Hey all, Maka here again asking for some help.

Okay, so a few weeks prior to this, I told mother I wanted to see a gender therapist because I thought I was transsexual. (In truth I'm almost positive I'm transsexual.) After some displays of my tears and displays of how she has little knowledge on the subject, she came to me the next morning telling me I had an appointment with the therapist she goes to, because he's worked wonders for her in all of the problems she's had. So I went to the first appointment with mother in the room. It was basically just that initial meeting where he learns everything he can about your history, life story and personality. There was little to no reference as to why I was actually there. Understandable, I mean it's good that he bothers to get to know me. One week later I went to see him again, this time on my own. The first half of the hour-long appointment he asked me about where I plan to be in the future, careers, etc. Basically what I wanted to do with my life. To me this seemed a little irrelevant, but I guess he's the therapist, not me. And as great a therapist he's supposed to be, I can't help getting the feeling he's no GT. (I assume this stands for gender therapist?) He's supposed to be impartial to my decision, but the questions he asks me, and the manner in which he does so, it just makes me feel like he's just one more person I have to convince, one more person trying to tell me I'm wrong.
As it were, mother was the one who set up the initial appointment, and the first to explain the "problem." And I know for a fact that she desperately does not want me to be trans, not in the way where she flat out tells me she won't support me if I am. She will, says she'll still love me regardless. But it's as the saying goes, "people believe what they want to believe." And she firmly wants to believe I'm not trans. So she keeps finding bits of "evidence" to cling on to to support her. Yesterday she told me I couldn't be trans because she had been reading about it and "nearly all of those people knew it back when they were like toddlers. And you were so, not." *eyeroll*
Anyhow, after my appointment yesterday, the therapist told me I had to write down the similarities and differences between a cisgendered man (not the word he used, kind of doubt he's ever had a trans client before.) who is beautiful however still male, and a transwoman, or as he phrased it, "a male bodied person who believes they are female." This feels like a test he does not want me to pass, and this irks me. Anyhow, do any of you have any suggestions as to what I should say to this man to get it through his thick skull that I am in fact a girl?

Thanks again, with passion, Maka

Wow Makalii that sounds awful.  Unless you are a minor it is inappropriate, at best, for this "great" therapist to be seeing/counseling your mother and you individually or with your mom in the room.  What level of privacy and empathy does this guy offer you?  If you feel like you need to convince him of your gender identity this does not seem to be the place to get help.  You may want to ask him about his knowledge and experience with transgender people and accepted standards for treatment.  Ultimately it is your own acceptance or rejection of a transgender identity that counts.

Tessa

Maka,

You may want to Google this therapist and see if transgender issues are really his specialty. It sounds like maybe not.

When your issues are related to gender, you ABSOLUTELY MUST find someone who has training and experience in dealing with these specific issues, including familiarity with communities like this one. Only then can you be sure that you will get the appropriate care.

Good luck!

Lora

Honestly, I don't think it is bad to consider what you want out of the future.  It's a good way to test yourself (not your therapist) about your path and where you are heading.  Sometimes we don't know and things are subject to change.  That's perfectly okay.  Yet, it is something worth considering.  And I think a wise therapist would like to see that you have put thought about where you are heading or at least where you'd like to head. 

While I think comparing a cis-male and transwoman is a bit weird, I think I can see where he is coming from.  It's not that he saying that either are alike or the same.  He is trying to see your thought pattern.   He may be doing this to be  a gatekeeper, but he could also be doing this to help you come to further self realization.   What is the difference to you and why do you feel the distinction is important?  It may seem painfully obvious to those of us on the forum, but sometimes things like this really help those who are confused learn about where they fit on the spectrum.  When my therapist asked me what does it mean to be a women to me, I thought it was a simple yet powerful question.

Having said that, I haven't met your therapist and don't have the experience with him that you have.  It's very likely you could be right about him being a gatekeeper.  I just think there is another possibility because I don't think anything that was said so far was bad.  Do you know if he has any experience with any other trans patients and what he feels about hrt?  These are questions worth asking if you plan to invest your time as a patient with him. 

Maka,

Three thoughts:

(1) I didn't know I was trans until age 50. I'm now living full-time as a woman and know it is the way I was meant to live.

(2) I actually don't think that's a bad exercise. Someone who says "women get more dates, women have guys pay for them, women have more clothing variety" is probably not transgender. Someone who says, "I hate it when I realize I'm male, I hate that my body doesn't look like a females, I hate that people treat me like a man" is more likely to be transgender.

