Talking with transgender troops
Military Intelligence
Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY 2:16 p.m. EDT July 23, 2013

http://www.usatoday.com/story/nation/2013/07/23/seal-team-6-transgender-troops/2578829/?fb_comment_id=fbc_627544220598673_6826762_627793503907078

Convincing transgender troops that they could speak openly about their experience -- and confirming their identities -- was more difficult than finding them.

A very good source, a member of the military who is active on gay and lesbian issues, let it be known that USA TODAY was interested in speaking with transgender troops about their service and the secret they had to keep. Acknowledging that they're changing sexes results in automatic dismissal from the service for health reasons.

Which lent some irony to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel's recent address to the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Pride event at the Pentagon. Gay and lesbian troops, who had been persecuted until the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," can serve with pride. Even transgender civilian military officials, including Amanda Simpson, a top-ranking political appointee in the Army, can do their jobs without fear of reprisal.

Not so those who shoulder weapons.

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Transgender troops serve in silence
Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY 9:41 p.m. EDT July 23, 2013
Coming out as transgender would get them kicked out of the U.S. military.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/23/transsexuals-military-struggle-acceptance/2513153/

WASHINGTON — As the military begins to embrace gays and lesbians, one group feels left out: transgender troops.

These men and women weren't even a blip on the nation's radar until former Navy SEAL Team 6 member Chris Beck revealed in a memoir released last month that he had become Kristin Beck, a woman.

It's unknown how many transgender troops are serving in the U.S. military, largely because they would get kicked out for coming out. About 700,000 Americans in a population of more than 300 million are transsexuals, according to a 2011 study by the Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law.

I find it sad that one group can be open and have pride in being who they are while another has to hide in the shadows.

"Even transgender civilian military officials, including Amanda Simpson, a top-ranking political appointee in the Army, can do their jobs without fear of reprisal." This bothers me to no end. A political apointee? Looks like the good old double standard again as always. Maybe Amanda needs to sign up, strap on a weapon, go through the training and see how free she can be to be herself without reprisal. Just because someone is a civilian military offical doesn't mean they are military. They are not in the military but a civilian, free to have all the civilian privaledges, that just happens to work with the military. So no, in my opinion Ms. Simpson is not military just because she was appointed to a civilian position in the Army.

I do have a solution to the problem of being trans in the military. How about automatically finding civilian military positions for our brothers and sisters when they do come out and get kicked out. In the beginning I am sure they thought they could hide it, supress it or just wait the time out. In many case it can be done, in many others it can't. These people were willing to make the big sacrifice just by signing up. It isn't their fault that the big sacrifice ended up supressing who they are. I support every one across the military, even more so the transgendered because they have to supress it 24/7/365 without hardly a chance to be themselves for several years. It's hard to dress living in barracks with a roommate not to mention unexpected inspections where articles of clothing and makeup can be found. We have and always had to sacrifice a little more than cisgendered people have to sacrifice in the way of willing to die for our country/countries and sacrificing and dying a little bit everyday hiding/supressing who we are.

An interesting article.  Did I read that right?  Troops who transition get instant dismissal, for "health reasons" but, um, transgendered troops can 'speak out' without fear of reprisal.  *scratches head* *throws darts at antiquated Defence Policy documents*

I think it's great that there's news about this, but hope the outcome downstream is better legislation, policy and protection for people seeking transition who are already troops, who are wanting to become troops, and also compensation processes for ex troops who were badly done over by transphobia and abusive HR practices, and by peer abuse......

As a former transgender airman I can relate to this.  When will people see the value of transgender men and women?

Quote from: dr girlfriend on July 24, 2013, 09:28:00 AM
As a former transgender airman I can relate to this.  When will people see the value of transgender men and women?

seriously awesome.  Am sure u'd still be exceptional for the job.  Hope you weren't done over by 'the machine' and that you left, for other reasons, not because u were discriminated against....

Quote from: stavraki on July 24, 2013, 09:33:34 AM
seriously awesome.  Am sure u'd still be exceptional for the job.  Hope you weren't done over by 'the machine' and that you left, for other reasons, not because u were discriminated against....

oh no. There was no discrimination because I was too far in the closet.  I simply got ate alive by depression.  I hurts that there are so many today in the same position that I was in. 

Quote from: dr girlfriend on July 24, 2013, 09:41:31 AM
oh no. There was no discrimination because I was too far in the closet.  I simply got ate alive by depression.  I hurts that there are so many today in the same position that I was in.

