difficult topic to name... how to sum up such a thing...?!

so it's like this.... I am not happy with some trends of explaining what it is to be trans. in fact  I sometimes wonder if trans is even a term that I want to identify with. because trans sort of suggests being one way and switching to another.
if somebody is born with a heart defect do they have to transition to be a person without a heart defect?
this is my own personal view on it so maybe it won't correlate with yours... but the way I see it is that I am not trans and won't need to transition or anything.

I'm not 100% sure on any of this but the proposition is this:- I am female, 100% always was and always will be. when I was in the womb, something happened and made my body produce too much androgens. This caused my female body to grow male parts and those male parts proceeded to 'terraform' my body into the resemblance of a male. This of course caused the doctors and those around me to incorrectly label me a boy. and of course now a man.

How would I identify or label such a thing? gender identity disorder? no, not at all. transgender? hmmm... possibly, but not really. I would prefer to call this a severe hormone imbalance. And I fully intend to tell people this. if anybody decides to address me as a freak or wierdo and accuse me of changing my sex, or messing with my body, I only need to tell them that my sex or gender has not changed, I am merely correcting a long term medical issue.

what do you guys think? does this make sense to your individual position or do you view it very differently?

I tend to think of it slightly differently 'cause of what I know about the science behind it.
Basically,
I was a male embryo. Genetics were male, so I should have been.
But something went wrong in utero, and I was flooded with female hormones - leading in turn to a female mind and sense of existence.
The mind being the ruler of the body, I am thus compelled to make things right - not by changing my Self, but by changing my Shell. This is the only way in our broken world I can truly be complete.

Quote from: jker86 on July 26, 2013, 10:35:30 AM
...but the way I see it is that I am not trans and won't need to transition or anything.

Wait so are you going to transition or not? I'm confused. Sorry.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 26, 2013, 11:29:11 AM
Wait so are you going to transition or not? I'm confused. Sorry.

The point I was trying to make is that I won't need to 'transition' because I am already the correct sex, just with a wildly inappropriate body structure and hormone balance. 

I'm not sure this sort of explanation is something that will fly well with most people. I mean, most of us start out as one sex, usually physically functional, and in our minds and hearts, we know we should have been the other. I just don't think that trying to change what sex(not the act) means to people with this sort of explanation is the right way to go. Me, I don't try to explain myself to people and the way I am pretty much discourages nosiness about it from others. They may ask me other questions, but not why I am what I am. I am what I am because I am and that's it. If they don't like it, fine, its not my issue.

Jker your subjective interpretation is shared by many and is vey understandable.  Still, if you want to "correct" your long term medical issue within the existing framework of modern health care you will be faced with the labels that absolutely will show up on your medical records in the USA.  The health care industry is replete with mostly appropriate standards and the big books of statistics and diagnosis.  We may not like how poorly some of these labels fit or feel but they are part of the challenge for us.  I often have trouble with the emphasis on SEX!!! labels.  Homosexual, bisexual, transexual; sheesh I feel like a slacker not constantly thinking about sex but I think the masses do hear SEX SEX SEX rather than seeing us as complex individuals with medical issues.
I rather like the honesty of kids who have said, "are you a man or a woman."  Well, I started out as a boy and a man and now I am changing to more of a woman because that's how I feel inside--is my simple response.

I dislike labels intensely as well.

And I agree, trans while partly a term that as you say, seems to say the wrong thing if you play with the term enough, also has unfortunate baggage.

And while we all know it is wrong to pick on people, people indeed pick on people.

And the word 'trans' to a lot of people is also connected to transexual with emphasis on the portion sexual and then so many remember that stupid danged silly movie and presto using trans means you get lumped in as pervert freak whacko and all manner of nasty negative terms. It's not fair or nice.

I am just unlucky enough to have a female mind in a male form. Yippee. Not as bad as being born in a ->-bleeped-<-ty country perhaps, but also not as easy to fix.

I tell people I am a woman and I tend to avoid explanatory terms such as transgender until I figure the audience even gives a damn. I'm not wasting time on a person that couldn't care less after all.

But my shrink said it best the other day. If you need assistance, aid, any form of help professionally, they need a term so as to direct you in the right direction. Because otherwise they have no idea what section of the profession to send you to. Because you don't need help dealing with say alcoholism or gambling or anger or stuttering.

To that end, I consider gender disorder acceptable. It identifies me as a person that has a problem that involves dealing with gender related issues. They can then find out how much of a problem you have, what you want to do about it, whether you have thought out all the angles yet. Because if I have learned anything in a year, it is it is easy to not think of a lot of things.

Quote from: jker86 on July 26, 2013, 11:30:51 AM
The point I was trying to make is that I won't need to 'transition' because I am already the correct sex, just with a wildly inappropriate body structure and hormone balance.

That's fine and all but I don't think people will accept it. You said you are going to tell people but how would they know? Do you look like you have a hormonal imbalance? All this is very interesting, and this is a neat "trans" experience but I do wonder if you accept yourself as much as you seem to why the need to convince other people? Sorry for all the questions I really am just curious. I have the polar opposite experience: I don't want to tell anyone ever and I will transition no matter what even the end of the world.

