My parents, "will love me no matter what I do," according to them, but they adamantly refuse to call me a he, and their son because, "they can't see me that way."

I've tried reasoning with them, and explaining my position, and coming clean about the fact that I basically cringe every time I hear myself referred to as female, and my mom basically responds with, "I swear, I don't know how to talk to you sometimes."

I'm basically thinking, "yes mom, I recognize you don't know how to talk to me, you won't even use my preferred pronouns. I did in fact come out to you, I don't know, five years ago, at the age of fifteen, and you say you support me, but I can't help but not feel this support?"

I love my parents. I do, but they can't get over their selfish, "my baby daughter," garbage, and I don't even know how to move on with my life as long as I can't even transition because my own parents will constantly out me and I feel worse than trapped and I do not know what to do. I can't even go on T because I'm going to go out to a restaurant with stubble and sideburns with my stubborn parents and be called a daughter and want to crawl into a hole and die. I also can't move out, because I don't have the means to and I would essentially be screwed.

I don't even know how coherent most of this is, so, TL;DR, basically, how do you explain to a brick wall that your preferred pronouns are important? I can't seem to find a resource on why pronouns are important for "allies" to read?

Also, bonus question, what do you say to a person who says stupid things like, you must hate them, "because you hating yourself being one gender means you hate the whole gender?" Apparently me being gay makes this extra confusing and particularly offensive?

just my 2 cents not counting inflation but if the argument revolves around pronouns and only that you'll lose by default because the parents can say "I raised you as x so that's what you'll be" even if the wording isn't that direct.

The best way to show progress in gender identity is being happy as a man. They will eventually get the message because there is no negotiating over how to be called or what might do in years from now (which eventually turns into a form of negotiation; where they want the image they see "one" more time for the sake of 'family').

The pronoun thing is just the one that bugs me the most because it's just so simple and they can't even try for the sake of my mental health.

They're basically obsessed with telling me that I'm a girl, "because that's reality and you can't be what you're not, and I won't call you that when that's not what I see," and, "well, we're not in your head, we can't see what you see and we'll never understand," and, "the rest of the world will never see you that way, because it's not what you are, and nobody will ever call you that, ever."

I don't even know where to start getting through to them and it drives me crazy that they don't understand that being supportive involves more than, "well we're not kicking you out, and we still love you, therefore we're being supportive."

I didn't even bother calling them out on it for several years, and now that I've pretty much reached my wit's end, they still won't listen to me.

I don't even care if they understand, I just... I wish they could just get over themselves and actually call me something that doesn't make me want to die.

Plus they've basically scared me into the closet and I don't even slightly know what to do at this point in my life. I don't know how to be happy as a man when I can't even pass without T because I'm a shrimp and people just assume I'm a weirdly effeminate butch lesbian, and my parents don't know how to not out me every 6 seconds.

...oh god I'm probably as delusional as they are, even trying to get them to understand.

It seems to me that no matter how much you try your parents will probably just not listen. Flan's right about just being the man you are. The reality will eventually set in and all their arguments will be moot; imagine if you got a face tattoo, your parents could bitch and criticize and call you ugly but the longer they look at it the less they can deny it.

Another idea would be to ask your parents to accompany you to therapy, or find a family therapist. It sounds awkward and having been in therapy with my mother I assure you it really is. But it can be worth it; your parents may need to hear your side from someone else for it to really sink in. and just maybe the pressure of not seeming like an ->-bleeped-<- in front of a stranger might make them listen.

Good luck and keep your head up, don't let their selfishness derail your transition. Just power on, have confidence that you're doing to best thing for yourself.

Just remember; face tattoo.

In fact maybe getting a face tattoo will distract them from the whole trans* thing

Quote from: identifiedproblem on July 29, 2013, 10:20:16 PM
Also, bonus question, what do you say to a person who says stupid things like, you must hate them, "because you hating yourself being one gender means you hate the whole gender?" Apparently me being gay makes this extra confusing and particularly offensive?

That's exactly where I am, just vice versa. I'm a lesbian MTF.

I hope hope hope that I won't face the problems you have. But I fear the only thing you can do is give them some time. If you still want to transition and want it to be stealth, you will have to move; I'm sorry. You will have to have enough miles between you and your parents to not let them expose you.

