This is really the only trans site I frequent. I've looked at some others but this one seemed to be better at just having less "drama" for lack of a better word.

There is one thing that I've noticed though. It feels like there's still an undertone of pressure that if you're trans, medical transition is where you eventually end up, sooner or later. While almost everyone will say things along the lines of "everyone is different", "transition isn't for everyone", "take your time to decide", etc., the unspoken thing still feels like, "transition is the answer".

When I was younger, I didn't know about transition. I didn't even know about what transsexual was until I was into my teens. I just had to deal with my issues like countless other people have over the years – really by not doing much of anything. I'd been to a therapist, who declared I had a disorder, and that kind of set me off on a bad path. And still, through my 20's I really didn't know transition was a thing. I'd read a couple random stories about MtF sex changes, but nothing for people going female to male. Loren Cameron was the first FTM I ever knew about. I remember the first time I saw a picture of him, I was jealous for sure. But I also felt like I could never do that. Not that I wasn't male, but that I couldn't have all these surgeries, removing things ... adding things ... taking hormones. For years, every night I went to sleep I would try to create a perfect life in my dreams where I had the body I always thought I should have had since birth. Meanwhile, my waking life was still moving forward, while I put gender on the back burner, or attempted coping mechanisms that didn't have do to with anything medical.

Warp up to the last 5 or so years. I kind of came out of hiding within myself and confronted the gender thing head on. There were points where it was pretty brutal. No one in my life knew, so confronting it in solitude was not the best. I secretly saw a therapist for a few sessions. Basically, they told me that if I wasn't willing to transition, then I was simply a "female" who was confused. This was similar to years ago when I was a teen. And this was a therapist who deals with LGBT issues. It was upsetting to say the least. I realize there's good therapists out there, but I've not come across them and I'm well past the point of wanting to talk to one. I started doing more research on the web, and seeking out sites like this one. However, like some elephant in every room I went into, I kept bumping into the,  "if you're transsexual, then you want to transition" thing. Everywhere it seemed to be everyone's driving goal. Everyone rushing to get synthetic hormones into their bloodstream and never look back. I tried it, mostly because I needed to see it/experience it for myself. It didn't work for me. And I knew, once again, just like I had when I first looked at Loren Cameron, that I couldn't go there.

And now there's seems to be 31 Flavors of genders, at least from looking at the web. Yet western society is still decidedly binary. There are two options: male and female. If you fall somewhere in between, then it seems you pick one of those 31 flavors and become an outcast to most of society. This is why I'm not "out". Could be a bit cowardly on my part, but I don't need the extra drama and stress in my life of people dealing with me totally differently because of some announcement I've made. Perhaps one day, being trans or internex or anything that's not the typical female or male model will be more accepted. I've seen a lot of change in in the lesbian and gay community just in the last few years. Gay marriage is legal in more states that it was 2 years ago. I have hope that I won't always feel like the outcast.

But the thing is, I wonder how many people really are out there who are like me? Someone brought up in another thread in the non-op board that I started that there is no support network for non-transitioners. And recently I've seen on these boards more talk about things like "transtrenders", or "not trans enough". And then there's that underlying pressure I keep sensing – the feeling that, regardless of what people say or type on a message board, it's pretty clear cut that medical transition is the main "treatment" if you're trans. So what do you do if you're not transitioning?

Perhaps part of this feeling I get is because it seems relatively easy to obtain medical treatment for transitioning now. Even young people find boards like these and then they know the exact steps they need to take within a hour or two of surfing the web. I could go right out tomorrow and get on hormones. If I had about $6k laying around, I could schedule elective chest surgery. I think the main roadblocks now are not in finding treatment or information about it, it's affording treatment (although I've seen plenty of people say that T is "cheap"). Yet it seems thousands of people are well into the process.

Has there always been this many trans people silently suffering and I was just not aware of it because I did a lot of my growing up before the internet is what it is today? I'm genuinely curious what the statistics show. How many people out of how many births are actually trans? What if this is a bigger variant than people once thought – the brain of one gender, the body of another? That could be a game-changer. What if you could just say, "oh I'm trans" and people could go, "Oh okay, that's cool" then treat you how you wanted to be treated. I know, pipe dream.

