Quote from: Asfsd4214 on July 23, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
RLE is a joke, a sadistic joke.

And here is why. And I ask anyone reading to keep an open mind here...

What is the point of the RLE.... the point I think most would agree is to ensure that you can live life as your gender of identification in practice as well as theory.

To that end, what IS living as your gender of identification? I would put forward that it is by definition any form of living that involves people perceiving you as your identified gender and those people behaving towards you the same as they would anyone else.

You have really found the words that sum up how ridiculous RLE is under the form practised by by the NHS and similar institutions in France and elsewhere. If RLE is supposed to be about living in your gender of identification, part of the experience should actually consist of the looking the part as otherwise people are not reacting to you as a member of your assumed gender but rather as a man in a dress or something similar.  How these self appointed experts can't see this obvious process defect is totally beyond me and apart from getting a really thick skin,(not necessarily a negative BTW)  I'd be very curious to know what exactly you learn from that?

Against that, if you actually do look the part, RLE can be a very validating and positive experience and yes I am speaking from experience as I do not at all dispute the value in living full time for a significant period of time before doing something as radical as GRS. I am really happy with my self administered RLE as pretty well all the time I am perceived as a woman confirming me in the idea that I am much happier in this position than I was prior to setting out on this journey. How difficult is it for all of these experts to understand that, unless of course the intent all along is simply to discourage as many people as possible from moving forward with their transition??

Again, I feel huge sympathy with those that have no obvious alternative choice but God, don't let anyone try to convince me that the whole process, as described by Bethany, is anything other than extraordinarily shameful and perverse. When people look back on this 5, 10, 15 years down the road it will be compared with initiatives like the forced sterilisation of Aborigines in Australia or the Magdalene laundries in Ireland ie. something that looked OK at the time but profoundly shameful with hindsight.

Aaaagh!
Donna

Not everyone is told to do the RLE (in the UK or other countries where it MUST be done), as they choose to go full time from day one.

I don't think it is right to make out that no one wants to do RLE or go full time from day one.

The reason I went full time from day one is because I wanted to be Bethany. It wasn't to do with the RLE.

Even if the RLE did not need to be done in the UK, I wouldn't of let my boss make me change what I wear.

With the first clinic I was under, you didn't even have to do any RLE. That said, you wouldn't of even changed at the clinic anyway, to feel ready to go full time at any point.

The NHS clinic is not as good as it could be and they do make it hard for you to get to where you want to be. But If you stick at it and do all they ask of you, you will get there in the end.

But I went to my GP last may and I am still waiting for my first appointment with the NHS gender clinic in London. But all I need the NHS for now is my voice and SRS.

So what is the point of doing RLE for SRS if YOU can wait till you've changed to do it? I see NO point at all as you would of changed and things you wear would match you.

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 24, 2013, 02:23:08 AM
So what is the point of doing RLE for SRS if YOU can wait till you've changed to do it? I see NO point at all as you would of have changed and things you wear would match you.

Are you suggesting that one is "cheating" their way through RLE if one looks 100% female at the start of RLE? May I humbly suggest that the idea that one must be put through some sort of metaphorical medieval torture device to see how much one wants to live the gender role one has chosen is utterly incorrect. Sorry, I cannot express strongly enough how I feel about this. This is not the point of RLE and never was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_experience_%28transgender%29
http://www.trans-health.com/2003/real-life-test/

Uh huh That is sort of the same thing which I am trying to achieve with my "self-administered RLE" - I like this term, used by Donna Elvira, very much . I see what are the things which help me to blend, what are the reactions/responses from those knowing me and complete strangers, and it also allows for those close to me to adjust. Then, taking into consideration what works and what does not work for me, I would proceed with next steps .

I am also very curious to learn how NHS helps with voice - I never heard about that . Are they offering lessons or surgery?