I can appreciate where ur coming from.  How the *bleep* are the troops gunna come out with the ka-gillion spoken and invisible 'cultural' pressures upon the person to conform to this megalithic self-replicating juggernaut of a troop culture pressing upon the psyche.  Who wouldn't become depressed under that kind of onslaught when u had to hide so much about yourself and disconnect from ur team.  U can't hide such big parts of the self from the world without serious consequences to mental health.  And in a situation where connectedness counts majorly for keeping well in hostile war environments.

I'm a psych and looking at this as one, and knowing that there are psychologists in the armed services makes me wonder what pressure they must be under to gag themselves.  Why aren't they on Oprah and other talkback shows?  The transphobia, as that presses upon identity issues are clear corollaries of abuse.  No ethical psychologist could justify a position that invalidated the claims of discrimination made by transgendered people.  I am aware that to deny the issues, even in the attempt, is to collude with ethnocentrism, (hegemonic normative gender concepts that fuse genital configurations to body shape).  That's just abuse, said plainly and clearly transphobia.

I also wanted to toss another issue into the ring.  That gender identity needs to be caste as 'pathology' in the GID pathology spectrum and that there is a requirement for gender dysphoria (to medicalise the 'gatekeepers' as psychiatrists) also makes me wonder.  That's to put the blue-suits in charge of transitioning.  I appreciate that there are complex psychological matters bearing upon transitioning in a fraught, politicised social machinery.

But

I wonder about those transgendered folk--clearly transgendered--who quell or resolve gender identity suffering by other means, and who end up settling for the body at odds with their mind.  Said another way - should you, categorically, need to be unwell to engage transitioning?  And where are the policy and legislature in all this debate hammering out imperatives to prevent suicides.

I have seen *horrifying* statistics about self-harm rates since being at Susan's Place.

Man, you hit the nail on the head.  Being in the military was like living in a socialist country.  Not that I didn't enjoy many things about it or regret joining.  It just hard following such rigid rules especially when those rules require you to hide so much.  Heck, the Uniform Code of Military Justice requires you to only use the missionary position along with many other crazy rules.  As far as psychologists go, everyone knew better than to tell them things like this which really limited their effectiveness. 

Thanks stavraki.

Quote from: dr girlfriend on July 25, 2013, 05:32:45 AMHeck, the Uniform Code of Military Justice requires you to only use the missionary position along with many other crazy rules. 

While the prohibition against transgender people serving in the military is outdated and discriminatory the notion that the UCMJ has requirements for how one is to have sex is absurd.  Please talk sense, won't you?

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

What I couldn't get over in the Army is that at one post you are stationed at has certain rules about your appearance. You go to another and it is totally different all depending on the post commander. One post I was stationed at, males had to have sideburns, no high and tights haircuts which pretty much is a military staple. Another post I was stationed at, back in the States, a female got in trouble for too short of a hairstyle, males couldn't have sideburns and the little earplugbox had to be in a pocket instead of wrapped around a button on the BDU top. Not to mention the company commanders and platoon leaders enforcing their little bit of power.

I agree with dr. girlfriend about feeling like your living in a socialist country while you serve. I was a little wild anyway and really had to watch and keep myself in check. My self expression was extremely stifled not to mention how far the trans in me was hidden. I know it's all about discipline but sometimes it goes too far. For me being out of country in a small post that was a support group was far easier and more relaxed than being in country. Everyone knew everyone else and pretty much when the workday ended the rank came off. Coming to a "real" military post in the states with no ongoing mission was like a kick in the face.

Quote from: Michelle-G on July 25, 2013, 08:14:22 AM
While the prohibition against transgender people serving in the military is outdated and discriminatory the notion that the UCMJ has requirements for how one is to have sex is absurd.  Please talk sense, won't you?

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

I was referring to Article 125 but I may have exaggerated a little.  Sorry!

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm125.htm

Quote from: Jess42 on July 25, 2013, 08:36:37 AM
What I couldn't get over in the Army is that at one post you are stationed at has certain rules about your appearance. You go to another and it is totally different all depending on the post commander. One post I was stationed at, males had to have sideburns, no high and tights haircuts which pretty much is a military staple. Another post I was stationed at, back in the States, a female got in trouble for too short of a hairstyle, males couldn't have sideburns and the little earplugbox had to be in a pocket instead of wrapped around a button on the BDU top. Not to mention the company commanders and platoon leaders enforcing their little bit of power.

