I've been treated, by a urologist, in the past, for low testosterone with testosterone therapy, which didn't work properly, as it would only produce random erections and most of the time these were soft. An endocrinologist, from the same clinic, who a psychotherapist referred me to, has now put me on estradiol therapy and I've been getting good erections from it, whenever I want them. The estradiol that I'm using is soy based and the yam-based estradiol that I also tried has only produced soft erections.

The endocrinologist said that I was getting these erections because the estrogen receptors in my brain were being activated by the estradiol. The urologist had no explanation as to why the testosterone didn't work the way that it should and he had wanted to put me on a aromatase inhibitor, which the endocrinologist said would be counter productive. The clinic won't give me any more testosterone, as the endocrinologist said that I shouldn't be taking it.

The endocrinologist said that it's possible that I'm transgender and he asked me how I would feel if I was. He also said that it was possible that I have a female brain, as he believes that brain sex is pre-programmed, before birth. I'm being treated at the clinic for erectile dysfunction, but I've been wondering, if my ability to be aroused from estradiol and not testosterone means that I'm transgender. Both the urologist and the endocrinologist believe that there is also a psychological element involved here, besides a chemical one.

I've been on the estradiol now for about 16 weeks and I've noticed some feminization, including breast growth, which doesn't bother me at all. My testicles are almost non-functioning and partially atrophied, and I tested at 19 ng for testosterone and 30 pg for estradiol. I think I may be partially intersexed, since I only have a 2-inch penis and this may explain why I'm getting erections from the estradiol and why I feel euphoric when using it. My next appointment with the endocrinologist will be in about 3 months, by which time I may have transitioned. I believe my penis may now be functioning like a clitoris with the estradiol.

So, my question is, does my ability to be aroused from estradiol mean that I'm transgender, as I believe may be the case?

While there may be a physiological component, it doesn't seem to me that it would be sufficient evidence to consider yourself transgendered...

That seems a stretch. My experience (having taken no irreversible steps regarding my brain-mobile) is that about 95% of being transgendered occurs between the ears, so... if you don't think that you're driving around in the wrong body, chances are you aren't.

But... I'm no endocrinologist.

My best - Sara

Estrogen is a family of chemicals rather than just one.  Soy based estrogen contains an estrogen not  found in humans called Equilin.  It has a slightly different chemical strucutre than estrone and can be converted to estrone and then to estradiol in humans.  With out doing some structure optomization but just looking at the structure, I believe that the 3D structure is somewhere between testosterone and estrogen. I also think you are responding to this chemical rather than to estradiol.  That would imply a mutation in a gene that makes the protiens testosterone binds with.  This may or may not be an intersexed condition, depending on other parameters you didn't mention.  You should probably talk with the endo about that.

As far as what sex you are – you need to figure that out.  From your post, you were raised a male but seem to be transisitioning to female.  Do you fit the definition of "transgender"?  I don't know and in the end, it doesn't matter, you are what you are so find that gender and live there.  If you are transitioning from mostly male to mostly female, you will face many of the same problems a "standard" trans female faces so here is a good place for help.   

Hi Terrafirma 

Welcome to Susan's     Glad to have you here

Please be sure to review

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks ( including when you can upload an avatar)
  
• Age and the Forum
  
• Reputation rules
  
• Photo, avatars, and signature images policy
  

Hugs

V M

Thanks to everyone for your warm welcomes and helpful comments. I think I may be intersexed and this has made me confront my feelings about being transgender. I like the changes that have been occuring to me on the estradiol and I see no reason to stop my transition. Maybe, in a few months, I can show you the results of it. I already feel like I have a home here. 

Have You done the genetic testing? Namely, has the endo referred You to the kariotype test? As far as I know, that is the only way to verify whether You are intersexed (that + hormone blood test).

No, I haven't. The endocrinologist was so convinced that I may be transgender that he gave me a 2-month prescription for estradiol on my first visit to see him. I had been referred to him by a psychotherapist who I had seen 3 times before that. I saw him again last week and he renewed my prescription for 3 months. The question of my possible androgen insensitivity did come up, but he told me that there is no test to prove if you are transgender or not, so I don't think he considered being intersexed as important to my treatment. I did tell him that the testosterone had been ineffective and he told me that I shouldn't be taking it anymore. In fact, he put this in his report of my visit, so as far as this clinic is concerned, I'm transgender and I can't get testosterone there, anymore.

Those with intersex conditions fall within the "transgender umbrella."

Quote from: iiii on July 23, 2013, 07:15:32 PM
That might make you intersex or something... Transsexualism is about gender identity, something you "choose" by yourself, it's not about bodily functions.
You may be trans if you want to, that's something you'll have to decide for yourself, if you want to transition into female or something else (like androgyny), however your medical situation doesn't make you trans.

