I didn't plan to go out today, but the car needed service unexpectedly. I didn't feel like putting makeup on, so I went to the repair place with my beard shadow evident. I had shaved, but my laser hasn't been perfectly effective, and there still are dark areas.

What do we think of this?

I feel its your decision how you want to be seen.  Only you can decide how good or bad you look.

What Sarah said. I hate your first option on the poll, by the way.

You should do what is right for you. How is your question different than asking if a woman should shave her legs, wear heels, or dress a certain way? Women come in all forms and presentations. The right look is your look... whatever that may be.

I think it would certainly effect your ability to pass, depending no how bad it is. Some women have facial hair. If it is bad people will look at you funny prolly. But it is your life and you don't have to do anything you don't want to and you don't owe anybody anything. I guess you are talking about are you giving a negative image of trans women? I don't think any trans woman owes anything to another and should do things to not make others look worse. It's your life.

That being said, when I present female I would never leave the house without makeup. Heck, even presenting male I don't leave the house without makeup. I've been wearing foundation for 10 years since I was 20. I thought I wouldn't be able to pass until I got laser but I pass without it. But I am really self-conscious and hate it. I only grow hair on my chin and lip and not even much there.

I haven't gotten laser yet and have to hold off until I resolve some issues because once I do my ability to pass as male will drop precipitously. Yesterday i thought I was passing as a guy and this guy referred to me with male pronouns and his girlfriend was all like "there is no way she is a guy. I swear to God that is a girl." She was really adamant about it and I felt really awkward. I should prolly use the women's room but I don't because I don't feel comfortable because I haven't had laser.

But the point is it may not be as bad as you think. Gawd I am so long-winded.

Excessive facial hair is arguably the biggest hindrance to "passing." I would never go out with shadow although im well past that point in my transition

Excessive shadow looks terrible.  I've known a few M2F's who make no attempt to hide shadow.  They looked like lazy and slobbish most of the time.  Needless to say, I never wanted to be seen with them in public, as it draws tons of negative attention and made more people scrutinize me, making it harder for me to pass.

There are times I've simply had to leave the house with shadow, but I bind my breasts and wear baggy boy clothes when I do....

why?  Why should I feel I have to do that?

Out of respect for myself and those that wish to pass.  Going out in a dress and obvious 5'oclock shadow helps to reinforce an already prevalent misconception that all M2Fs are nothing more than confused crossdressers

I know it's probably not a popular opinion, but we're a heavily hated minority group and our big rights movement hasn't dawned yet.  Our time has not yet come....keeping a low profile is in our best interests

Quote from: Oriah on July 25, 2013, 12:57:49 PM
Excessive shadow looks terrible.  I've known a few M2F's who make no attempt to hide shadow.  They looked like lazy and slobbish most of the time.  Needless to say, I never wanted to be seen with them in public, as it draws tons of negative attention and made more people scrutinize me, making it harder for me to pass.

I have a friend who doesn't pass as well as I do and I def know how you feel as I get awkward walking with her when I am presenting female but at the same time she is so nice to me I would feel horrid if I ever said anything or didn't want to be seen with her. I suck it up. I care more about her feelings then random people that may "clock" me. They can go **** themselves. She matters. Not them.

Quote from: iiii on July 25, 2013, 01:06:06 PM
I don't really get the point of dressing female while having a visible beard shadow...

I agree if you mean not shaving for days and then wearing a dress. I simply don't present as female most of the time because I have not had laser and I am super self-conscious about it.

Quote from: Oriah on July 25, 2013, 12:57:49 PM
Out of respect for myself and those that wish to pass.

Au contraire, going out "slobbish" reinforces the negative stereotype and actually makes it easier for those who want to pass.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 25, 2013, 01:09:52 PM
I care more about her feelings then random people that may "clock" me. They can go **** themselves. She matters. Not them.

I care more about MY feelings than random people's or potential friends.  I don't like being clocked.  When I am not passing people tend to treat me poorly.  But when I am passing, I'm treated as a lady, even if I tell people point blank that I'm trans.  Appearance is a big deal.  We're a shallow species in a shallow world.  Most of the animal kingdom is.

Quote from: Nicolette on July 25, 2013, 01:12:46 PM
Au contraire, going out "slobbish" reinforces the negative stereotype and actually makes it easier for those who want to pass.

but on the offchance you are clocked.....people will tend to associate you with those ones who walk around in a sundress and three-day stubble

People will give you stares.  If you don't mind, then go for it I guess.   I wouldn't do it myself.

Quote from: Oriah on July 25, 2013, 01:28:40 PM
but on the offchance you are clocked.....people will tend to associate you with those ones who walk around in a sundress and three-day stubble

Personally, the only ones who ever get to know are physicians. And they are wide-eyed and gushing as their preconceived notions come crashing down, thanks to the dichotomy.

Quote from: Oriah on July 25, 2013, 01:24:56 PM
I care more about MY feelings than random people's or potential friends.  I don't like being clocked.  When I am not passing people tend to treat me poorly.  But when I am passing, I'm treated as a lady, even if I tell people point blank that I'm trans.  Appearance is a big deal.  We're a shallow species in a shallow world.  Most of the animal kingdom is.

Oh I totally agree. I know how important passing is to piece of mind and you should not feel bad for not anting to be clocked. I certainly have issues with it and when you pass and receive the benefits of it (like being treated better!) it sucks to have that taken away by a trans woman who does not put the effort it in. Please don't think I was admonishing you or something. I really was not. I feel the same way.

I'd never go about shaming anyone who wants to wear/appear however in public. Doesn't mean its how I'd like to present, but there can be a lot of reasons as to why someone would (hair removal appt, skin sensitivity, idgaf, androgyny, day after a bender, etc.)

Too much reliance on not passing imo. Not everyone will even with "effort" - are they less women than a very presentable 20 year old?

I'm of two minds on this one.

Ideally, it shouldn't matter if you go out with a full damn beard and lipstick. You are who you are and if you're comfortable enough with yourself to rock the look, then rock it girl. We spend too much time focusing on how we look and, in the end, it's really detrimental to our society to do so.

But having said that..

I'd look like a gorilla in drag.

We need to keep something in mind.  We have members here, particularly in the Androgyne/non-binary community, who identify as "bearded ladies."

I am somewhat distressed to think of them reading this topic and being further marginalized.  Or called slobbish, or mannish, or drag queens (which, by the way, is a perfectly valid gender expression).

Furthermore, ciswomen have facial hair problems too.  Some from diseases.  My mother took anti-hirsutism drugs the last year of her life, because of the cancer that had invaded her adrenal glands and caused terrible hormone imbalances.  She would not leave the house for the last six months of her life, she was so distraught.

It is up to each person to do the best job they can to perfect the look they want.  We have no guardians of feminine purity on these boards.

We can continue the bitch-slapping by PM.  Topic locked.

I have at times went to the local store without makeup.  They don't care.