I need some help/advice/I kind of just want to spill my guts out.  I'm sorry that this is probably a TL;DR...I even tried trimming it down.

I am a 25yo female, and my fiancé is a MTF TG person who crossdresses part-time.  My SO is "out" as a CD.  (Side note: my SO's brother is also MTF TG).  I have been with my SO for almost 5 years and things are excellent.  I've known that my SO is TG pretty much from day 1.  Support/acceptance is not really why I am here. 

I'm not even sure where to start this in a cohesive sort of way...

I am bisexual.  I have always been an "attractive" female, but there's a bit of weird discomfort in this.  I've always been sort of an oddball because I look a certain way, but I hang out with mainly gamer/computer guys.   Why?  Well, because I like to game.  We have a commonality.  These guys are also a little more reserved, so it's nice to have friends that don't hit on you in a super machismo sort of way.

My SO falls into this group of guys.  He grew up in a household where his mother was the only female and he virtually has no female friends.  CDing is very sexualized for him...basically, it seems to be only a sexual thing...but, he feels at times that he may be happier living as a woman.  Gender is very black and white for him.

I, on the other hand, am the complete opposite.  I find gender to be largely just a very distressing issue.  I'm a female and I dress like a female (a fairly modest one)...my presentation has never really bothered me...but, I get really upset when I realize that people have a judgment about me based on my gender.  I would be the person that leaves the Male/Female sex question box blank.  In fact, I am extreme enough that I distance myself from people that appear to have stereotypical view of gender...I had to get a little lenient because I'd be virtually alone in this world.

I have always been fascinated by my SO's CDing, because he takes on this whole new person.  In male mode, he won't even run a comb through his hair...but, in female mode, it's a 4 hour makeover.  His male mode likes metal, his female mode like "girl pop" (Kesha, Lady Gaga, etc.)  His female persona is also very demure, passive...and, sort of does the whole porn star thing.  I find this pretty sexist in a lot of ways, but I also see it as a challenge.  I spend an absurd amount of time challenging my SO to integrate his two halves, because it just really isn't healthy (IMO) to have what is essentially a split personality.  I really challenge him to not feel the need to enjoy female things only when dressed as a female...there's nothing wrong with liking those things all the time.  (Unless, you are just acting a certain way because you think it's what girls are supposed to do).  We've made a lot of progress, and my SO feels that I am on to something...that whatever I am doing is helping him.

But, I'm not free of sexist stereotypes. 

I have a very dominant personality, and this personality also translates into the bedroom.  It is strong enough that I really cannot climax without feeling as though I am the dominant one...this includes imagining that I have a penis.  (In my mind, I wonder if dominant=something to do with a penis...which is pretty sexist when you think about it). 

This sounds a lot like a fetish-type thing to me, but it gets a bit more complicated.  I am mostly neutral when it comes to my natal genitalia...I even like it to be a neutral area in the bedroom.  But, to be honest, even if I have a prosthetic enhancement in the bedroom to fulfill my dominant fantasies, I don't really like for it to be too much in the limelight.  I like for it to be about as neutral as my natal genitalia...but, I do like the feeling of it. 

As I have said, my SO is passive...and, likes to feel as though he is on the receiving end of things. (Though fantasy often does not equal reality for my SO, and so it takes a lot of work to get any play with my personal prosthetic enhancements). 

It sounds as though this would be the perfect situation though, right?  Well, about 3 years ago, he made a huge deal about having sex with another MTF TG person.  Basically, he doesn't find men attractive, but he wanted to be "really taken."  As in...me taking him wasn't real.  I found this very strange since he doesn't even seem to really like being "taken."  But, specifically, he wanted to perform certain "submissive" acts that allow him to be taken in a different area...and, for it to have a realistic ending.  (Trying to not be graphic). 

We nearly ended things.  It was the most perfect relationship EXCEPT for the "realism" of this "taking" situation. 

Well, after about a year of a very rocky relationship, things did a 180.  My SO never actually ended up having sex with anyone else.  He probably would have, but his dad was diagnosed with cancer shortly after my SO decided to play the field a bit.  (I made it abundantly clear that if he was going to play the field, I was hitting the road).  But, after his dad was diagnosed with cancer...stuff changed.  When his dad passed away shortly after being diagnosed, things changed again.  My SO said he realized what was actually important in life.

Our relationship has since then been amazing.

...Except that I can't get over my "not being realistic enough."  I mean, it was a very serious blow to my ego.  And, though our sex life is amazing, I really have a huge hang-up in this arena.  I felt like my SO was judging my gender in the worst way...I am physically and intellectually what he wanted, but my genitals are inverted...and, my alternative method just doesn't cut it.

He now says that I am the most important thing to him, that I am everything he could want and more...but, it really set something off in me that I can't get over 2 years later.

