I went to my regularly scheduled doctor's appointment to go over lab work. I had been exercising a lot before the last set of blood work, and I tried pretty hard on working on my diet. Well...it seems as if the numbers keep getting worse no matter what I try. My LDL skyrocketed while my HDL stayed incredibly low. My dose has been lowered again in an attempt to help this situation. My family has a history of high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and other cardiovascular problems. I was so upset with myself about this. My blood sugar, thankfully was normal, my T was around 500 and my lab work was done a day or two before shot day. My blood pressure was very high when I came in (140/98) even while listening to meditative music and trying to calm myself with deep breaths. By the end of the appointment my BP went down to 124/70(something).

I know my dad has similar problems, but my family is not very supportive of me dieting. It's strange that they're first to judge my weight, and the first to judge my attempt at eating better.

That blows

Some people, genetically, have higher cholesterol levels, and they're fine with it - but there's some other key levels that dictate whether you really are fine or whether you're in for future problems and it's not just HDL levels:

- homocysteine (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/homocysteine-risk)
- c reactive protein (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/heart-disease-c-reactive-protein-crp-testing)

Those two levels aren't always tested and compared with overall cholesterol and other health factors (such as exercise and eating proper diet).

Do you eat a lot of meat?

Are you getting enough B vitamins?

Are you getting enough of the good omega fats?

I've gotten a lot of info on this sort of thing from my nutritionist since the one side of my family (including myself) have higher overall cholesterol levels (but my levels of the other things are pretty excellent).

Just some thoughts.

I am genetically predispositioned to have higher cholesterol, my dad has it, sisters, brothers, etc. but the longer I've been on testosterone the higher those numbers have climbed. Right now my total is around 230 with my LDL being around 210 and my HDL being around 20. Pre-T my HDL was very low (10) and my LDL was okay (around 100). Doing a little google search, I might not be able to afford both tests (the homocysteine one seems really expensive). I pay out of pocket and I'm low income. I'm still not able to afford my last set of lab work which cost much more than I thought it would be.

I do eat a lot of meat, probably too much red meat. I know for sure that I'm getting enough B2, B3, B6, and B12. I take 2 omega 3 pills a day (one dose according to what the label says).

Just popping in to say I hope things get better Nygeel.  Will they be doing more tests soon?

How long have you been working out for before going to get the lab tests? Maybe you need more time for it to affect your body in a more positive way.

Quote from: Nygeel on July 25, 2013, 11:13:52 PM
I do eat a lot of meat, probably too much red meat.

Try cutting back on the red meat, at least the fatty American kind of red meat. Grass fed cattle is supposed to be a lot healthier than the grain-fed cattle that comes from the US (people in Chile and Argentina eat way more red meat then Americans but tend to have healthier hearts, part of the theory is that their red meat is leaner than ours) or leaner red meat, like hunted venison.

My suggestion is to try an almost-paleo diet. After watching the movie "Fat Head" I tried it and had great results with it.  Another guy on here also had good results with it but I don't remember where I saw that thread.  Good luck!

I can't get grass fed beef because it's too expensive and there aren't any farms nearby or farmer markets to buy directly. Today I didn't eat any meat, no butter, no beef, nothing fried, no cheese. Did eat a couple apples and some pasta. My thing is that pre-packaged foods are easy to make and are not good for you. I'm not the person who makes food decisions in the family so I don't have control over what I eat. If I can get them on board this whole diet thing would work out well and be a breeze.

I'm not looking for weight loss or anything, just getting my heart into a better health situation.

I've been told to go back for lab work in 3 months (before this it was every 6 months). I was working out a whole lot (5 days a week) for a month before my tests. Right now my T is a little under 500 and my dose is being lowered. I think if I do everything and go hard I should be able to make a decent enough impact for my doctor to be satisfied. The problem is having to stick with everything after.

A dietician would be awesome...but it sucks that they cost so much money! BAH!

Concerning the cholesterol...

As controversial as it seems, the best thing for high cholesterol? Polyunsaturated and Monounsaturated or also known as Essential Fatty Acids (EFA's). The best source is olive oil, fish, avocado, nuts etc. They raise HDL while lowering LDL/Triglycerides.