I don't think people "choose" transsexualism and neither does science. Gender construction/expression or whatever, can become pretty heavy and is definitely open to debate but rooted at the core is a biological event. I wish we had some consensus over our definitions because it would certainly make discussions easier, but suffice it say, brainsex appears to be real and beyond culture's influence. In fact, I wonder why it is that transsexualism isn't considered another intersex condition. Having said as much, there's no hard lines for you to follow Terrafirma. No right or wrong. Its your life and your call and you're the only who can answer these questions.  Just because a doctor said you're trans doesn't make it true. So my one recommendation would be to recall that this is not an exact science, its still relatively new and whatever makes you happy is all that matters.

Quote from: Terrafirma on July 24, 2013, 12:25:30 PMThe question of my possible androgen insensitivity did come up, but he told me that there is no test to prove if you are transgender or not

True.

Quote from: Terrafirma on July 24, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
so I don't think he considered being intersexed as important to my treatment.

Tell him that it is! My endo stressed that it is extremely important to check the karyotype when starting the HRT, because being intersex might affect the choice, type and dosages of medications.

Quote from: -Emily- on July 24, 2013, 01:17:54 PM
True.

Tell him that it is! My endo stressed that it is extremely important to check the karyotype when starting the HRT, because being intersex might affect the choice, type and dosages of medications.

I just spoke with my endocrinologist and he said this test wouldn't be useful to me. He said that he believes that I'm responding to the estradiol and not the testosterone because I'm transgender. He said that estradiol is the correct hormone for my brain and I get that sense too, just from using it.

Quote from: Terrafirma on July 23, 2013, 02:37:39 PM
I've been treated, by a urologist, in the past, for low testosterone with testosterone therapy, which didn't work properly, as it would only produce random erections and most of the time these were soft. An endocrinologist, from the same clinic, who a psychotherapist referred me to, has now put me on estradiol therapy and I've been getting good erections from it, whenever I want them. The estradiol that I'm using is soy based and the yam-based estradiol that I also tried has only produced soft erections.

The endocrinologist said that I was getting these erections because the estrogen receptors in my brain were being activated by the estradiol. The urologist had no explanation as to why the testosterone didn't work the way that it should and he had wanted to put me on a aromatase inhibitor, which the endocrinologist said would be counter productive. The clinic won't give me any more testosterone, as the endocrinologist said that I shouldn't be taking it.

The endocrinologist said that it's possible that I'm transgender and he asked me how I would feel if I was. He also said that it was possible that I have a female brain, as he believes that brain sex is pre-programmed, before birth. I'm being treated at the clinic for erectile dysfunction, but I've been wondering, if my ability to be aroused from estradiol and not testosterone means that I'm transgender. Both the urologist and the endocrinologist believe that there is also a psychological element involved here, besides a chemical one.

I've been on the estradiol now for about 16 weeks and I've noticed some feminization, including breast growth, which doesn't bother me at all. My testicles are almost non-functioning and partially atrophied, and I tested at 19 ng for testosterone and 30 pg for estradiol. I think I may be partially intersexed, since I only have a 2-inch penis and this may explain why I'm getting erections from the estradiol and why I feel euphoric when using it. My next appointment with the endocrinologist will be in about 3 months, by which time I may have transitioned. I believe my penis may now be functioning like a clitoris with the estradiol.

So, my question is, does my ability to be aroused from estradiol mean that I'm transgender, as I believe may be the case?

Yam does not have estrone or equilin or estrogen; it does have a few compounds that have shown to slightly activate estrogen receptors alpha and beta

QuoteYam (Dioscorea spp.) is a common food in tropical areas and has been shown to improve the status of sex hormone in postmenopausal women. In this study, the estrogenic activity of yam was examined and active compounds were isolated and identified based on ligand-dependent transcriptional activation through estrogen receptors. Ethyl acetate extracts of various species/varieties of yam were found to activate estrogen receptors α and β to various extents. The extract of Dioscorea alata cv. Tainung No. 2 tuber was fractionated by repeated silica gel column chromatography. The active compounds were isolated and purified by preparative HPLC. Based on NMR and mass spectrometry, two new compounds, hydro-Q9 chromene (1) and γ-tocopherol-9 (2), together with three known compounds, RRR-α-tocopherol (3), coenzyme Q9 (4), and 1-feruloylglycerol (5), were identified and shown to activate human ERα and β. These results provide basic evidence for the beneficial effect of yam for menopausal women. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf0711690

Likewise the Soy estrogenic compunds are much less potent than the synthetic or natural estradiol (the real McCoy)