Quote from: -Emily- on July 24, 2013, 05:15:56 AM
Uh huh That is sort of the same thing which I am trying to achieve with my "self-administered RLE" - I like this term, used by Donna Elvira, very much . I see what are the things which help me to blend, what are the reactions/responses from those knowing me and complete strangers, and it also allows for those close to me to adjust. Then, taking into consideration what works and what does not work for me, I would proceed with next steps .

I am also very curious to learn how NHS helps with voice - I never heard about that . Are they offering lessons or surgery?

Actually, at the start of my transition, the NHS gave me a surgery date for CTA. I hadn't even started RLE at that point and my name was still male. I think I was pretty lucky how the NHS treated me back then. I cancelled because I managed with voice therapy alone. Personally, I think CTA is crude. They also provided speech therapy.

Also, I was 99.9% passable at the start of my RLE. Because of that, RLE for me was a piece of cake.

What is CTA???
I was told that I could be quite passable after the HRT - with or without makeup, but currently with some remaining facial hair I could only pass from a distance with gender neutral dress .

Quote from: -Emily- on July 24, 2013, 05:37:56 AM
What is CTA???

Cricothyroid approximation surgery used to feminise the voice:
http://voicedoctor.net/surgery/pitch/cricothyroid-approximation

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I was told that I could be quite passable after the HRT - with or without makeup, but currently with some remaining facial hair I could only pass from a distance with gender neutral dress .

Fantastic. It sounds like you're quite happy with progress so far.

So You would not suggest the CTA?

Yes, I am happy, but I am also the greatest enemy of my own . I feel like I am entering that in-between stage when I start drawing unnecessary and unwanted attention (RLE, here I go!) - and there is nothing from my previous life which could help me to cope with that. If somebody stared at me, I used to stare back with blank expression until one of us broke - not me usually, because I knew dirty tricks about this game . Now, I usually disengage and then check back after 5-7 secs and if they are still looking, I start getting nervous.

Quote from: -Emily- on July 24, 2013, 06:07:17 AM
So You would not suggest the CTA?

It leaves quite a long scar. The recovery period is not optimal. The one TS I knew that had undergone the procedure spoke in a falsetto tone that sounded more like Mickey Mouse than a female. I did not want to sound like that. It instantly put me off.

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Yes, I am happy, but I am also the greatest enemy of my own . I feel like I am entering that in-between stage when I start drawing unnecessary and unwanted attention (RLE, here I go!) - and there is nothing from my previous life which could help me to cope with that. If somebody stared at me, I used to stare back with blank expression until one of us broke - not me usually, because I knew dirty tricks about this game . Now, I usually disengage and then check back after 5-7 secs and if they are still looking, I start getting nervous.

Those days were scary and exhilarating at the same time. On the underground it was worse where you couldn't escape. It's all good though. If you don't get stares then you have more of a problem.

Quote from: Nicolette on July 24, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
Are you suggesting that one is "cheating" their way through RLE if one looks 100% female at the start of RLE? May I humbly suggest that the idea that one must be put through some sort of metaphorical medieval torture device to see how much one wants to live the gender role one has chosen is utterly incorrect. Sorry, I cannot express strongly enough how I feel about this. This is not the point of RLE and never was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_experience_%28transgender%29
http://www.trans-health.com/2003/real-life-test/

No I am not suggesting one is cheating. I am saying if you look totally female after HRT what is the point of RLE? In the UK the point of RLE (no matter what RLE should really be about), is to look like a man in female clothes, like I've said.

So lets's say you payed for all your HRT and then only needed the NHS for SRS, it would be stupid if they wanted you to now start your RLE, looking like a female.

That said, they would want you to be wearing female clothes, of changed your name and be living full time as a female. So would that be enough RLE for the NHS?

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 24, 2013, 10:15:07 AM
That said, they would want you to be wearing female clothes, of changed your name and be living full time as a female. So would that be enough RLE for the NHS?