The absolute worst thing for high cholesterol is trans and saturated fatty acids (I personally call these Deadly Fatty Acids). They raise LDL/Triglycerides while pushing HDL down. Those two are the ONLY fats you should cut. NOT unsaturated fats.

As an aside, dietary "cholesterol" actually doesn't have anything to do with your cholesterol, so don't worry about that. It's OK and even much better to have your eggs with their vitamin-rich yokes. They are worth their marginal amount of saturated fat (and that's natural saturated fat so it's not as bad as the artificial ones in junk processed/GMO 'food').

Unfortunately, your own body fat does have a lot to do with your cholesterol. Your cholesterol level will also actually spike when you are in ketosis (true fat loss) because of this fact. I've seen my own labs reflect this. It has to get worse before it will get better. Don't get discouraged if that happens.

Here's my records of cholesterol, for whatever they may help you or anyone else (can't find them pre-2011 sorry. Not paying $80 for records lol)...

Before T
3/9/2011 (no diet)
Total: 220
HDL: 40
LDL: 163
Triglycerides: 86
Colesterol/HDL: 5.5
5/7/2012 (no diet)
Total: 260
HDL: 36
LDL: 187
Triglycerides: 939
7/6/2012 ('Mediterranean diet' from mid-May)
Total: 177
HDL: 34
LDL: 113
Triglycerides: 149
Cholesterol/HDL: 5.2
7/18/2012 ('Mediterranean diet')
Total: 130 [had to be a lab error; 230?]
HDL: 32
LDL: 166
Triglycerides: 159
On T
1/17/2013 (no diet, stopped 'Mediterranean diet' from life-threatening hypo attack mid-July)
Total: 200
HDL: 26
LDL: 137
Triglycerides: 184
^that's not so shabby, considering. Not great but not horrendous either.

To clarify, the 'Mediterranean diet' caused my most severe hypoglycemia attack to date because I'm apparently among the 3 out of 5 that experience horrendous blood sugar spikes (worse than after a candy bar) from so-called 'whole wheat'. That was the significant change I'd made, replacing all the white flour carbohydrate sources to 'wheat'. For me, that was a nearly fatal mistake but not likely to be if you're the 2 out of 5 that don't get wild sugar swings from 'wheat'. It is, clearly, a very good plan for cholesterol and heart health and also weight loss. But, beware of 'wheat'. Its not the same wheat past generations enjoyed. Its 'genetically modified' garbage and good luck finding any of it that isn't. I also have metabolic issues to begin with so that likely has to do with it. Not necessarily typical.

Another clarification concerning the higher cholesterol from ketosis, I have been in ketosis the entire time I've been on T to date (I can actually see this in... my urine; I have a oily kind of sheen that's because of the ketones; this is not the same as diabetic ketoacidosis though). I've been watching what I eat (not technically a 'diet') and my cholesterol is borderline. I feel it is like that now because of my body using its own fat for fuel. Even though my weight hasn't changed that much, I've displaced the fat while gaining the muscle... same difference as 'fat loss' really.

Just in case you or someone else might find all of that helpful.


As to the blood pressure... might be time for meds. Beta blockers are wonderful. I was on them briefly because when my cortisol was high (117 mcg/24hr), that was causing it to crest into the 140/100 range, averaging 130/90. Those brought it right down to 180/80-ish.

I think that the blood pressure is probably more of an issue of stress and needing to do more stress reduction. When it comes to going to the doctor, I just get anxious being there. On top of that, they take my blood pressure when I first go in where I'm super nervous, then (pretty much all the time) they take my BP AFTER they give me bad news. I have a BP machine at home that I use at random to see where I am. I did research before about what kind of diet would help with my cholesterol and what changes I should make. I did make SOME changes but they were not significant enough.

Quote from: Nygeel on July 26, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
I think that the blood pressure is probably more of an issue of stress and needing to do more stress reduction. When it comes to going to the doctor, I just get anxious being there. On top of that, they take my blood pressure when I first go in where I'm super nervous, then (pretty much all the time) they take my BP AFTER they give me bad news.