A lot of times I feel caught between two things I'm not ("female" if I don't come out, and, depending on who's judging me, anywhere from "freak" to simply a trans person if I do come out) and it's sometimes difficult to tread a middle ground where I can just be myself without too much hassle. I still feel like an outcast if I have to deal with a group of females ... like they KNOW there's something "not right" with me ... like they have some kind of sixth sense, and I can feel them treating me differently. So much of how people deal with other people is based on gender. So I get why so many people want to transition, so they can feel comfortable in how they're treated by society (not to mention to help curb dysphoria). The people that do know in my life still treat me like me, but I still feel that wouldn't be the majority. I don't really want to be "out" just as much as I don't want to transition. As far as I can tell, I'm quite the oddball.

The only thing I can say is transition only if/when you are ready until then find out what makes you comfortable or even better happy and go with that. You define you no one else can do that.

QuoteA lot of times I feel caught between two things I'm not ("female" if I don't come out, and, depending on who's judging me, anywhere from "freak" to simply a trans person if I do come out) and it's sometimes difficult to tread a middle ground where I can just be myself without too much hassle. I still feel like an outcast if I have to deal with a group of females ... like they KNOW there's something "not right" with me ... like they have some kind of sixth sense, and I can feel them treating me differently. So much of how people deal with other people is based on gender. So I get why so many people want to transition, so they can feel comfortable in how they're treated by society (not to mention to help curb dysphoria). The people that do know in my life still treat me like me, but I still feel that wouldn't be the majority. I don't really want to be "out" just as much as I don't want to transition. As far as I can tell, I'm quite the oddball.

Yeah I feel the same way sometimes. Sometimes I do really want to transition fully -- get on T, change my name, get my boobs chopped off, but then sometimes it's just like, being trans doesn't bother me as much as other trans people, unlike some other people I don't feel suicidal or cringe everytime someone calls me "she". It's like, I could just get chest surgery one day, lift a lot of weights, and continue living as female and be fine. I am still trans, since I do have dysphoria, but transitioning isn't as big as a deal to me as it is to others, or maybe as much as it would if I was younger and knew about all the possibilities then. I also grew up without the internet, didn't know it was possible to transition, so I just learned to deal with it and I've been accepting things more and learning how to appreciate myself and whatever the hell I am, transsexual, genderqueer, or any of these other terms I've never heard of before.

Of course, people should transition if and whenever they want to, but I don't see any rush for me. The average lifespan nowadays for Western nations is in the mid to high 70s. I am only 25, so unless I get in an accident or come down with a terrible disease, I should have decades to make the choice to transition, either fully or partially. If I was younger, like 18, maybe I'd be in a bigger hurry, it'd be nice to start out a career with a male name and have less to worry about changing over later. Now though, I've already started my professional life with one name and identity, I know if I come out as trans that I will loose my job (of course it's illegal, but there's ways to get rid of me without saying its because I am trans, and it's a tough case to prove in a courtroom), I know some people here will just say I am scared of dealing with crap, and while that might be part of it, I just don't see the point in ruining something I've worked so hard to achieve right now when I don't feel as strongly about getting on T as others here. I have a plan for if I want to transition one day and have it not affect my career negatively at all, and I'll just do that when and if I am ever ready to get on T. Whatever, I feel better about my body since I started lifting weights again, I feel stronger and harder, which makes me feel more masculine.

I do detect an undertone of pressure here, like I often see posts that say "it'll be fine when you get on T one day," etc. I do understand why people assume you're looking to get on T, since that's what most guys on here are doing or hoping to do, and it seems like a lot of guys here just fully equate transitioning with getting on hormones and surgery. While no one says it, I've gotten the "not trans enough" vibe by reading through the lines.

Idk, perhaps I am not trans, maybe I am just crazy  , overall I don't care what people here or IRL thinks of me, as long as no one is hurting me (or firing me), think what you want.

