Hello, didn't post here for a long while, but I'd really appreciate some advice...

I just don't know, if I assiduously avoid contact with anything that reminds me of transgender I sort of forget about it all. I feel almost all right, as if I'm perfectly normal cismale, those things around my nipples aren't breasts, this whole business of projecting male image isn't an act...

The problem being that I'm still bisexual, and so not going back into closet, so I read LGBT news, support sites, occasionally meet trans*people in some social/activism context, and frankly, gender always fascinated me even in my denial days, - now I can't lend my Kindle to my mother because, well, half the books there are about gender or crossdressing... And sometimes all it takes is some bit of news about "boys being boys and doing boy things" and I'm disgusted and all I can think of is "you can transition and never ever be associated with people like them again." Or those urges from nowhere to buy and wear female clothes... Or wishes for a more feminine body when I look in the mirror.

It's very confusing. I just want my brain to settle on something definite, and it does not.

You're experiencing what a lot of us do. We can suppress our feelings for periods of time, but most people find that they still come back.

I don't think reading or hearing about transgender will move you in that direction if you're not already trans.

A wise trans friend once said that cisgendered people pretty much never wonder about their gender. If you find it difficult to suppress thoughts of being a different gender, that could be your brain trying to tell you something.

Hope this helps.

You're probably right. When I've re-read the OP it pretty much sounded the opposite of "talking myself into being transgender." I'm just unsure of where on the spectrum I really am.

Quote from: ac110 on July 25, 2013, 04:56:13 AM
I'm just unsure of where on the spectrum I really am.

Here's where a gender therapist could help.

Quote from: suzifrommd on July 25, 2013, 07:30:11 AM
Here's where a gender therapist could help.

Agree.

It sound to me like your're more queerminded and agenst the idea of gender binary and certain genderoles.

transition from male to female or opposite as transexual won't make the genderoles vanish, in fact they might get even stronger by prejugde
so the statement: "you can transition and never ever be associated with people like them again." dosen't really last.

I used to heard from people how I wore boy clothing and my mom complained about me having short hair being expected to be more femenine bla bla,
Now she complain when it turns too long and people point out how femenine I do this or that, and if I go on the street people have an jugde on me how im suposed to be or not, also in the trans comunety theres gender-norms depending on where you go.

so just pointing out being queer or trans* dosent make you free from them, not even free from people beliving your like them, I bet it depends on how you look, but most days I look rather casual so people belive im "casual" also in way of viewing gender.
-
you can sure be queer or trans* I think your facinating of the idea and being influensed by it which I see as good, I will say I also view things diffrently now than before, I think its natural when you get a new knowlegde of something.

but whatever it fit you or not is an inner felling, I dont know the line of talking yourself into something, I belive you can look up many aspects and be facinate or experimenting of it but if it honestly dont fit you, you would will notice. 

maybe insteed of wishing your brain to be seetle give it some time, most transgenders do not settle there mind there first day, they go thought a process even those who "always knowed" still use much time on when the right time is taking each fight at a time.

So relax taking it babystep, you dont need to define yourself anything from day 1.

I smiled when I read the thread title because this phrase "talking myself into"  really struck a chord with how I have felt over a few days this week.
I finally got my referral to see the specialist so I started really thinking about what I was doing and what I would tell him/her.
I then realised that I was afraid. I was afraid that I might at some point realise that I was cis. I'm not sure why this scared me so much, but I realised the only way to deal with that fear is to confront it. so I went through the process of analysing what it would mean to never make any changes to myself and 'accept' being a man.
through opening up and going through that difficult self questioning,  it reminded me of some important things.
it doesn't matter what labels are used. it doesn't matter what you identify as, it doesn't matter to what extent you want to change yourself, what matters is that you do what you feel is right and what feels good.
so after that, I just concentrated on making my hips more pronounced and my waist slimmer. that is all I can do for now, then when I see the specialist I want to find out where my hormones are at and get them balanced in a way that I feel is appropriate.

If people think I'm a boy, no worries. if people think I'm a girl... *mental, self high five*
yeah, but my gender expression is not overly feminine anyway.

Hey AC

I think you have it just right about being on that "spectrum."  It can feel like a moving target for many of us as one change leads to another that we may not have foreseen.  The binary preferred by the masses is pervasive in this culture.  Prior to coming out trans I too "forgot about" much of my trans ideas & urges and repression just isn't sustainable without a big cost.  Suzi's wise friend called it right too; most people do not spend time wondering or worrying about gender.  Also an out bisexual for decades I have found that some of my male gay friends are stepping back from me as I "join the other team."  There are profound consequences to all of this change.  Eat well and stay strong.

Thanks everyone.