I agree with dr. girlfriend about feeling like your living in a socialist country while you serve. I was a little wild anyway and really had to watch and keep myself in check. My self expression was extremely stifled not to mention how far the trans in me was hidden. I know it's all about discipline but sometimes it goes too far. For me being out of country in a small post that was a support group was far easier and more relaxed than being in country. Everyone knew everyone else and pretty much when the workday ended the rank came off. Coming to a "real" military post in the states with no ongoing mission was like a kick in the face.

Awesome description!

Quote from: Amelia Pond on July 26, 2013, 10:35:05 PM
Troops wanted; transgender need not apply
Military Intelligence
Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY 5:26 p.m. EDT July 25, 2013

http://www.usatoday.com/story/nation/2013/07/25/transgender-troops-gays-in-the-military-navy-seal-team-6/2587113/

The Pentagon assures us it is moving with alacrity to develop gender-neutral standards for its most physically challenging jobs, including shouldering a rifle in the infantry.

The services are doing so to meet a 2016 deadline for all jobs, including those on front lines of combat, be open to women.

The Army's top personnel officer, Lt. Gen. Howard Bromberg, put it plainly in a tweet this week: "Army's effort to ensure the best-qualified Soldiers, regardless of gender, are in the right positions, said LTG Bromberg."

The concept is about as American as it gets: a level playing field for all. If you're capable of doing the job, nothing should prevent you from doing it. In rapid succession, barriers to service have fallen for gays and lesbians and will shortly be eliminated for women.

I may be in the minority with the feelings of trans, gay, lesbians and females on the front lines, but I think it would be a very bad idea. Support units, rear attachments and any other job that doesn't require actual combat would be good all around but there is always a chance that a soldier will be taken prisoner. POWs face torture because about the only countries that identify and abide by the Geneva Conventions are the US and its allies. I'm not afraid to die but I don't want to die over a period of months with my captors doing God knows what to humiliate me or torture me more than other POWs because I am trans and their belief in being such. Same with gays, lesbians and females. Waterboarding is a breeze compared to other devices of torture. BTW, I have been waterboarded and know how it feels, but knives, electricity, rape with objects and many other horrendous things can be done and depending upon the enemy would be done.

Quote from: Jess42 on July 29, 2013, 08:46:56 AM
I may be in the minority with the feelings of trans, gay, lesbians and females on the front lines, but I think it would be a very bad idea. Support units, rear attachments and any other job that doesn't require actual combat would be good all around but there is always a chance that a soldier will be taken prisoner. POWs face torture because about the only countries that identify and abide by the Geneva Conventions are the US and its allies. I'm not afraid to die but I don't want to die over a period of months with my captors doing God knows what to humiliate me or torture me more than other POWs because I am trans and their belief in being such. Same with gays, lesbians and females. Waterboarding is a breeze compared to other devices of torture. BTW, I have been waterboarded and know how it feels, but knives, electricity, rape with objects and many other horrendous things can be done and depending upon the enemy would be done.

Really?

Quote from: stavraki on July 29, 2013, 09:02:15 AM
Really?

Yes. When it comes to what the enemy can and can't do to their POWs, most are unlimited because like I said earlier, the US and it's allies are usually the ones that follow the Geneva Conventions when it comes to the way POWs are treated. Gays and post op F2M and being able to hide who they are in a situation like that is may be alright but females (straight or lesbian) and transgendered M2Fs I think should be stationed in support units and so on. Gang rapes and other horrendous acts are not out of the question not to mention many other things. Trying to get information through psychological means like blasting a song over and over again, sleep deprivation, naked humiliation, water dripping, waterboarding and so on is nothing compared to what can be done. Women in a lot of cultures aren't looked down upon more so than in western cultures. Where they may respect another man, they may in fact resent females to a point that they are deemed unimportant. Especially whatever culture these female POWs come from, trans or biological.

When I was in, I made up my mind that I would never be a POW. Whether or not it would have played out that way, I have no idea and can't say. If in a combat situation, my plan was to take a round out of one of my magazines and but it in my BDU blouse pocket so I would have one round left and wouldn't have to pay attention to how many I was firing. That would have been for me if they weren't good enough shots to get me. I wasn't the only one that had that plan either.

Like I said, this is just my thoughts on the subject because it has been on my mind before. It isn't limited to any specific enemy but anyone that culturally doesn't regard female as equal as male.