So here are some differences:

A transgender woman is dysphoric because she's living as a male. She doesn't like having people see her as a male, she doesn't like having a male body, she doesn't like having to dress like a male, doesn't like her male name, etc.

A girly cis-guy doesn't mind living as a male, doesn't mind having people see him as a male, doesn't mind having a male body, doesn't mind wearing male clothes, doesn't mind having a male name, etc.

Is that what you're looking for?

(3) If you continue to have a sense that he is hostile to transgender diagnoses, switch therapists if you can. I had just one session with a (famous) psychiatrist who had that attitude and it screwed me up for months.

Just something maybe you want to ask is if they understand or willing to understand the WPATH standards of care? and if they do not i would refuse to waste anymore time. My first theropist had no knowlege with any gender dysphoria and would see me to help me with the major depression side of things. But after a few weeks he was the first to give me a diagnosis of severe Gender Identity Disorder (now its Gender dyspheoria)

ie: If sufficiently severe, the imperative may result in gender reassignment surgery. This is not always the case and should nothing should be assumed until you work on all your inner feelings. I did move on to someone who for many years made it her lifes work to deal with GID and whe was my gatekeeper through most of my process.

Good luck i now its a lot to deal with but do not give up hope, keep yourself safe and keep that shield up when dealing with the not so supportive outside world.

Hugs
Izzy

For clarity, I didn't mean to imply it was a bad exercise. In fact, it's something very much worth doing (even if only to realize that they aren't necessarily what you may at first think).

But it just does not sound to me like the place where a therapist with experience with transgender clients would start.

If you Google the therapist, you'll find listings where he has described his own practice and specialties. It's pretty easy to tell from that whether you've got someone who is a generalist or a specialist. Not all generalists are bad, of course. But, as has been mentioned, the wrong therapist can make things worse in a real hurry.

Lora

Quote from: translora on August 01, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
For clarity, I didn't mean to imply it was a bad exercise. In fact, it's something very much worth doing (even if only to realize that they aren't necessarily what you may at first think).

But it just does not sound to me like the place where a therapist with experience with transgender clients would start.

If you Google the therapist, you'll find listings where he has described his own practice and specialties. It's pretty easy to tell from that whether you've got someone who is a generalist or a specialist. Not all generalists are bad, of course. But, as has been mentioned, the wrong therapist can make things worse in a real hurry.

Lora

That's true.  However,  the lists I have seen of transfriendly therapists and endos always seemed very incomplete.  I wouldn't discount anyone from a mere google search.  Though, it would help to see if he is experienced with trans patients and if your local lgbt center has them on their referral list.   

Please.  Find a qualified GT who has the training and ability to evaluate you.  Even though you say your under age, most US states give kids 14 and over the right to see a doctor or therapist of their choice.  And although your mother loves you, she's not a therapist and doesn't have the detailed education to evaluate you.  Listen to her because she loves you, but  don't assume she's right (you already concluded this).

As far as homework goes, I got a similar request from a doctor and therapist back when I started.  It wasn't needed, and when I saw my Psychiatrist and the currentl GT they both said to stop and focus on my problems.  All they asked was for me to write down 5 or 6 once sentence things I wanted to talk about in my next appointment. 

If you are evaluated Trans or somewhere in the middle, it's great that you're finding out now, and who knows, maybe you're not (but I'm no therapist eithe).   I didn't get a chance to accept my gender when I was young because it wasn't something done in the 60's.

Good luck.  Kathy

But if you want something just for your own homework google a few of these on the list: Dr. Christine McGinn, Dr Marci Bowers,  Kylan Arianna Wenzel, Chaz Bono, Janet Mock, Christine Jorgensen, Lucas Silveira, Lea T, Renée Richards, Isis King, Kim Coco Iwamoto, Kye Allums, Diego Sanchez, Stu Rasmussen, Dr. Carys Massarella, Balian Buschbaum, Jennifer Finney Boylan. Kim Petras (at 16 youngest to have GCS) etc... the list goes on and on of those who Transitioned. Maybe he is asking because he want to know if you know???

luck
Izzy

Quotethe lists I have seen of transfriendly therapists and endos always seemed very incomplete.

Indeed, frustratingly so. My experience using lists of specifically "trans-friendly" providers was wholly negative. Some that I called right off of specific "trans-friendly" lists provided by local support organizations had literally no experience in the area. One psychologist was even surprised to hear that she was on such a list because it just wasn't her thing. On the other hand, when I asked such people who they might recommend, I always got names which weren't on any of the lists I had seen. And those turned out to be the good ones!