Natkat, that's very perceptive... Yes, I'm pretty sure of "not a boy" part, it's something I "always knew" (with 20/20 hindsight.) But being "a girl" with her own set of  "girl things" to do in order to be accepted as one (often even more arbitrary and bewildering than "boy things" I so hate... I'm still more comfortable with at least some of them than with their masculine counterparts.)

Jker86, Thanks I sort of came to a similar conclusion as far as my bisexuality goes: Whoever makes me "a honest (wo)man" wouldn't make me straight or gay, I would always be me, and can identify however I choose.

Tessa James, thanks. Yes, whatever I decide to do in the end, there would be profound changes. But on the other hand, the way I was brought up sort of prepared me for change and chaos and bad news, even if it didn't prepare me for being as queer as I apparently am. So, I think I can sort through these things easier than through all this internal bewilderment.

I still sometimes think I'm talking into it, or that I'm possibly misreading sexual urges as how I want to live in general (my trans identity started by crossdressing and how it effected my sex life). I kind of realized though that I am 3 weeks into a 5 week period where I have to be male for a job and have no personal time while working (it's a summer camp with 2 ten day sessions, 2 eight day sessions. When students are here I work all day, so no time to just de-stress and be myself and take off the maleness). I've kind of realized that the stress I'm feeling because of this is a sign that my feelings are real and I really need to see a therapist when I get back to school.

Quote from: ac110 on July 24, 2013, 04:28:44 PM
Hello, didn't post here for a long while, but I'd really appreciate some advice...

I just don't know, if I assiduously avoid contact with anything that reminds me of transgender I sort of forget about it all. I feel almost all right, as if I'm perfectly normal cismale, those things around my nipples aren't breasts, this whole business of projecting male image isn't an act...

The problem being that I'm still bisexual, and so not going back into closet, so I read LGBT news, support sites, occasionally meet trans*people in some social/activism context, and frankly, gender always fascinated me even in my denial days, - now I can't lend my Kindle to my mother because, well, half the books there are about gender or crossdressing... And sometimes all it takes is some bit of news about "boys being boys and doing boy things" and I'm disgusted and all I can think of is "you can transition and never ever be associated with people like them again." Or those urges from nowhere to buy and wear female clothes... Or wishes for a more feminine body when I look in the mirror.

It's very confusing. I just want my brain to settle on something definite, and it does not.

It's not about doing "boy" things, or dressing like a male, or acting like a guy.  Those are all social constructs (for the most part) and a result of your male socialization.

It is really about your gender identity.  How you see yourself inside.  And if your maleness is distressing, and a female presentation intrigues you, then you might be transgendered.  But that's not any sort of thing that is easy to work out.

My first tip, when I was a teen, was being comfortable as a bisexual.

I feel the same. I have, for as long as I have been sexually active, wanted to experience sexual release from a woman's perspective. I have since experimented sexually as close as I can without having the surgery. I am in a hetero marriage currently although a person's sex hasn't ever played a role in my attraction. I believe I still want to become a woman at some point in my life,but I absolutely have no problems with my penis(I happen to love it!) I just believe I would love having a vagina more. I have always been in love with the thought of being a hermaphrodite and if I could I would choose that over becoming a full blown woman.

I couldn't find the post so I could just copy myself (so quotable he is   ) anyway here goes. I don't think the "average person" thinks about gender it just is. In fact, I believe our society punishes thinking about it, esp to little MAAB people, but to some extent everybody (so a FAAB will be told--"she's such a cute little girl in her tomboy phase"-- see you're in a PHASE) . I think if you think about gender you probably are trans in some way or another (though you might not be "transsexual" for lack of a better term). IOW you might not be someone who gets hormones and surgery.
But I agree with others, the roles are NOT gender identity. Your gender identity is more deep and internal and it is the sense of yourself as male or female. It took me about a year once I actually knew I was trans to work out just how trans I was. As it happened pretty much!


--Jay

I agree with some of the other replies in this thread. You should try and focus on the concept of living 100% "male" and compare that to your thoughts of being 100% "female" and see which you feel represents you better and why. Now I understand there are more than 2 genders, but I found using the "extremes" gave me valuable insight about myself. It can be tricky with materialistic things such as clothing because there is a difference between "I like that article of clothing" and "I love how those pants make my body look." For example I hate how I look in female clothing as a "male", it causes depression because I desire to have a feminine body with that. Hopefully that example wasn't confusing. So just take your time with each concept and try to be fully honest with yourself.

I think what causes so much confusion is the strict gender stereotypes in place.

For example it's more socially acceptable for a woman to act more masculine than it is for a man to act more feminine.

In fact here in the UK I barely hear women get called tom boys if they act boyish. But if a guy strays anyway away from the designated mens section of a drug store then they get branded "metrosexuals". And that applies to any man who is more concerned with grooming than the average man. It's ridiculous.