QuoteGlycitein (4',7-dihydroxy-6-methoxyisoflavone) accounts for 5−10% of the total isoflavones in soy food products. The biological activity of this compound has not been reported to date, although numerous studies have been performed with the other soy isoflavones, daidzein and genistein. Glycitein was isolated from soy germ to 99% purity. Weaning female B6D2F1 mice were dosed with glycitein (3 mg/day), genistein (3 mg/day), and diethylstilbestrol (DES) (0.03 μg/day) in 5% Tween 80 by gavage for 4 days. A control group received an equal volume of 5% Tween 80 solution daily. The uterine weight increased 150% with glycitein (p < 0.001), 50% with genistein (p < 0.001), and 60% with DES (p < 0.001) compared with the control group. DES, 17β-estradiol, and three isoflavones (daidzein, genistein, and glycitein) were examined for their competitive binding abilities with 17β-(3H)estradiol to the estrogen receptor proteins of the B6D2F1 mouse uterine cytosol. The concentrations of each compound required to displace 50% of the (3H)estradiol at 5 nM in the competitive binding assay were 1.15 nM DES, 1.09 nM 17β-estradiol, 0.22 μM genistein, 4.00 μM daidzein, and 3.94 μM glycitein. These data indicated that glycitein has weak estrogenic activity, comparable to that of the other soy isoflavones but much lower than that of DES and 17β-estradiol. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf981054j

What was the source of your soy or yam "estrogen"...an herbal preparation?

Quote from: peky on July 24, 2013, 05:09:45 PM
Yam does not have estrone or equilin or estrogen; it does have a few compounds that have shown to slightly activate estrogen receptors alpha and beta

Likewise the Soy estrogenic compunds are much less potent than the synthetic or natural estradiol (the real McCoy)

What was the source of your soy or yam "estrogen"...an herbal preparation?

(Please note the use of "based" not "contains" in my original post.) The estrogen replacement drug "Estra Tab" contains esterified estrogens, consisting of esterone and equilin and is synthesized using the phytoestrogens extracted from soy and yams as the source of the estrogen backbone.  No other yam based estrogen replacement therapy contains equilin.  However, most of the soy based estrogen replacements contain equilin at low levels to trace levels but "Menest" contains quite a bit of it.

For a quick reference on the source used in synthesis and the resulting AI(s) for all hormones commonly used, see http://www.rxstat.com/hormone_quick_reference_guide.html

So your endocrinologist has diagnosed you as transgender, with no input from you and concordance with no therapist, based on how you responded with an erection to plant-based estrogen derivatives (or whatever) and is now designating your treatment accordingly?  Really?

Quote from: Jen on July 24, 2013, 06:41:42 PM
So your endocrinologist has diagnosed you as transgender, with no input from you and concordance with no therapist, based on how you responded with an erection to plant-based estrogen derivatives (or whatever) and is now designating your treatment accordingly?  Really?

I don't understand what you mean by no input. I've had two consultations with him.

Quote from: peky on July 24, 2013, 05:09:45 PM
Yam does not have estrone or equilin or estrogen; it does have a few compounds that have shown to slightly activate estrogen receptors alpha and beta

Likewise the Soy estrogenic compunds are much less potent than the synthetic or natural estradiol (the real McCoy)

What was the source of your soy or yam "estrogen"...an herbal preparation?

The yam-based estradiol that I've used is Alora and Vivelle-Dot and the soy-based estradiol that I've used is Climara and Mylan, which is a generic equivalent of Climara.

Meaning it was his idea that you are transgender, not yours.

Quote from: Jen on July 24, 2013, 07:22:17 PM
Meaning it was his idea that you are transgender, not yours.

That was his diagnosis. I went to him wondering if I was, on the recommendation of a psychotherapist that I was seeing. I had gone to see the psychotherapist, because I was already transitioning off of the testosterone pellets that I had been given, by another urologist, for low testosterone. The aromatization of the testosterone in these pellets had raised my estradiol level to 60 pg. Like the testosterone gel, the pellets didn't work properly, either, but I liked the physical and mental changes that they brought.

I don't know much about this stuff, but I am pretty sure a doctor can't just tell you that you are transgendered, I think that is a choice you make yourself? I also don't see how a doctor would tell you that intersex isn't something worth getting checked out(sorry if I misread your post).

I would get a second opinion if you can, because this seems kind of weird.

Quote from: matthewzguitarz on July 24, 2013, 07:28:57 PM
I don't know much about this stuff, but I am pretty sure a doctor can't just tell you that you are transgendered, I think that is a choice you make yourself? I also don't see how a doctor would tell you that intersex isn't something worth getting checked out(sorry if I misread your post).

I would get a second opinion if you can, because this seems kind of weird.

I thought being transgender wasn't a choice. To me, it's a birth defect, of incomplete pre-natal development, that no one chooses, but which can be corrected with hormone therapy.

Terrafirma,

See the wiki on this site "Intersexuality" under the Medical section  and the one on "Transgender" in the general section.