Absolutely. I transitioned in the UK in the 90s and had never read any clause in any documentation that suggests that one has to look like a man in women's clothing for a valid RLE. If someone has told you this then I can tell you with complete certainty that this information is wrong. You deserve all the help you can get to pass as female. RLE is simply to determine whether you are happy living 24/7 in the female role. This is so that when you get to the point of undergoing irreversible surgery you will not then suddenly decide that living as a female is not for you with all the regret that entails.

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 24, 2013, 10:13:19 AM
No I am not suggesting one is cheating. I am saying if you look totally female after HRT what is the point of RLE? In the UK the point of RLE (no matter what RLE should really be about), is to look like a man in female clothes, like I've said.

So lets's say you payed for all your HRT and then only needed the NHS for SRS, it would be stupid if they wanted you to now start your RLE, looking like a female.

What is the point indeed....

Quote from: Nicolette on July 24, 2013, 10:24:20 AM
RLE is simply to determine whether you are happy living 24/7 in the female role.

Yes, It's that as well. But you have to take all the crap that may come with RLE. Like a lot would say "I can't wear female clothes, I am still a man"

You can make yourself look as female as you like, but what the NHS are saying is, you have to be able to go out there and have people look at you funny or see you as a man.

My NHS DR said "you have to go out there as a man in female clothes". He did not say "you have to wear a skirt and high heeled shoes, and keep everything else like a man". He did say "so people can see you're a man in female clothes". But I am sure any NHS DR will know that not everyone will see you're a man.

Look what happened to me today: I was getting breakfast at the train station and the guy serving me said is that all "sir" and that's £2.95 "sir", then I had three people later that morning talk about me in another language, one asked me in english if I was "ok" then as they walked on kept looking back at me. But then in a shop someone called me " lady".

So the point I am making, you can make yourself look as female as you like, but you will get people who can tell you're a man.

And just going back to what my very first post. I have been told by a staff member at another red cross shop that I must to tell the area manager what my boss said. Not sure if I should though....

Had a text from a staff member from another red cross shop. Our area manager knows what was said from my boss. She just needs to know word word, from me what was said. I'll be telling her 2mro. Will post here, when I can tell you more.

Just got a message from a a transgender friend who use to volunteer for a Red Cross Shop. She has told the manager at the Bolton shop (NOT the one I work at) what was said by my boss to me. My friend said this:

"Transgenderphobia is a criminal offence and your manager needs to know this and that as a trangsendered person you are protected under the vulnerable adult laws"

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 24, 2013, 03:47:56 PM
Just got a message from a a transgender friend who use to volunteer for a Red Cross Shop. She has told the manager at the Bolton shop (NOT the one I work at) what was said by my boss to me. My friend said this:

"Transgenderphobia is a criminal offence and your manager needs to know this and that as a trangsendered person you are protected under the vulnerable adult laws"

There you go Bethany, you need to share that with your manager!

Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on July 24, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
Yes, It's that as well. But you have to take all the crap that may come with RLE. Like a lot would say "I can't wear female clothes, I am still a man"

You can make yourself look as female as you like, but what the NHS are saying is, you have to be able to go out there and have people look at you funny or see you as a man.

My NHS DR said "you have to go out there as a man in female clothes". He did not say "you have to wear a skirt and high heeled shoes, and keep everything else like a man". He did say "so people can see you're a man in female clothes". But I am sure any NHS DR will know that not everyone will see you're a man.

This was probably meant to be taken figuratively. But a worse case scenario is if you're taken as a "man", even with your best efforts (even with HRT and FFS), can you handle that? Not only that, can you handle that for the rest of your life?

Quote
Look what happened to me today: I was getting breakfast at the train station and the guy serving me said is that all "sir" and that's £2.95 "sir", then I had three people later that morning talk about me in another language, one asked me in english if I was "ok" then as they walked on kept looking back at me. But then in a shop someone called me " lady".

So the point I am making, you can make yourself look as female as you like, but you will get people who can tell you're a man.

This is where HRT can really help. But rest assured, you won't have people telling you that you're a "man" once you've been on HRT for a while.