If there wasn't so much fubar stereotypes perhaps we wouldn't have so many problems in society.

Quote from: ac110 on July 24, 2013, 04:28:44 PMOr those urges from nowhere to buy and wear female clothes... Or wishes for a more feminine body when I look in the mirror.

Obviously, I haven't a clue about your circumstances, but could you try, just for once, to wear women's clothes and make-up and then look at yourself in the mirror and see how you like it? Then at least you'll learn a little something about yourself instead of merely wondering about the possibilities.

The most important thing, no matter what, is to always be honest with yourself. Make a "no BS" deal with yourself. Don't try to overanalyze or rationalize things. When you reflect on these thoughts and feelings about possibly being trans, ask yourself what feels right. You generally know when you're lying to yourself or not following your heart. The more chatter that builds in your mind, the more that any feelings of "rightness" or "wrongness" can get obscured. Meditation might be useful.

The point that cisgender people typically don't question their gender identity is worth repeating. The femme gay guys, butch lesbians, and drag queens/kings are happy to identify with their genders assigned at birth. Even cross-dressers can reconcile the need to dress with their otherwise cisgender feelings.

The tipping point for me was looking into the future, thinking about a lifetime of living with a male identity. It terrified me. That's when I knew that I had to pursue a different path, or else my dysphoria would only accumulate in the years ahead, and I would find myself regretting that I hadn't transitioned decades earlier. So ask yourself, would you be content with living as a male for the rest of your life? Or do you imagine that you would increasingly feel like you were living a lie?

Remember that you don't have to be 100% MTF. Being androgynous is just fine, too.

Quote from: Silvermist on July 28, 2013, 08:42:50 PM

The point that cisgender people typically don't question their gender identity is worth repeating. The femme gay guys, butch lesbians, and drag queens/kings are happy to identify with their genders assigned at birth. Even cross-dressers can reconcile the need to dress with their otherwise cisgender feelings.


Remember that you don't have to be 100% MTF. Being androgynous is just fine, too.

The guy that runs the trans center here talks a LOT about this. There are penalties for questioning gender, so the drive to NOT do it would be very strong (esp for MAAB people). ANd it is also true that there are many cis people who have a different presentation that still ID as their assigned at birth gender.

You might like reading the Androgyne forum. Lots of people fit in there.

--Jay

I can see where you are coming from. There are times when I feel like all of this could just be a phase but i'll snap out of it. Usually this is because of the constant pressure that my parents put on me and the ramifications of transitioning at school, even though I really look forward to it. You may find that it helps to start going through the process of transitioning by finding a therapist, ect. If you are just talking yourself into it, you'll probably realize it after you see a therapist and if not, they will help you feel more comfortable with being trans.

The best advice I got was: If you're even asking yourself if you're trans, you owe it to yourself to explore it.

Play with makeup. Dress up. See how it feels. If it feels wrong, then you'll know. But if it makes you happy, see where it takes you. You owe it to yourself to explore these feelings, and it can't hurt if you do it in private.

Wow That's a lot of replies! Sorry I can't answer everyone, but I really appreciate all the advice and experience.

Quote from: Silvermist on July 28, 2013, 08:42:50 PM
Obviously, I haven't a clue about your circumstances, but could you try, just for once, to wear women's clothes and make-up and then look at yourself in the mirror and see how you like it? Then at least you'll learn a little something about yourself instead of merely wondering about the possibilities.

I do dress occasionally, I wish I could do that more. It's nothing too extravagant or over-sexualized, just some cheap supermarket clothing and basic makeup. And what I learned from that is that, well, I know I'm awful at that, but I really like myself more. Before I started to experiment, I just didn't like to look in the mirror, take photos or anything like that. Again, I knew I'm actually rather good-looking but I formlessly hated everything about my body.

Now, well, I feel very confident when dressed, I only do wish I could do that more often. And when looking at my male body, I'm sort of OK with it, but do wish it was more feminine... And, as I said, from time to time there is that feeling that I must do it.

Quote from: Silvermist on July 28, 2013, 08:42:50 PM

The tipping point for me was looking into the future, thinking about a lifetime of living with a male identity. It terrified me. That's when I knew that I had to pursue a different path, or else my dysphoria would only accumulate in the years ahead, and I would find myself regretting that I hadn't transitioned decades earlier. So ask yourself, would you be content with living as a male for the rest of your life? Or do you imagine that you would increasingly feel like you were living a lie?

That's a really tough one. I definitely don't want a "normal guy's life" and I'd definitely be more comfortable being "a girl" of a relationship (I'm single, BTW... Again, there was always just that formless aversion to the idea, and when I started questioning it took form.) But there are many aspects of a life as a female (or MtF) that I don't particularly care about.