I'm the type of person who doesn't care what someone else is doing, as long as it doesn't effect me. Someone doesn't have to medically transition for me to see them as male. They're male on the inside, I get that. Transtrenders are a whole different topic. I see them as the ones who take hormones then get off them only to say that they felt pressured into it. They need to put on their big boy britches and just admit that they made a mistake, correct the mistake, and move on. I don't like people who refuse to grasp the concept of personal responsibility.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 03, 2013, 07:52:03 PM
And now there's seems to be 31 Flavors of genders, at least from looking at the web. Yet western society is still decidedly binary. There are two options: male and female. If you fall somewhere in between, then it seems you pick one of those 31 flavors and become an outcast to most of society.

Yes, from looking at the web there are definitely 31 flavors of gender, but those are being defined by those who have experienced that. I really don't see (at least in my lifetime) society accepting all of those flavors. I myself am binary. The whole point of medically transitioning (for me) was to blend into binary male society and I'm at that point. There are medically transitioning transsexuals who want to be known as being trans and that is fine. While I don't hate being a transsexual I hated being known as a transsexual. I hated the looks, the whispers, being shunned, etc. I'm not doing all this to remain "Simon the ->-bleeped-<-" (as I have been called at previous jobs). It really does become not what you are but WHO you are when cis people know it about you. We are all more than that. Living like that drains you, and it robbed me of my self worth.

If your choice is to not medically transition then more power to you. I don't think it's that we ignore people who choose not to but it's more of a case that you're in the minority. Most are transitioning or wanting/preparing to transition. In a lot of ways I do/don't envy you. I envy that you're able to live without all of this medical/legal drama. I don't envy that society will probably never understand you in your lifetime. That is a big burden to carry.

I think a big part of it might merely be in the label FTM.  Female TO Male actually implies a transition in itself.  Maybe it would be a good idea for a different label?  No idea what it could be but just throwing it out there.  Androgynous is the middle ground but it seems to be perceived more as one way, the other, or in between...I don't envy you!

I do see posts now and then from people who are unable to transition (usually unable to start transition), but the tone is often just a rant about not being able to get on T. I get it, but I think there would be a benefit to even people who have decided they're definitely going to go through with it but are in a holding pattern, to offer other perspectives that might take the edge off. Saying, "it will get better once you get on T" is still kind of dangling a carrot that's not going to happen for the foreseeable future. How do you deal with having to be "female" until the time you can transition? That's the real problematic part. For me, that's just life, but I've picked up some things over the years that have definitely helped me and I'm sure could probably help other people. It's one of the reasons I stick around here even if I don't perfectly fit in.

Quote from: Simon on August 03, 2013, 11:10:25 PM
While I don't hate being a transsexual I hated being known as a transsexual. I hated the looks, the whispers, being shunned, etc.

I stopped hating being trans awhile ago I think. But now, I really don't want to put myself out there for the "looks, whispers, being shunned, etc.". So I totally get wanting to just blend in. I'm definitely not one of those binary haters There is a logic to it. It'd just be nice that on some future date there could be more openness about not fitting in those .

Quote from: CaseyB on August 03, 2013, 08:31:41 PM
I questioned this too, I have wondered how many people would still consider transition if they were living in a genderless society. 

I know the "genderless society" is a pipe dream, but it would be nice to get to the point where people could accept that being trans is normal. Of course I think most trans people get that, but when people are still calling us derogatory names (or worse) and discriminating against us, we're still a long way off from that.

When I was a kid, I didn't have dysphoria. I knew I was different, missing some parts, that sort of thing, but I didn't loathe parts of my body. I was a pretty happy kid. But after gender was clearly pointed out to me, that there's just "two models", etc. and of course as I got older, it started creeping in there. But to me, that kind of makes sense. The further something continues that feels inherently wrong to you, the worse it can feel.

Quote from: LearnedHand on August 03, 2013, 09:49:31 PM
Yeah I feel the same way sometimes. Sometimes I do really want to transition fully -- get on T, change my name, get my boobs chopped off, but then sometimes it's just like, being trans doesn't bother me as much as other trans people...