I bet they start to think the soon you move. My parents, my brother and me have a better relationship since the "kids" left the parent's flat.

I would suggest asking them how they would feel if you refused to call them Mom and Dad throughout your childhood.

You could also ask them what they think the word empathy means.

I would consider moving out. Nothing is gained by staying in an unsatisfactory relationship.

Some people get it, and some people don't.

My mom asked me once, ie she initiated the comment, 'would I want her to call me her daughter?'.

I have not bugged her, because at 80 her memory is not ideal at any rate. She introduces me as her son, but considering I still look like a male even if I am wearing jewellery and carrying a purse, it doesn't seem enough yet.

But some people simply will not get the level of importance.

It just means you need to fail to recognize something that is important to them.

Call your mom by her first name and think nothing of it and don't defer to her being older, treat her as just another person not deserving special mention. Talk to her like you would any other human you had no reason to defer to. Do the same with your dad. If his name if Frank, call him Frank and address him as if he was just someone at work.

My sister for instance, I could just tell people shes a secretary in an insurance company. She's NOT a secretary of course, she's a highly skilled professional in the insurance business, she is not just a receptionist  by any stretch

Acceptance means accepting. Platitudes and bland offerings of lame support are not acceptable and not a reflection of acceptance. "oh we will always love you". Fine then, show it, should be the correct response.

It doesn't take any magical effort to refer to a person correctly. It also takes no effort to refrain from giving them any credit either.
If they want respect from you, it runs both ways.

I don't expect anything from strangers. If I look male to a stranger, I don't hold it against them to think I am one.
My friends and family KNOW I am female, know precisely why, because I told them in no unspecific terms.

That's the biggest hell of transition though. You will have to grin and bear it and realize you get nothing out of hiding. The sooner you find out who will hate you the better, the sooner you discover your real friends the better. The sooner you are not worrying about it the better.

I tell everyone it is not a secret, I don't want them acting like it is, they can tell anyone they danged well feel like it, I am not going to bring it up ad naseum though. I only mention it when it matters to me. I have no privacy settings set on my Facebook page. The whole world has access to me.

Every time someone that knows me, refuses to treat me as female, they go on a list of people who have no reason to expect getting credit for anything in their lives. Sorry accept me as I am, or none of your life impresses me either. I won't extend acknowledgement of professional credentials etc. You're a lawyer? whatever, a doctor? whatever, don't wait for me to care what letters follow your name. You won some award, really? I hadn't noticed.
Sir and mam are privileges I can revoke.

Sometimes the pronoun issue fixes itself once on hormones. It's harder to call someone 'she' when they look physically male. I didn't ask my family for pronouns. It just kind of happened. I agree with Flan. You just have to live as a man, and they may come around. Right now, this is still at a conceptual level as far as they're concerned. Try to concentrate on the steps you need to take to get where you want to go. If your transition plan involves T, concentrate on getting from point A to point B. I know the pronoun issue sucks but once you transition if nothing else strangers will call you by the right pronouns even if your family never comes around.

Since I dont see my parents often, its been fairly easy. They live overseas, one in Germany, one in Scotland. So we have to communicate through email and the odd video chat. Getting them to use female pronouns has never been a problem, but, it wasnt until my last video chat with my Dad several months ago that it really changed a lot. He said to me that for the first time, he could see my potential as a woman. Before hrt, he couldnt quite see me passing for one.

So now, he calles me "honey", etc. In his emails. And when he did that, I finally felt like I was finally his Daughter. But he had to see the changes for it to really hit him that it was really happening.

Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 30, 2013, 08:16:23 AM
I know the pronoun issue sucks but once you transition if nothing else strangers will call you by the right pronouns even if your family never comes around.

This happened to last weekend and it felt better to hear it from people I don't know than from people who I have to constantly remind. Keep in mind that the people who you see every day probably still see a lot of the old you. (physically that is) While the people that you just meet will only know you only as you are right now. And if they use the pronouns that you want to hear you know you pass. Let me tell you there is no better feeling.

I tend to cut parents and other family members a little slack. Old habits just die hard. Just be thankful for their support and eventually, like someone else said, once on hormones and the more masuline you become they'll probably come around.