Next came the Google searches based on the names I got. And when looking at what providers say about themselves (which is all you really accomplish by using a search engine and checking out web sites), it's easy to spot those with either no experience or no specialty. Put it this way: If a psychologist's web site talks a lot about trauma or eating disorders and doesn't even mention trans issues, then that's probably not a good fit. Similarly, if all you find are casual mentions of trans issues, perhaps in the proverbial "list of conditions treated", then you probably should move on.

I knew I'd found the right one (or at least one worth trying; you never know until you meet them in person) when I saw that she hosted trans-support groups once a week, had lots of links to transgender resources (including this site), and listed a wide variety of trans-related issues among her specialties.

Ultimately, I met with three prospective therapists, any of whom would probably have worked for me. The ultimate decision was based on -- of all the worst possible criteria -- which one I could best afford based on insurance considerations. Happily, she's great, and the process is working just as it should.

All of this may be a little overwhelming for someone as young as Maka, but my kids had learned how to use Google before they were in school, so I'm sure she can get her hands on good info about the person she's seeing. If it turns out that he's qualified, then she should go for it! But if not, she should get out -- and quick.

Lora

Well,  the guy I was first seeing also started asking me about my future plans, how I see myself in my life etc. The reason why they are doing this is - IMO - to spread some fear and also pour a bit of cold water on You, describing how all those wonderful things You are imagining, might not come true if You transition. They might just be willing to convince You, to see how much You will resist or just plainly impose their own opinion... If those questions start involving sexuality - beware - that might be a signal that he does not have a clue about trans issues and is mixing orientation and identity.
Those written tests... I hated them too and it was one of the reasons I changed my therapist. There was the first test, which consisted of over 70 questions, most of which were about childhood. Then he told me to write down an essay what a happy female life means to me - and then proceeded to bash my writings on the basis that I was speaking about emotions rather than practical things. I got impression that he had no idea about those emotions, as well as he would be probably the last person I would ask about what does a happy female life means, but that's the way it was. The final written test was to write down adjectives which would describe my mother... and then he wondered if those were true because some those adjectives looked like being taken from a book...

And it all ended when he was really insisting that leading a life of an effeminate guy could also be an option, because it is 21st century and guys dont have to be warriors and hunters. I told him that if I was forced to stay in male body, then I would rather play that "warrior" role because at least that would dull my feelings, while trying to play a role of an effeminate guy would just give me triggers all the time, besides effeminate guys often look unnatural. Of course, that did not convince him either

By the way, I disagree about that main differences between girly-guy and transwoman is clothing and lifestyle. Though I hate my male name and I am rather indifferent about my male parts (I never hated them, but if one day it would have disappeared - I would not see that as an issue) - if I have to wear male clothes, while I am looking as male - I would see that as a lesser evil and I would use that option. I do not hate male clothes, per se. I always hated suits and ties and I am seeing an  increasing hate towards military style, which used to be favourite, but I just cant and wont wear camo. But if male jeans look better on me - why not? Besides there are oh so many male tops, which accentuate minor curves in a very discreet but present manner . I also hate male bicycles, because they are inconvenient - I drive city-bike with female frame and accessories, but nobody gives a damn about it, because a lot of guys are acknowledging the benefits of female-frame bikes .  So this distinction is more complicated than clothing, presentation and lifestyle .

I've not done any 'tests' for my therapist, nor have I done any 'homework'.

My therapist is there for me to discuss stuff with..

Well today is the day. wish me luck. And thank you all for your wonderful input! 

Quote from: Makalii on August 06, 2013, 12:00:10 PM
Well today is the day. wish me luck. And thank you all for your wonderful input! 

Luck be with you. Try to relax, be honest and yourself.

Izzy

Your wish is granted ;-) and your journey of a lifetime is rolling down the runway to take flight.  Please keep us informed about how it goes.

A bit late for good wishes, but I hope it went well!

Quote from: translora on July 31, 2013, 02:12:16 PM
Maka,

You may want to Google this therapist and see if transgender issues are really his specialty. It sounds like maybe not.

When your issues are related to gender, you ABSOLUTELY MUST find someone who has training and experience in dealing with these specific issues, including familiarity with communities like this one. Only then can you be sure that you will get the appropriate care.

Good luck!

Lora

In my experience, competent gender specialists are hard to find; however, those with gay and lesbian experience understand the concepts.  If you are outside a major metropolitan area, a gender therapist you can meet face-to-face might be hard to find.

Thank you all for the good luck! ^_^ It went fantastic! He's totally on board now with the fact that I'm female!!

That's great news. Go for it, girl!