I feel better about my body since I started lifting weights again, I feel stronger and harder, which makes me feel more masculine.

The thing is, if I could snap my fingers and have the moobs just disappear, I would do that in a heartbeat! The things are annoying, troublesome blobs of flesh that just get in the way of everything and make life physically uncomfortable.

I'm going to pick up the weight training again. I always feel better when I physically exercise like that anyway. And you're right, it does make you feel more masculine, especially when you can start to see some results.

Quote from: Jack_M on August 03, 2013, 11:29:25 PM
I think a big part of it might merely be in the label FTM.  Female TO Male actually implies a transition in itself.  Maybe it would be a good idea for a different label?  No idea what it could be but just throwing it out there.  Androgynous is the middle ground but it seems to be perceived more as one way, the other, or in between...I don't envy you!

Yeah I've always avoided calling myself FTM. I usually just say transsexual. I was born this way, can't help that. It wasn't a choice I made that changed what I previously was. But you're right F to M implies transition. This is why labels can sometimes get crappy haha.

I'd say I'm androgynous for sure. While it doesn't happen often, I have been taken as male in public by certain people before. I've gotten double takes and I can tell that some people really might not be sure (depends how I'm looking on any given day) and don't address me as male or female. When I was a kid, people who didn't know me just thought I was male all the time. We'd go on vacation and I'd meet other boys and we'd play and they'd never know the difference. It was pretty awesome. So at least I had a nice childhood. In my 20's I was still being "mistaken" for physically male more often than not. Maybe I'm an androgynous transsexual? Andro to a-little-more-male ... ATLMM?

Quote from: Jack_M on August 03, 2013, 11:29:25 PM
I think a big part of it might merely be in the label FTM.  Female TO Male actually implies a transition in itself.  Maybe it would be a good idea for a different label?  No idea what it could be but just throwing it out there.  Androgynous is the middle ground but it seems to be perceived more as one way, the other, or in between...I don't envy you!

While F to M does imply some sort of transition, it doesn't necessarily have to be a medical one, it can just be a social one. Maybe a difference label would be more exact, I am already lost enough as it is, do we really need another one? I need to start a dictionary after joining this site. 

Maybe just non-transitioning FTM.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 04, 2013, 12:08:52 AM
I do see posts now and then from people who are unable to transition (usually unable to start transition), but the tone is often just a rant about not being able to get on T. I get it, but I think there would be a benefit to even people who have decided they're definitely going to go through with it but are in a holding pattern, to offer other perspectives that might take the edge off. Saying, "it will get better once you get on T" is still kind of dangling a carrot that's not going to happen for the foreseeable future. How do you deal with having to be "female" until the time you can transition? That's the real problematic part. For me, that's just life, but I've picked up some things over the years that have definitely helped me and I'm sure could probably help other people. It's one of the reasons I stick around here even if I don't perfectly fit in.

I'm one of those people who are unable to start transitioning, but it's something that I need to do in the future.  I don't know when in the future it will be possible, but as long as that possibility is still there I can keep plodding onwards, knowing that it's out there somewhere for when I get the opportunity to grasp it.  What would I do if that was never on the cards for me?  I don't know.  Knowing me I'd end up a complete wreck and drop out of society because I have no safety net of sympathetic teachers to turn a blind eye make my excuses for me when I lose the will to do any of the actions other than the necessities anymore.  One day I would learn to cope, but I'd much rather plod onwards blindly, assuming that transition will be a possibly at some point in the future.  I have no reason to think that I wouldn't be able to transition one day, but I'm a pessimist.

The real reason I'm commenting on here is that I just wanted to say that you definitely do help other people, or at least you help me.  I know our situations are very different, but it's refreshing to see someone who has managed to live with not transitioning and seems to be leading a healthy life despite it all.