I was just thinking that too. Do you do any meditations? (funny, I thought of you while meditating) If you meditate every day, it'll help calm your mind overall so you might be more calm while you're at the doctor and then have lower BP results. I find listening to some vaheguru simrans  or Tibetan singing bowls on YouTube helps aid in meditation. Just helping yourself calm down might help you out until you're able to get control of the food pantry. 

Also, laughter yoga is helpful, you should try it. 

Quote from: Nygeel on July 26, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
I think that the blood pressure is probably more of an issue of stress and needing to do more stress reduction. When it comes to going to the doctor, I just get anxious being there. On top of that, they take my blood pressure when I first go in where I'm super nervous, then (pretty much all the time) they take my BP AFTER they give me bad news. I have a BP machine at home that I use at random to see where I am. I did research before about what kind of diet would help with my cholesterol and what changes I should make. I did make SOME changes but they were not significant enough.

Qi Gong works wonders for stress. I've been doing it since January and have noticed a lot of improvement and I only do about 20-30 min a day. You can start with super simple stuff like The key is the super slow movements and breathing ... it's like moving meditation almost. Anyway, that's something you could try that wouldn't cost anything.

The 120/80 blood pressure thing was an "average" based on not too much of a sampling originally. Now, there's some doctors who will claim that's "borderline high". This of course gets more prescription drugs sold for even people without typical high blood pressure problems (for instance, my dad, who's unmedicated blood pressure averages 180/110 - which is most certainly high).

It sucks when you live in a household where someone else is buying all the food and/or making most of the meals. If you can manage to get in things like oats, barley, or other whole grains, beans (not the veggie, the legume), apples, and walnuts that could help over time too.

I haven't had my cholesterol checked in over a year, but I will with my next blood test next month. The lab my doctor uses does the c-reactive protein along with the other tests but I do end up paying out of pocket like $270. My last levels were 65 for HDL and 133 for LDL and my c-r-p was only .4. I rarely eat any meat though (and when I do I do splurge for the organic stuff and I haven't eaten red meat in 20 years). I mostly eat veggies, the occasional fruit, beans, and whole grains.

Honestly...I could feel on days that if I had two days in a row where I didn't go to the gym that I would feel more stressed out.

Here in Aus we have butter and milk that helps lower cholesterol, i assume most places have it, i cant guarantee that it works - but maybe its worth a try?
Has your doc started talking about putting you on medication to keep your levels in check? - hope things pick up next test

Quote from: Geek on July 27, 2013, 12:12:01 AM
Here in Aus we have butter and milk that helps lower cholesterol, i assume most places have it, i cant guarantee that it works - but maybe its worth a try?
Has your doc started talking about putting you on medication to keep your levels in check? - hope things pick up next test

He's saying that T is one of the causes of my elevated cholesterol, which is why the dose was lowered. I'm broke, I don't have insurance, and getting my T script is difficult enough. So, if it keeps going up even with diet, exercise, and lowering my T dose then I might have my dose lowered some more instead of going on pills and really, I don't want to go on pills. I see my dad taking like 20 pills a day for his blood pressure and cholesterol and still had a heart attack! I know that's looking WAY forward in things but I don't want to be that.

Quote from: Nygeel on July 27, 2013, 01:29:36 AM
He's saying that T is one of the causes of my elevated cholesterol, which is why the dose was lowered. I'm broke, I don't have insurance, and getting my T script is difficult enough. So, if it keeps going up even with diet, exercise, and lowering my T dose then I might have my dose lowered some more instead of going on pills and really, I don't want to go on pills. I see my dad taking like 20 pills a day for his blood pressure and cholesterol and still had a heart attack! I know that's looking WAY forward in things but I don't want to be that.

if youre comfy with your dose being lowered thats cool then! fortnightly shots are sometimes too much effort :p i couldnt deal with taking pills everyday either! plus all that ->-bleeped-<- is bound to end up doing bad things to you eventually anyway