Quote from: Tessa James on July 26, 2013, 11:54:39 AM
  I often have trouble with the emphasis on SEX!!! labels.  Homosexual, bisexual, transexual; sheesh I feel like a slacker not constantly thinking about sex but I think the masses do hear SEX SEX SEX rather than seeing us as complex individuals with medical issues

Well what other way could they put it? i mean our essential problem is biological sex.It seems like a lot of trans women don't like sex but everyone seems to have kids that is not exactly true. Myself I love sex. I need a man like now!

I am with @Jker86  I am female I was born that way - society is the one that is messed up they focus far too much on the little piece of tissue that I consider a birth defect which they require me to spend an inordinate amount of money to repair BUT do not allow me to have a saving account to save up to pay for. I am in a complete catch-22

not only that they hate me for who they say I am. they shove in in some kind of box and call me a freak - when really I am just a normal womon - anyone walking down the street has no idea I am any different from his sister if I did not take off my clothes. 

Quote from: jker86 on July 26, 2013, 10:35:30 AM
what do you guys think? does this make sense to your individual position or do you view it very differently?

A spade is a spade is a spade, even if you call it a shovel...

Quote from: ZoeM on July 26, 2013, 11:17:49 AM
I tend to think of it slightly differently 'cause of what I know about the science behind it.
Basically,
I was a male embryo. Genetics were male, so I should have been.
But something went wrong in utero, and I was flooded with female hormones - leading in turn to a female mind and sense of existence.
The mind being the ruler of the body, I am thus compelled to make things right - not by changing my Self, but by changing my Shell. This is the only way in our broken world I can truly be complete.

This is pretty elegant.  I like it .  I have thoughts on this topic, but I don't time to spell them out.

I had a successful conversation yesterday about being MtF...a guy said he "didn't understand why I was doing this"...so I thought for a moment, and said,

"Imagine if you went to bed one night and woke up the next morning in a girl's body...you'd still be "you", right? But everyone else sees a girl's body. So when you said, "Wait a minute! I'm not a girl, my name is Kevin!" they'd have a hard time believing you, right?" Yes, he agreed...and then I said, "You'd be looking at your chest and saying, "What?! I'm not supposed to have these, I'm a guy!!" And never mind what you would think when you look "down there" and it's gone...

But, in your mind, you're still you...and still a guy. That's how I've felt since I can remember, I've always been uncomfortable with being male-bodied, and my mind couldn't grasp "being a man"...once I knew there was such a thing as transgender...that was me!

He understood all of that, and told me "Good luck with it!" So yeah, that was a good thing.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 26, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
That's fine and all but I don't think people will accept it. You said you are going to tell people but how would they know? Do you look like you have a hormonal imbalance? All this is very interesting, and this is a neat "trans" experience but I do wonder if you accept yourself as much as you seem to why the need to convince other people? Sorry for all the questions I really am just curious. I have the polar opposite experience: I don't want to tell anyone ever and I will transition no matter what even the end of the world.

problem is when you go out and see people. people who have seen you before will know that something has changed. they will want to ask questions at some point.
it's not something that is avoidable unless you plan on moving town.
The thing is, I accept myself as I am, that much is true. and I don't really care to convince anybody. but I do care about the relationships I have with the people around me.
people will have issues, that much is a given. the way I have approached this is to help other people to understand. many men will see it as a betrayal, and other men will be confused and some women will also see it as odd.
people who see a man suddenly become a woman, will struggle with it. but people who realise that somebody they thought of s one way is actually another way, it's a difference in perspective and more likely to gain acceptance among those I care about.

in actuality, the changes I want in my life are for me. they aren't to effect how others see me.  I don't plan to change my hobbies or the clothes i normally wear. not as a habit anyhow.  but there will be differences and I think that by helping people to feel comfortable with what they are presented with, it will help my social circles to remain largely intact.

Quote from: jker86 on July 26, 2013, 10:35:30 AMI'm not 100% sure on any of this but the proposition is this:- I am female, 100% always was and always will be. when I was in the womb, something happened and made my body produce too much androgens. This caused my female body to grow male parts and those male parts proceeded to 'terraform' my body into the resemblance of a male. This of course caused the doctors and those around me to incorrectly label me a boy. and of course now a man.

Hmm... while I definitely agree that I'm not a fan of all the connotations that come along with the term "trans," which implies that I was a "normal" guy and just randomly decided to change myself into being a "normal" woman instead, and also which still adheres obnoxiously to the cultural gender binaries, I think your description of it still kind of rubs me the wrong way.

I mean, the way that you put it, to other people it's going to sound like you were born with XX chromosomes, and yet due to high testosterone exposure, you grew male genitals. Kind of like the opposite of Androgen-Insensitivity Syndrome or something.

