointment.

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 22, 2013, 12:36:47 PM
Don't worry.. She now knows!!

I said "I have to wear clothes that make me stand out so people say "look he's a man in female clothes" and so I look like a female".

Ok her husband does not like it, but how does she think I feel, when I have people look and say things or find me funny?

I have noticed how her husband calls me 'he'. I will leave it for now but if there is anything else said by her (or him), I will be speaking to the area manager.

And thankfully, others I work with are fine and said I wear nice things, and one lady said "you've been Beth for a long time now, so you don't change for her". And they said "if her husband does not like it, he should go"

I have to admit that I am taken aback more about the sadistic nature of your NHS gender specialist than your manager. Seriously, your doctor requires you to be humiliated in such a way as to "look like a man in female clothes" before taking you seriously? We are in the 21st century and this is what we can expect today of the NHS? I'm sorry but that upsets me. Have they prescribed HRT yet?

Any good gender clinic would say the same. RLE is something you have to do by law. You do NOT have a choice.

No one is making you do RLE but if you don't do it (in the UK) you can't change your gender. And to me that is right.

I know me, and how I could not cope any longer and that I would do what ever it took to change my gender.

If a gender clinic is happy to give you HRT and just send you away, that is up to that clinic. But I can tell you now, that is not how a clinic should work. I know, because, I've been to a clinic just like that, who didn't do anything by the book, let alone care if you wore female clothes or not.

Things worldwide have changed. Back in the day it was three years RLE by law before any sort of HRT!! So I think a year or even three years of RLE and HRT at the same time sounds ok to me. And in the UK you don't have to wear a skirt if you don't want to!! I don't and still look female or a man in female clothes.

I'm I missing something? I thought RLE was to show how much you needed to change your gender and if you really wanted SRS?

Stick your middle finger in the air and tell the bitch to spin on it.That's what I'd do