I felt he was a hypocrite.  I am bisexual, but I tend to lean more towards females.  I have always said that my SO is beautiful no matter what...he's very into boobs, so we have breast forms...and, he admits that he really would just like to transition to have real boobs...but, I have largely discouraged surgical interventions.  (Mainly, I just feel as though he would be doing things for the wrong reasons).  I also feel that when my SO CDs, she looks amazing...even if there are a few prosthetic devices to help things out.  But, seriously...when you KNOW how it feels to be afraid of not being taken seriously...how in the world can you put something like that on someone else? 

It's a large enough hang up that I just get really frustrated when I strap things on.  At first, it was fine...but, now, I feel like an idiot sometimes.  And, though I already was uncomfortable with the notion of gender, I am now REALLY uncomfortable by it.  Heaven forbid one of my friends makes a joke about gender.  It's like I am a kid sometimes...a guy opens a door for me, and I walk right next to him to open the other door.  Heaven forbid you "ma'am" or "miss" me.  And, I totally realize that people are just being nice, but I just get extremely bothered by it.

I spend a lot of time on a TG support website, but I haven't really told anyone how I feel.  Those people have known me for years, and I just can't bring myself to talk about this issue.  It's that distressing.  My SO (who talks about transitioning every 3-4 months), spends absolutely no time on TG support sites...he'll CD and then get undressed after sex...he spends no time investing in anything female beyond that. 

I've joked that it seems like I am actually TG, but in a way that I just don't freaking like gender.  At all.  I think it's a huge mistake...I'd be perfectly happy if it just went away.  My SO says that he doesn't think I am TG because I don't feel uncomfortable with my natal gender...but, I think discomfort for him is largely wrapped up on how one looks/how people treat you.  For me, the discomfort is that I just want people to treat me like a person.  I dress how I do to look attractive, but mostly for myself and my SO...being flirted with by other people is not a pleasant experience.  I know I look just fine as a female...and, really, I have no idea what to do with male clothing.  But, the thing is, I wouldn't be comfortable as a dude either.  I don't want to intentionally look like a dude...I don't want to learn how to be a dude.  I just want to look how I think is best, and act like me.  In the end, if you are going to stereotype me, I am more or less a good blend of both genders.

It often feels as though my SO is uncomfortable with his appearance, and I am uncomfortable gender (as a whole).  But, I have no idea of what to think about wanting the male anatomy in bed...but, not wanting it to be a "huge deal."  It's like I just want the male anatomy because it allows me to have sex in the manner in which I like to have sex.

Does this even make any sense at all?  Does anyone have any idea of what to make of it? 

Makes sense to me!

Your SO's gender, I'm afraid, is mostly their business. I'm glad you haven't "intervened" much, but if they decide that they do want surgery for a more androgynous body, then that's their choice to make, I'm afraid. It does sound like they were going through a period of much experimentation too, which is healthy, IMO. They could be bigender, which generally means that a person is both man and woman, and oftentimes this means they have different personas to go with each gender. Sometimes requesting different pronouns to be used, and even different names for each one. But only your SO can tell you if this is how they truly feel. And remember, no gender presentations is incorrect. If your SO felt they really were a woman when they were presenting as female, then there is no wrong way to go about being a woman.

As for the sex stuff, human sexuality is something of a black box that can't much be rationalized with or politicized too much. So long as everyone involved in consenting, that's all you can really hope for with things that the wider society (or feminism) might tell you is sick and wrong. Your SO might have a fetish that just may not be possible to explore while keeping your relationship intact. You might have one as well, what with wanting to have "the real thing" during sex. There's nothing inherently right or wrong there, and if you feel disturbed by the things you're fantasizing about, it might be best to try and figure out how to make peace with them because as far as I can tell, there is no cure for sexual proclivities. You might try and find a sex therapist to help you with this if it's something that's upsetting you that much, too.

Good luck~

I normally write a whole lot.  I'm not going to, because you've just opened up a whole lot.  My intuition's telling me that you'll draw the pieces together in the great outpouring, for just expressing that.  You've expressed dominance in at least five ways I can count in your prior message.  That says to me that this is really big for you to open up and actually allow yourself to--trust--others and get love.

I have one piece of feedback:

try not to partition big parts of yourself into different environments.  There's a reason that you haven't used a primary resources--transgender associates--to disclose to.  Do you want me to spell out what I see , or have you figured that one out.  Maybe if I put it as a question:

what's the need to be dominant really about?  And how can you keep the awesome trait and yet add 'a spice' into the personality mix?

Personal growth is not about shedding traits.  It's about adding spices.  Would you like me to look at any particular area more closely and share from my own experiences?

Kind Regards
stav

I read your entire post, and I enjoyed reading it. But my advice is simply this: let it happen.