I completely agree that there is an assumption that everyone is going to medically transition, and maybe I'm guilty of perpetuating that although I always try and qualify any comments about T or surgery, "if you're aiming for that" if I don't know that person's individual aim.  I suppose a big part of it is that the vast majority of people on here are here because they're looking for information to aid them in their medical and social transition, so people just default to thinking that it's what people want to hear and know about.  Another part of it is probably that a lot of trans people can't see any other way than transitioning, they can't imagine anyone not being able to, or wanting to, or how to advise in that situation because it's so alien to them.

Quote from: CaseyB on August 03, 2013, 08:31:41 PM
I questioned this too, I have wondered how many people would still consider transition if they were living in a genderless society.  I have found that the majority of people, including myself, feel they would still transition, not sure if that is because we have been in a gender driven society for our whole lives and can't imagine a genderless society or if we would still have that dysphoria about our bodies even if we had not had the pressures from society.  I also feel that people are being genuine (I know I am) when they say transition is not for everyone, because not everyone does feel that dysphoria with their body, they feel completely that society is what has to change and not them and they are not wrong.  I hope I have gotten my point across and have not offended anyone.

I would be aiming for transition even in a hypothetical "genderless society" because the majority of my dysphoria is physical, having never fitted into a female role and made it so painfully obvious to everyone that that's not me they've never tried to force me into it (except for my maternal grandmother, but that's one case in a million.)

Quote from: Si on August 03, 2013, 11:10:25 PM
I'm the type of person who doesn't care what someone else is doing, as long as it doesn't effect me. Someone doesn't have to medically transition for me to see them as male. They're male on the inside, I get that. Transtrenders are a whole different topic. I see them as the ones who take hormones then get off them only to say that they felt pressured into it. They need to put on their big boy britches and just admit that they made a mistake, correct the mistake, and move on. I don't like people who refuse to grasp the concept of personal responsibility.

I still have no idea what transtrenders is about.
I heard it about people taking homones for the matter of the look, but I mean, I also like the way I look on T, the mucles, the hair on my chin, less hips, (I do not however like the hair on my bag) for me starting or stopping T for that dose it make me transtrender?

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 03, 2013, 07:52:03 PM
Perhaps part of this feeling I get is because it seems relatively easy to obtain medical treatment for transitioning now. Even young people find boards like these and then they know the exact steps they need to take within a hour or two of surfing the web. I could go right out tomorrow and get on hormones. If I had about $6k laying around, I could schedule elective chest surgery. I think the main roadblocks now are not in finding treatment or information about it, it's affording treatment (although I've seen plenty of people say that T is "cheap"). Yet it seems thousands of people are well into the process.

T is not cheap if you ask me but it might depend on alot of things,
and I don't think that its nessesarry connected to how easy it is to get it its more the general-politic in the group I belive. like where I live it can for some be rather difficult to to get homones for other easy. there 2 groups one is for everyone being trans very mixed and there more into the politic that we must fight together, where the other group which also has difficult problems with transition belive its gonna be more harmfull to use energy on people who do not have the same goals as them. same place, same situation but diffrent ways of mindset.
---------
I often wonder how it would be to live somewhere where the gender norm is diffrent or not there. I dont think people wouldn't nessesarry transition if we had a genderless sociaty but I belive transition would be something less of a deal in a way. I think it might be more like getting your teeth or ears corrected.

reading your post I got to think of a small "note book thing" I once read.
its called body imposible body's or annoying bodys" its abit hard to translate.

its wrotte by some queeractivist people, who writte about gender and sexualety with alot of small or bigger quotes or idears.
I can try to translate it for you if you want.

There are folks who don't identify as trans guys who take T, usually in low doses. They really take it to feel that sense of being more comfortable in their skin. The thing is that you will get physical changes as the side effects are male secondary characteristics, which of course a lot of us want.
I know of people. A blog I really like is:
http://neutrois.me/
They seemed to have a sort of love-hate relationship to T. And went off and on to some extent. Now on.

uppercase chase on youtube seems to have a very non-binary brain and went for a long time off and on T. I know of several other non-binary guys on youtube--yanin bananin and videokidsam (the latter seemed to end up transitioning totally).