I don't know. At its core level, this really is no different than any other congenital medical condition, and I wish that it would be seen more as such rather than as just a conscious decision. But it's admittedly a very hard thing to explain, because most people don't know just how much their bodily and mental development is completely dependent on prenatal exposure to sex hormones. That's really what needs to become more-public knowledge. Especially since speaking about it in that way would do a LOT to include everyone in the description, and not just those who were completely dichotomously trans since they were little kids. (Because not all of us grow up knowing that we should have been female. I, for example, looking back, can ALWAYS see that I behaved in a more feminine manner, and yet, admittedly, I didn't have a female gender identity as a kid. My gender didn't start feeling "wrong" until my body was filled with male sex hormones as a teenager for the first time. So I don't think I really can say that I was always a girl. I do think that my mind developed in a way that made it programmed to run on estrogen and not programmed to run on testosterone, but I really do think that I fall somewhere more in the middle. So if I say it in that way, saying that I really am a completely normal female, and yet had a genetic defect that made me look male, I'd personally feel like I'd be lying. Because I personally see it more like yes, I'm technically male, but due to a lack of exposure to androgens during a certain phase of fetal development, my body and mind never got the "keys" that told them that they were going to eventually develop as male, and therefore they developed in a way that was more female, expecting to have estrogen and go through a female puberty, and yet they went through a male one instead due to my chromosomes, and so this male development never felt "right" to me.)

I don't know. Again, I just feel like the description you came up with is too binary. Saying that it's due to a lack of androgen exposure is probably more accurate, because then it means that not all were exposed to the same amount, and therefore it's a spectrum. And again, I feel like I fall somewhere more in the middle, so I'd appreciate a bit more of an inclusive term. Really, it's just because people aren't widely aware just how much their development is so completely dependent on prenatal exposure to sex hormones. That's really what we need to work on getting out there.

Well what other way could they put it? i mean our essential problem is biological sex.It seems like a lot of trans women don't like sex but everyone seems to have kids that is not exactly true. Myself I love sex. I need a man like now!
[/quote]

Well, in my ideal world people would take the time to get to know you as more than a sexual entity.  Many folks on Susan's have also come up with very creative descriptions of themselves.  Transgender, androgyne, and gender queer are terms I personally prefer.  There are shades of grey and terms like romance, love and intimacy feel better to me even while I am very happy to acknowledge that your libido includes loving sex.  I hope you fill that need soon;-)

Quote from: Nicolette on July 26, 2013, 12:31:44 PM
A spade is a spade is a spade, even if you call it a shovel...

I want to make sure I'm clear on the meaning here before I get offended by it. This is usually used by those who are ignorant or transphobic to justify that your gender assigned at birth is your gender. Period. Were you being sarcastic with this, or was there another meaning that I'm just not grokking.

Quote from: Shodan on July 26, 2013, 12:52:26 PM
I want to make sure I'm clear on the meaning here before I get offended by it. This is usually used by those who are ignorant or transphobic to justify that your gender assigned at birth is your gender. Period. Were you being sarcastic with this, or was there another meaning that I'm just not grokking.

What I am saying is that what is being described here is trangenderism. It is clearly trangenderism, except by name.

Quote from: Nicolette on July 26, 2013, 12:58:10 PM
What I am saying is that what is being described here is trangenderism. It is clearly trangenderism, except by name.

Gotcha. Carry on, then.

Quote from: Shodan on July 26, 2013, 01:41:24 PM
Gotcha. Carry on, then.

   

Quote from: jker86 on July 26, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
problem is when you go out and see people. people who have seen you before will know that something has changed. they will want to ask questions at some point.
it's not something that is avoidable unless you plan on moving town.
The thing is, I accept myself as I am, that much is true. and I don't really care to convince anybody. but I do care about the relationships I have with the people around me.
people will have issues, that much is a given. the way I have approached this is to help other people to understand. many men will see it as a betrayal, and other men will be confused and some women will also see it as odd.
people who see a man suddenly become a woman, will struggle with it. but people who realise that somebody they thought of s one way is actually another way, it's a difference in perspective and more likely to gain acceptance among those I care about.

in actuality, the changes I want in my life are for me. they aren't to effect how others see me.  I don't plan to change my hobbies or the clothes i normally wear. not as a habit anyhow.  but there will be differences and I think that by helping people to feel comfortable with what they are presented with, it will help my social circles to remain largely intact.

What you are describing is more something that would happen if you transition. If you don't visibly change, most people will not ever, ever, ever see you as a woman. Even when you transition hormonally, they still might not. But I am pretty sure unless you have the most progressive friends in the world that just telling them won't change much if you have no plans to transition. They will think it's a phase or that you are not really serious. The one thing I hear over and over again about transsexuals from people is the say "it must be true of you would go thru all of that. it's so courageous." They are talking about transitioning and surgery.

This is especially true if you don't plan on changing a single thing. I think people will be fine and completely okay with what you tell them because you are not taking any steps. it's taking hormones and visibly changing that causes problmes. Not the coming out in and of itself.