I like to be submissive in the bedroom but I can fill the role as dominant (kindof, i'm no good at it). If it works, great! If it doesn't, and the other person i'm with isn't taking the lead, I don't have much fun, because I feel the need to maintain dominant/ submissive balance, like yin and yang.

It seems like you're worrying about something you can't control. If your SO is happy the way things are, let him/her be happy (you say trans mtf but say he, i'll just use both genders because idk). If you're happy the way things are, be happy.

His/her feelings of wanting to bottom to a mtf are in the past, if I read correctly. Ever since then everything is great. What good can come of thinking about the past, the feelings of being unsatisfactory? And even then, what more can you do that you haven't already done to change those feelings he/she has? From what i've read, nothing. You're not doing anything wrong, you sound like an amazing human being.

I'd let him/ her say in his/her world, if he/she wants to express his/her gender more, let it happen, if not, that's his/her choice. You sound like you feel like you know what's best for him/her, to make him/her happiest, but it goes back to kids, we hate being told what would make us happier. We want to do it our own way at our own speed.

(i'm jelly if your relationship btw, you sound extremely supportive and awesome, keep up the good work!)

It seems that you may enjoy being dominant in the bedroom because you hope it pleases him.   Do you think there is an element of truth to that?  From what I've read, it seems like your gender isn't a big deal to you.  You are who you are and desire to be seen that way.  Male or female is irrelevant.  You just don't want any preconceived notions about who or what you are because of your appearance.   That's sort of what I'm getting from you, but I could be wrong.  Only you can define yourself, so my opinion doesn't matter.  However, I wouldn't say that makes or doesn't make you trans.  There are plenty of people both cisgender or transgender that feel that way.  I know many women and men who hate being categorized or stereotyped because of their gender.   So its normal for everyone to feel that way to some degree.  Whether there is more to the story than that, I can't tell.

Have you and your spouse ever gone to a gender therapist?  If not it sounds like you both may benefit from talking with one.  I wish you both lots of luck.

I would like to point out that gender identity is not the same as gender roles. I also think that gender roles should be done away with completely and that the only reason they exist at all is because people keep insisting they do aka they don't actually exist. However, I am just referring to the arbitrary and illogical roles. Gender itself is something different.
Sorry I have little to no advice about your S.O. You've probably discussed this with her right? I don't know. The way you describe the situation makes me feel uncomfortable, but I'm biased. I've been in a relationship where my partner said very hurtful things to me and then assumed that I should be fine with it. I wasn't. Turns out, he was abusive and I had been covering for him when I really should have been trusting my gut feelings. However the case is for you, I suggest trusting your gut.
Your body is yours and your identity is yours. How you feel about both is unique to you same as everyone else. In other words, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Ugh. Words. I am bad at them. Sorry I'm not much help.

By the way, MaddestScientist, is that a challenge?  Granted, you can probably beat me in the scientist part.

Quote from: Edge on July 25, 2013, 10:33:20 PM
I would like to point out that gender identity is not the same as gender roles. I also think that gender roles should be done away with completely and that the only reason they exist at all is because people keep insisting they do aka they don't actually exist. However, I am just referring to the arbitrary and illogical roles. Gender itself is something different.
Sorry I have little to no advice about your S.O. You've probably discussed this with her right? I don't know. The way you describe the situation makes me feel uncomfortable, but I'm biased. I've been in a relationship where my partner said very hurtful things to me and then assumed that I should be fine with it. I wasn't. Turns out, he was abusive and I had been covering for him when I really should have been trusting my gut feelings. However the case is for you, I suggest trusting your gut.
Your body is yours and your identity is yours. How you feel about both is unique to you same as everyone else. In other words, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Ugh. Words. I am bad at them. Sorry I'm not much help.

By the way, MaddestScientist, is that a challenge?  Granted, you can probably beat me in the scientist part.

I agree that great harm has been done by the division of labour by gender-role in societies, across the world.  I love the terminology of the current language of the area, "non-gendered" (then at other extreme "woman-ness/man-ness") "agendered" (then at other extreme 'feminine' 'masculine'), though I have no idea, really, why or what theorists really mean when they use that language.

But we're taught during our studies that 'gender typing' begins really early in children, as early as two years of age in fact.  There is a study I remember that cut the hair of a two year old, put on a football uniform and put a football in the child's hands and the judgers (children of two) all thought the 'girl' was a 'boy'.  I suspect that there is some kind of ingrained, hardwiring process that leaves young children amenable to absorbing whatever gender stereotypes are ingrained in the host culture.

there is a scholar, and her name is Patricia Devine, who argues that the most she believes humans can achieve is a 'self-correction' for 'a' socialisation, and the volunteering of the self to feel shame, in order to correct for an automatic, unconscious pre-attentive processing bias, implicit in the human condition as we appraise our environments.

Hard science.  But I like Professor Devine, who is a fine humanitarian also.