I don't use the term transtrenders. I'm sure they exist. But I do think there are many more non-binary people (I am to some extent, so perhaps I grasp it more) than most people think. I feel in some cases using the term can be stigmatizing to people who-- well this is how they are.
I think there is "pressure" but for the most part pressure exists outside of anybody's conscious control. You know in groups where a lot of guys are on T and talking about it, it feels attractive. I think that's the pressure. I'm not going to Not talk about it in group so someone doesn't feel this, but otoh, I understand everyone has their own path.

There may be risks to off/on T, so I am not necessarily advocating it.


--Jay

My question is - If you're not medically transitioning, what kind of support are you looking for?

FTM talk is for female bodied people who identify as male. No where in the description does it say we HAVE to be transitioning medically. Perhaps I'm just insensitive to what you're talking about because I am on T and do plan on having surgery(s). Perhaps because of that what you're trying to convey just isn't really registering with me. I'd really like to see your answer to my question.

Yes I'm sure that there's an undertone of pressure but I feel that it's a case of that what's outside coming inside.

I have this theory that people and their attitudes to gender roles has a direct relationship not just with culture but also with the state of the economy in their society. I feel that there's a greater degree of diversity accepted in times of economic prosperity whereas in times of economic recession diversity becomes rejected in favour of conformity to the two ideals of binary gender.

This is because (I feel) that despite our thinking that we live in democracy and freedom we are actually living under economic tyranny and dictatorship and the corporates in power get to influence our culture and thinking as much as religion, the government or media.

You can try doing a Google Images search for either 'masculinity' or 'femininity' and see what comes up. The vast majority of images will be Caucasian (despite the fact that the vast majority of people in the world aren't Caucasian).

Search for 'femininity' and you will find more Asian women than black women, and yet for 'masculinity' you will find more black guys than Asian guys.

I'm transitioning but don't have any issue with anyone who isn't. When dealing with people I tend to dig deeper and look for the human within, which I feel is a little deeper than the gender in which they present themselves.

Quote from: randomroads on August 04, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
My question is - If you're not medically transitioning, what kind of support are you looking for?

FTM talk is for female bodied people who identify as male. No where in the description does it say we HAVE to be transitioning medically. Perhaps I'm just insensitive to what you're talking about because I am on T and do plan on having surgery(s). Perhaps because of that what you're trying to convey just isn't really registering with me. I'd really like to see your answer to my question.

In answer to your question, support that doesn't always say, "well it will get better when you get on T". Everything seems to be geared towards that, even though people can acknowledge that "T isn't everything" or that you can be FTM/trans without medical transition.

The predominate forms of support in the FTM forums here seem to be a lot of talk about how much T will improve your life and body. If you can't take it (or have chosen not to, or have a long wait before you can take it), then the support should be more along the lines of what CAN you do to cope with the unique circumstance of your brain being one way and your body being another. Sure, there's a "do I pass" thread, but anyone who isn't on T gets similar advice (cut your hair short, wear male clothes, and "you'll look better once you get on T").

There's the workout thread, but I'm not sure how many people look at that. Working out can certainly be one thing to take your mind off of the issues or make you feel more confident in your own skin.

Basically, support that does not assume the person can or will be "getting on T" or having surgery, if it's not happening, or not happening for the foreseeable future. How does one who is male, but is "stuck" in an otherwise female body or has to deal as a female in society, cope?

Learning about socializing as male, or how to gain general confidence, or how to integrate male clothes into your wardrobe, how to minimize dysphoria ... there's tons of other things that could be helpful to people besides just talk of T all the time. That's all I'm getting at there.

I definitely feel the majority of people who identify as FTM will probably go on to medically transition and I certainly see the need of discussing the steps to obtain T, the effects, etc. etc. But even though there's a very small minority of people who will choose not to yet may still identify as male, there's a lot of people who could probably benefit from other forms of support until such a time when they can transition.

As a side note, social transition is something I feel deserves it's own focus. One of the main things that keeps me sane is that regardless of whether people see me as female, I still assert myself (for lack of a better way to put it) as male in society. I've seen it throw people off before, and I've also been able to fit in just fine with men while they're discussing various things (so much so that they completely disregard my gender - in other words, they're comfortable enough to do their regular man thing around me). I was lucky to have a lot of male interaction early in life when I was also taken as "one of them". I realize that for a lot of people they were totally socialized as female. My female socialization came later on, and was definitely more of an "act". I've seen posts here and there in these forums where someone is struggling with male socialization after they start transition. I think it would be a huge benefit to pick up some of it before starting on transition too. Something like that can definitely build confidence. 

Quote from: AlexanderC on August 04, 2013, 10:45:44 AM
The real reason I'm commenting on here is that I just wanted to say that you definitely do help other people, or at least you help me.  I know our situations are very different, but it's refreshing to see someone who has managed to live with not transitioning and seems to be leading a healthy life despite it all.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 04, 2013, 04:01:48 PM
The predominate forms of support in the FTM forums here seem to be a lot of talk about how much T will improve your life and body. If you can't take it (or have chosen not to, or have a long wait before you can take it), then the support should be more along the lines of what CAN you do to cope with the unique circumstance of your brain being one way and your body being another. Sure, there's a "do I pass" thread, but anyone who isn't on T gets similar advice (cut your hair short, wear male clothes, and "you'll look better once you get on T").

There's no reason not to start those threads and get the conversation going - I am sure lots of people would chime in

I agree with Spacerace, and I'm one of those people that doesn't ever assume someone's going to do medical transition. In fact, I don't think I ever really assume people are going to do anything, ever. It's why I never feel disappointed when people are morons. I didn't have an opinion of them to start with, so whats to be let down about?

So count me in for discussion if you want a level headed response from left field.

Quote from: randomroads on August 05, 2013, 07:42:05 PM
I agree with Spacerace, and I'm one of those people that doesn't ever assume someone's going to do medical transition. In fact, I don't think I ever really assume people are going to do anything, ever. It's why I never feel disappointed when people are morons. I didn't have an opinion of them to start with, so whats to be let down about?

So count me in for discussion if you want a level headed response from left field.

Cool.

it's also the reason why I used to hang around on the mtf forum alot because the talk with ftms can get alot on T-T-  and more testostorone at times and I feel mtfs forums is abit more social issues who dosen't invold homones as much,..

But I think its usefull to read what been wrotten.
being in my position im in, I feel I need to be carefull/focusing on how I put my advices.
I notice also from a previous group I once where a member of that alot of the advice where simple "you can get T here, go to this of there.."
even when many are desperate to know how or where to get homones and everything invold I do feel its important not just to hand out homones right away "here go adress 2001.. " its to take it invidually see what the person really wants or need, which may or may not be homones.

I'd probably participate to. I want to physically transition, but my brain seems to be pretty non-binary. I am not doing anything in my spare time differently. I have puppy and kitty jigsaws on my iPad and still like them.   I have no desire to be a manly man.


--Jay

I'd participate in these discussions, too. I may be "medically transitioning", but I don't intend on pulling out all the stops and getting every surgery possible. I want to present as male physically, but I see my gender as BOTH male and female at the same time. I never know how to explain this to someone, but it's not like bi-gender, where in some situations you're one and in some situations you're another, it's distinctly a feeling of being both genders at the same time. Then, it usually gets put under the "genderqueer" umbrella and I wish there was a more specific term for it.

Quote from: MrJ on August 07, 2013, 04:06:10 PM
I'd participate in these discussions, too. I may be "medically transitioning", but I don't intend on pulling out all the stops and getting every surgery possible. I want to present as male physically, but I see my gender as BOTH male and female at the same time. I never know how to explain this to someone, but it's not like bi-gender, where in some situations you're one and in some situations you're another, it's distinctly a feeling of being both genders at the same time. Then, it usually gets put under the "genderqueer" umbrella and I wish there was a more specific term for it.

I thought that's what androgyne was.